Freelancer wants an offer from me before I know what his flat rate charge will be

[d25adbe4]

Hello,

I'm new to Upwork, and I've been messaging with a freelancer for a book cover. I told him I'd want to know what his fee would be, and messaged him a book synopsis, my idea for a cover, back cover material, description of characters. He says I have to make him an offer, then he accepts it, and we need an Upwork contract before he can do any work. Is this usual, and how do I make him an offer if I have no idea what fee he wants? Also, he doesn't need to do any actual work at this point, just give me a price. As I said, I'm new here, so I don't know my way around. He seems like a good guy with mostly positive reviews.

[prestonhunter]

re: "Freelancer wants an offer from me before I know what his flat rate charge will be"

Freelancers may run their business and offer services how they want to.

As a client, you may choose who to hire, who to give your business to.

As a freelancer, I am in high demand and rarely accept new clients. It is extremely rare that I offer any sort of flat rate. Most people hire me and pay me by the hour. Many top freelancers work that way.

As a client, I have hired over 180 freelancers. About 95% of these were with HOURLY contracts. As a client, I care about my projects. I can get the best results for myself using hourly contracts.

Note that MANY ARTISTS work using fixed-price contracts. It is normal to do so. But most artists will also accept hourly contracts.

re: "He says I have to make him an offer, then he accepts it, and we need an Upwork contract before he can do any work. Is this usual, and how do I make him an offer if I have no idea what fee he wants? Also, he doesn't need to do any actual work at this point, just give me a price. As I said, I'm new here, so I don't know my way around. He seems like a good guy with mostly positive reviews."

Okay, so it sounds as if this freelancer may be willing to work on the project using a fixed-price contract.

He should do ONE OF TWO THINGS:

a) agree to work on the project only using an hourly contract.

[or]

b) TELL YOU the fixed-price quote based on the information you have provided him

Are you saying he wants YOU to tell him the offer?
That's pretty weird.

Honestly? I'm saying this as a client who has hired a LOT of artists on Upwork. (I have personally HIRED FREELANCERS TO CREATE BOOK COVERS.)

I don't have time for this. If this is what the freelancer is saying, I simply block him and hire other freelancers.

He IS CORRECT that a contract needs to be in place before he does any work.

But he should either tell you what his rate will be, or tell you he will only work on this using an hourly contract.

[d25adbe4]

Thanks for your reply, Preston. I'm in a rush this morning and can't go into detail, but I will have some questions and more info later in the day.

[prestonhunter]

re: "Thanks for your reply, Preston. I'm in a rush this morning and can't go into detail, but I will have some questions and more info later in the day."

I am only one person. I don't work for Upwork and I don't speak for anybody other than myself.

But I have commissioned a ton of artwork on Upwork.

So if you want to ask questions about this, I'm happy to answer based on my personal experiences.

Spoiler alert: I love commissioning artwork on Upwork. I have been very happy with the results.

Which should be obvious... I'm a repeat customer. I would not have hired over 100 artists on Upwork if I hated the results.

[d25adbe4]

"But he should either tell you what his rate will be, or tell you he will only work on this using an hourly contract."

Hello, again, Preston,

The freelancer said he wanted to know more about what I was looking for as a cover, and he could then do sketches. (I took this to mean he would do sketches before we had an agreement, so I'd have an idea of what I was getting. I understand now that is not allowed on Upwork.) I messaged him with my rough idea of the cover, a synopsis of the story, the back cover material, the ethnicity of the characters, and a scene from the book. He had previously said he could give me an estimate, but overlooked that. I waited a week for him to provide the estimate, and the sketches which I now understand would not be allowed under Upwork policy. I messaged him yesterday saying I hadn't heard back from him, so thought he decided against doing the job. He messaged me back in reply that I hadn't made him an offer. (I had no idea what his fee would be.) He then replied that he couldn't do any work because of Upwork policies. I know that now, but that wouldn't prevent him from giving me an estimate. He sent me an estimate this morning of eight to ten hours. He lists over a hundred jobs completed and more than fifty jobs in progress.

[prestonhunter]

Sounds like a serious freelancer.

By providing you an estimate of 8 to 10 hours after getting as much information as realistically possible from you, he is providing you with a ballpark figure about how much it will cost you. And he is indicating that he will do this using an hourly contract.

[d25adbe4]

Should I be concerned about his high number of jobs in progress? (It seems high to me, but I'm new to all this.)

[prestonhunter · Accepted solution]

re: "Should I be concerned about his high number of jobs in progress? (It seems high to me, but I'm new to all this.)"

He probably is simply not fastidious about closing jobs after work has been done on them.

He isn't actually working on 50 jobs at the same time.

If you hire him and he doesn't do any work on the project, you can simply hire somebody else. With an hourly contract, there is no cost to creating the contract. And you only pay for time worked. No up front fees or payments. So if he does zero work, you pay zero.

Based on my experience with artists, he's not going to start on it and then not finish it. If he starts on it, he'll finish it.

Having said all that, let me point out:
When I have a DEADLINE that I need work completed by, I always hire multiple artists to do the same work. That way if anybody fails to work, or fails to turn in work that I like, I still get what I need from the others.

[d25adbe4]

Thanks to Preston and all others who responded with your helpful comments. I will likely hire the freelancer, and thanks again to everyone.

[prestonhunter]

Also: Never assume that any one freelancer is the right person for the job.

If you hire an artist and don't like his work, it doesn't mean that you are "wrong."

When I commission artwork on Upwork, I routinely hire 2 to 5 artists to do the exact same task. And I don't tell them that I'm hiring other people. Then I end up with more than one option to choose from. And I own all of the work I paid them to create, so I can do whatever I want with it.

[48757dcb]

Are you a freelancer?

[prestonhunter]

re: "Are you a freelancer?"

I am a freelancer who has completed hundreds of jobs on Upwork.

And who also uses Upwork as a client.

I have hired over 180 freelancers on Upwork. Over half of those have been artists.

[bobafett999]

Many artist freelancers are reluctant quote a fixed price.  Buyers believe that they have the freelancer for life at that price.  They keep on asking revisions after revisions.

And many freelancers are dumb that they do not specify how many revisions they would do or they are afraid that they would not get the gig if they are too specific

[prestonhunter]

Here is my general philosphy (not saying this applies to EVERYBODY):

Fixed-price contract: Zero revisions. The task is done when the freelancer says it is done.

If a client wants revisions, that's what an hourly contract is for.

[2f863be5]

I totally understand you. The freelancer should give you an estimate of what he's charging. This helps you know if it fits into your budget or not.

If the job is still open, I'm available to take on writing offers at the moment.

Thanks

[bobafett999]

Dear Nancy read the first post carefully.

[msimon_pm]

I don't know the marketplace, but messaging about contracts - both fixed and hourly - supposed to be available only after an  old/completed contract, an invite to a posted job (impossible without price), or  an already submitted offer

[d25adbe4]

I'd like to thank everyone who replied to my original post as an ignoramus. Have to start someplace, I guess.

[bobafett999]

Good luck