Oct 6, 2018 06:39:33 AM by Jan Q
Hi
I have just had my recent translation sent back with a version attached from diff checker. Anything that doesn't correspond with the diff checker versions is marked as error!!! This was subtitling work and my texts have the same meaning but are expressed differently and I am quite satisfied with it.
Would it be possible for someone to take a quick look at my work please and give their opinion?
I would be grateful for any help.Thanks Jan
Oct 6, 2018 08:54:16 AM by Preston H
re: "Would it be possible for someone to take a quick look at my work please and give their opinion?"
You can hire somebody to do that, yes.
Just go to http://www.upwork.com and post a job describing what it is that you want somebody to do.
This is a relatively small task and you could easily find any number of qualified professionals to do this at an affordable price. Hire 3 different people and you will be more confident in the answers and reports that you receive.
Oct 6, 2018 08:55:54 AM by Martina P
@Jan Q wrote:Hi
I have just had my recent translation sent back with a version attached from diff checker. Anything that doesn't correspond with the diff checker versions is marked as error!!! This was subtitling work and my texts have the same meaning but are expressed differently and I am quite satisfied with it.
Would it be possible for someone to take a quick look at my work please and give their opinion?
I would be grateful for any help.Thanks Jan
No offense, but it is a bit much to ask freelancers to do work for free, work that they are paid for on this platform, as it is their business.
And even if somebody did check your work, how would that help you?
Your client is unhappy with your work, and not some other upwork freelancer's.
The person to discuss that is your client, so I suggest you do that in a very professional manner. To have translation proofread by another person is just good business practice, and should be expected. You are expected to give your opinion on the result, that is really not anything that is out of the ordinary.
Oct 6, 2018 01:14:35 PM Edited Oct 6, 2018 01:20:50 PM by Nichola L
@Jan Q wrote:Hi
I have just had my recent translation sent back with a version attached from diff checker. Anything that doesn't correspond with the diff checker versions is marked as error!!! This was subtitling work and my texts have the same meaning but are expressed differently and I am quite satisfied with it.
Would it be possible for someone to take a quick look at my work please and give their opinion?
I would be grateful for any help.Thanks Jan
____________________
Jan,
I have just sent you a private message. There are quite a few of us with the same saint but in different parts of France! I'd be happy to help you. (If you are in the same part as me, we could meet up.)
ETA: Happy to help even if you are not in the same area!
Oct 6, 2018 10:24:45 PM by Richard W
Jan, I'm confused. What text was yours diff-checked against? Another translator's? Why would anyone expect two translators to produce the same text? Did your client say what they expect you to do with this diff check?
Oct 7, 2018 06:51:17 AM by Jan Q
Hi Thanks for your reply.
I'm sorry , I was confused myself yesterday.
I was sent my text with the revised text from a proof reader on diff checker. It showed 60 differences which my client assumes are my mistakes.
Just two examples for you ( this is from a video of young people talking casually about their experiences at a bootcamp)
I translated as ex-student - the proof reader reader changed to alumni
I wrote product manager ( not as a title) - the proof reader changed to Product Manager.
Of course I put in capitals when used as a title.
And so on and so on.
60 changes to my text when the meaning is exactly the same but just expressed slightly differently but not incorrectly.
Therefore I am wrong and the proof reader is right. I have no idea if they even watched the video which set the tone of the conversation.
So, I just wondered yesterday if anyone could take a look at the two versions ( which would only have taken one minute) to show how ridiculous this is and how unfair, as my work now looks as if it has 60 errors when this is not the case.
My client asked me to redo the other files based on the proofreaders 'findings' but I will refuse and forgo my payment. I will also send my client proof that the 'mistakes' are not actually mistakes but who can go against a proofreader?
Sorry to be so longwinded but now I realise there is nothing to be done and I have lost a client who now clearly thinks I have wrongly translated the texts. regards Jan
Oct 7, 2018 07:59:16 AM Edited Oct 7, 2018 08:00:35 AM by Nichola L
@Jan Q wrote:Hi Thanks for your reply.
I'm sorry , I was confused myself yesterday.
I was sent my text with the revised text from a proof reader on diff checker. It showed 60 differences which my client assumes are my mistakes.
Just two examples for you ( this is from a video of young people talking casually about their experiences at a bootcamp)
I translated as ex-student - the proof reader reader changed to alumni
I wrote product manager ( not as a title) - the proof reader changed to Product Manager.
Of course I put in capitals when used as a title.
And so on and so on.
60 changes to my text when the meaning is exactly the same but just expressed slightly differently but not incorrectly.
Therefore I am wrong and the proof reader is right. I have no idea if they even watched the video which set the tone of the conversation.
