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Re: We Are the Customer. We are Your Boss. Please do not let us Fire You!

Community Guru
Joachim M Member Since: Mar 23, 2015
61 of 118

@Jennifer D wrote:

 

I'm more concerned about the freelancer fees, because I'm worried that my freelancers are going to leave. The nature of the work I use Upwork for (translation) means I have long-term, ongoing relationships with nearly all of my freelancers, so they're all over the $500 lifetime spending mark (and some are over $10,000)..


 Jennifer,

 

I doubt you need to be afraid of the freelancers leaving. Most freelances work on several sites anyway. Especially in translations there simply are not enough jobs posted on Upwork to make a living. I myself do English into German translations and after the forced move to Upwork I make half of what I earned on Elance.  My earnings on Upwork don't even represent a quarter of my total earnings. 

Active Member
Asad A Member Since: May 5, 2016
62 of 118

We are a client, and just ended our regular contract with a contractor. We had already surpassed the $500 payment threshhold a while ago to stay at 10%, however the payment fee is just ridiculous. I get it if I was paying via credit card, but if I am paying via bank deposit through ach, there is no reason for there to be a fee.

 

So we have switched to a competing freelance site. Yes, the exodus has begun.

Active Member
graham y Member Since: Nov 4, 2015
63 of 118

We Are the Customer.  We are Your Boss.  Without the Customer Upwork does NOT Exist.  The previous Email clearly confused the 2 roles.

 

BUT lets give Upwork a chance.  Many people are leaving out of emotion without waiting for a response.  I am going to stop working with my Freelancer's until we have an answer.  I have never had a problem with Upwork until now.  I do not think many CEO's get very far if they are not able to forget about their pride and come to an agreement with the customer, especially after reading what everyone is saying.  

 

Our companies new budget for next quarter has changed to the benefit of Upwork.  $16,000 June - September with a $6,000 increase each quarter for the year - $66,000 total - not a lot for Uprwork's total yearly revenue but $66,000 is much better then $0.

 

I am hoping to have a revised Email with a fair payment structure or at least a detailed reason to justifying this sudden exaggerated price increase.  

 

Regards

Graham Lee Young
PERU › COSTA RICA › PANAMA › USA
Community Guru
Scott E Member Since: Jul 26, 2015
64 of 118

Without Upwork, Upwork customers don't exist. So I'd say it's more of a symbiotic relationship if anything. We're definitely not Upwork's boss!

"Welcome, humans. I'm ready for you!"
- Box, Logan's Run (1976)
Active Member
graham y Member Since: Nov 4, 2015
65 of 118

Upwork Customers have the choice of leaving and going to the competition.    If enough go, Upwork goes out of business and they cease to exist as a company as we, the customer are their source of revenue.  This is a common phrase in business as it is true.  That is the great thing about free market!  I 100% admit my customers are my boss and I love it!  

 

Upwork has the power to delete our accounts - but again they are deleting their source of revenue instead of solving the problem.  I am assuming you are being somewhat sarcastic about the actual name "Upwork Customer".  Well you are right about that - the customer - or boss - would have a different name - "xyz company customer", but Upwork would not exist.

 

Anyways I think we are ahead of ourselves.  I am going to give Upwork a chance to redeem themselves before I make the decision for our company to make the move.  

 

 

 

 

 

Graham Lee Young
PERU › COSTA RICA › PANAMA › USA
Community Guru
Joachim M Member Since: Mar 23, 2015
66 of 118

@graham y wrote:

We Are the Customer.  We are Your Boss.  Without the Customer Upwork does NOT Exist.  The previous Email clearly confused the 2 roles.

 

 


 Graham,

 

In my understanding a customer is the person paying for the service provided. Up to now only the freelancers paid for the service with 

 

- a 10% commission on their earnings

- a monthly fee if they have a paid for account

- a fee of $1 per additional connect, they need 2 connects ($2) just to prepare a proposal

 

No, you are not Upwork's customer. You are the freelancers' customer and the freelancer is Upwork's customer.

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Active Member
graham y Member Since: Nov 4, 2015
67 of 118

Joachim, 

 

You are completely misunderstanding the point of the message.