So, I just wondered yesterday if anyone could take a look at the two versions ( which would only have taken one minute) to show how ridiculous this is and how unfair, as my work now looks as if it has 60 errors when this is not the case.
My client asked me to redo the other files based on the proofreaders 'findings' but I will refuse and forgo my payment. I will also send my client proof that the 'mistakes' are not actually mistakes but who can go against a proofreader?
Sorry to be so longwinded but now I realise there is nothing to be done and I have lost a client who now clearly thinks I have wrongly translated the texts. regards Jan
____________________________________
Jan,
IMO your client needs to change their proofreader. I don't know what context "ex-student" is, but if it is singular it would not be alumni but alumnus - it is also rather formal. As to product manager, you are absolutely correct. It is not capitalized, unless it is part of the title - and even then it would depend on the context. And by the way, this is not a proofreader's role. Proofreaders (simplistically put) catch typos, inconsistencies , spelling errors, cross-check etc. They should not change text unless there is a glaring error, and even then, they should question it rather than changing it.
It is normal for some translation work to be proofread.I had a similar experience the other day, and just agreed with all the changes - but they were good and enhanced the translation. However, I'm not quite sure how you can cope with this situation. My gut feeling is that you are better off without this client. This sort of nitpicking would drive me nuts after a while.
Oct 7, 2018 09:52:27 AM by Jan Q
Hi, Thank you, exactly!!!
A few other examples of changes made
hyper analytical to very analytical
iteration and formula to iteration and recipe ( the subject is technology)
to check if it responds to the initial need to to check if it meets the initial need
and many more such as this.
I can laugh about it today but my client now thinks that I made tons of mistakes in the translation, how can he know that the changes were not necessary and in some cases just wrong?
Oh well, such is life!
Thanks again for your reply
regards
Jan
Oct 7, 2018 10:22:08 AM by Jan Q
ps It was plural
created by two ex-students of Wagon changed to created by two Le Wagon alumnis !!!!
Oct 7, 2018 11:45:05 PM by Petra R
@Jan Q wrote:ps It was plural
created by two ex-students of Wagon changed to created by two Le Wagon alumnis !!!!
No such word as alumnis
alumnus (singular)
alumni (plural)
Oct 8, 2018 01:07:40 AM by Jan Q
Hi, yes I know,
I chose ex-students because it was more fitting to the relaxed manner of the video but the proofreader has decided to change it to alumnis ( amongst a multitude of other changes to my text) . I welcome any valid corrections (especially punctuation) but never mind.
Thanks for your reply
regards Jan
Oct 7, 2018 08:38:28 AM by Richard W
@Jan Q wrote:
My client asked me to redo the other files based on the proofreaders 'findings' but I will refuse and forgo my payment. I will also send my client proof that the 'mistakes' are not actually mistakes but who can go against a proofreader?
Sorry to be so longwinded but now I realise there is nothing to be done and I have lost a client who now clearly thinks I have wrongly translated the texts. regards Jan
If you're confident that your version is correct, stand your ground. Convince your client that you're the professional, and you know what you're talking about. (I know that's easier said than done, but I would try.) Perhaps this proofreader is an amateur who the client just found on Upwork and has no reason to trust over you.
Oct 8, 2018 01:46:34 PM by Preston H
I agree... Your best bet is to convince the client that you are a professional and that the proofreader she is using will undermine her product and waste time. Encourage her to use a proofreader - better one.
Oct 9, 2018 04:40:28 AM by Nicola P
Hi Jan,
proofreaders have just this bad attitude, they always change random words just to show they have worked, even if the words are synonyms. And this looks like the translator has done a mistake (or many) to someone not understanding the source language, the target language, or both.
There is even a platform online where you can find translation jobs, that gives you a score after a translation, depending on the modifications made by the proofreader. The proofreaders are also translators, so they basically correct anything they want, they lower your score as a translator, and they get the high paying jobs because nobody checks their work.
Some time ago, I have translated into Italian a product listing for Amazon, this was a set of tools used to prepare cocktails. I have been a professional barman for 20 years, so I perfectly know all recipes, tools, and specific jargon. Well, the client came back with my translation proofread and it was awful, everything was changed and so wrong. I told this client about my story as a barman, I suggested to discard that proofread version and just to use my original copy. Now, which one do you think is live on Amazon? Exactly, the proofread one! And this "proofreader", of course, translated all other products for this client obviously using Google Translate for maybe $0.01 per word.
I have a template about this issue, I send this to clients sending back my translations proofread by dishonest proofreaders. I simply explain that in Italian you can say the same thing maybe in 10 different ways (and I am not joking about this!) but the meaning is the same, and that's why I will reject most of the suggested changes.
Oct 9, 2018 05:04:28 AM by Nichola L
@ Nicola,
Wow! That is a horrible story! But what a good idea to warn clients.
Oct 9, 2018 06:33:15 AM Edited Oct 9, 2018 06:33:34 AM by Rene K
@Nicola P wrote:Hi Jan,
proofreaders have just this bad attitude,
Either you forgot to add the word some at the beginning of your sentence or you are dealing with cheap clients.
Professional proofreaders, just like professional translators, don't not engage into this kind of shenanigans.
Oct 12, 2018 02:48:38 PM by Nicola P
@Rene K wrote:
@Nicola P wrote:Hi Jan,
proofreaders have just this bad attitude,
Either you forgot to add the word some at the beginning of your sentence or you are dealing with cheap clients.
Professional proofreaders, just like professional translators, don't not engage into this kind of shenanigans.
Yeah, some of them and not all of them, luckily. But still too many 🙂
Oct 9, 2018 11:46:44 AM by Jan Q
Hi
Thank you for your input. Sorry to hear about your experience. I think that I have been lucky until now!
I'm sure that most proofreaders are not like this however. What I have realised is that translators are accountable for the errors that they make and quite right too. It seems that proofreaders are not. A foreign client can not pick up the unnecessary or wrong changes made to the texts and the translators suffer the consequences.
This was why I contacted the forum because I did not know how to handle the situation.
I feel genuinely sorry for my client because we had a good relationship before this. I have tried to give examples where the proofreader changed correct text into incorrect text etc but he is a busy man and doesn't want to be in this position, he just wants to get on with his job.
However, there has been no further talk of me redoing the files. What concerns me is the evaluation that I may receive based on the proofreader's findings.
Thanks again
Jan
Oct 9, 2018 11:54:30 AM by Nichola L
@Jan Q wrote:Hi
Thank you for your input. Sorry to hear about your experience. I think that I have been lucky until now!
I'm sure that most proofreaders are not like this however. What I have realised is that translators are accountable for the errors that they make and quite right too. It seems that proofreaders are not. A foreign client can not pick up the unnecessary or wrong changes made to the texts and the translators suffer the consequences.
This was why I contacted the forum because I did not know how to handle the situation.
I feel genuinely sorry for my client because we had a good relationship before this. I have tried to give examples where the proofreader changed correct text into incorrect text etc but he is a busy man and doesn't want to be in this position, he just wants to get on with his job.
However, there has been no further talk of me redoing the files. What concerns me is the evaluation that I may receive based on the proofreader's findings.
Thanks again
Jan
________________________
I fear you are likely to be zapped on this one. However, when the contract ends, I think you should leave appropriate feedback too. Don't rant (or write a long screed) but don't play Mrs Nice either. I think you could point out the pitfalls of hiring non-proofreaders - with the alumni example.
Feb 28, 2022 05:47:54 AM Edited Feb 28, 2022 05:49:37 AM by Alexandra H
Proofreaders/Editors are accountable! Of course they are! And if they're professionals, they'll even explain the changes they make to the translation part of your text (i.e. the "review" or "sign-off", not the simple spelling mistakes) or they'll consult with you (e.g. to discover your motivation for using a particular term).
You were unfortunate this time, but don't let it get you down. As stated by others in this thread, your best option is to review your own work and determine for yourself, whether your choices were correct and/or appropriate. If they were, then you have nothing to worry about. If there are differences of opinion, you have nothing to worry about. (Any translator worth his salt knows that translations vary.) Decide on how much you want to involve the client in the process and whether "standing your ground" is worth it. (Don't forget to weigh up the cost of writing extra documentation and messages.) Move on. You'll laugh about it one day.
PS: Count yourself lucky that you don't have to sit next to me watching a translated TV show. I "correct" inappropriate choices all the time.
Feb 28, 2022 06:02:21 AM Edited Feb 28, 2022 06:13:09 AM by Cristina L
Hi,
I actually think that there are so many ways to translate, that no 2 translations are alike.
When proofreading I always request the original. I will only change a translation if it's really out of context... I look for grammar and typos.
I've worked on proofreading often and it's not easy. However sometimes an extra pair of eyes is very important.
Best of luck,
Cristina
Oct 16, 2018 11:22:19 AM by Juan Pablo S
Run a DQF and say whether they are preferential or not. Many times revisers just want to get translators so that they can keep the clients. Sorry to hear about this.
Nov 27, 2021 02:32:15 PM by Cristina L
Hi,
Hope your well.
I'm sorry that you had such a terrible experience.
However, I'm a translator and proofreader and have proofread some work. A good proofreader will actually have to translate as well. This is done by me, but I don't change the context unless it's absolutely unacceptable.
I mostly change typo mistakes, formatting and grammar. Many people translate without checking that the grammar is correct.
So please talk to your client and ask him to have another proofreader to check both translations.
Best of luck,