 

I am looking at it from a client's point of view and you are looking at it from a freelancer's point of view.    

 

You did forget to add that the clients pay the freelancers....which then pay Upwork the commission.  I am 100% on the Freelancer's side but the money you are making that enables you to give Upwork a commission is coming from the clients.  If its not then you are losing money and not quite sure why you would waste your time.  

 

Either way WE are the customers.  You can word it any way you would like, but the point is Upwork is taking advantage of us and if something doesn't change both the freelancers and clients will simply leave.  

 

I have seen posts that most of Upwork's competitions have similar fees and everyone should stop complaining.  A key point Upwork is missing is how this statement actually makes a lot of people think the opposite.  I know for a fact there are at least 3 people currently workng on another site (I am NOT one of those 3+ people so don't put me in the middle of it!).  If I am aware of 3 people I can not begin to think of the actual number of people who saw this crazy raised rate as an opportunity! 

 

It will be interesting to see if these developers continue to work on their new sites if Upwork does decide to listen to their customers.  That will at least prove to me that Upwork cares and actually reading these posts.  You never know, we could be all wrong - Upwork could just start making a ton of money and people will be too afaid to switch.  I am sure they did at least a little research....   

 

 

 

 

Graham Lee Young
PERU › COSTA RICA › PANAMA › USA
Community Guru
Joachim M Member Since: Mar 23, 2015
68 of 118

Graham,

 

I understood what you were saying very well. It still remains the fact, that the freelancers are paying Upwork out of their earnings. Hence from a sales point of view, strictly speaking, you are consumer on Upwork and the freelancer the customer. From a freelancer's point of view you are the customer. Naturally, in the end you pay as the freelancer has to incorporate the fees into his price. It also clear that Upwork needs both, the freelancer and the clients.

 

With regards to other sites, I work on 3 other sites besides Upwork. I see many of my competitors also working on these other sites, I also see a job postings being published here and on other sites at the same time, mostly it's PPH and Upwork showing the same job posts. The main problem the other sites are having is that they don't attract enough clients for the freelancers. It is also pretty clear that many freelancers will have to raise their prices so at least part of Upwork's raise in commissions will hit you too.

 

At the end of the day I don't think the freelancers really care where their clients find them or where they find the clients. As, at the time of writing the proposal, most sites keep the client secret (Upwork being strictest in this) we as freelancers don't even know the client until the order is finalised, often even not then. 

Active Member
Thanh N Member Since: May 5, 2016
69 of 118

Let's look at the pricing policy of some big companies:

 

Ebay never charges buyers to buy products on its website. In addition, Ebay only charges sellers 10% to sell products on its website.  Certainly, we all know that Ebay has always been a very successful and profitable business for a long time. One of the main reasons for their success is that they keep the fees low and reduce the cost for both buyers and sellers.

 

Upwork is tring to find many funny excuses justify the new clients' fee (2.75%), and freelancers' fee (20%).  That is so unreasonble.  

 

I know that Upwork moderators will argue that Ebay and Upwork are in a 2 different types of business.  

 

But, my point is that Ebay is a HUGE (GIANT) company and they intentionally keep their fees low because they know that this is a the BEST strategy to grow their business and be successful.  Keeping the cost or fees low for buyers and sellers if Ebay's BEST business strategy.  

 

For now, Upwork is unfortunately following the business model of other freelance competitors, which is to increase the fees. This may work in the short term for Upwork. But, in the long run, some new freelance websites with a low cost/fee business model, will be launched and will attract most clients/freelancers.

 

Community Guru
Jennifer D Member Since: Feb 15, 2016
70 of 118

Like I've said elsewhere, 2 of my 13 active freelancer relationships are over $10,000. So there's definitely relationships like that around.

 

And comparing to eBay is pointless because they're completely different business models. Better to compare to a rival company in the same industry. The first comparison I made showed that Upwork's biggest competitor charges both Freelancers AND clients a percentage fee of every job, and also charges clients a payment processing fee...And also has extra fees for a bunch of other things as well. So it looks to me like Upwork is simply bringing themselves in line with the industry. Which still sucks for those of us who were enjoying their previous fee structure, but if it's industry standard then where are all these people saying they're leaving going to go? 

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