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Expert and entry level *

puicolorat
Ace Contributor
Andreea B Member Since: Nov 1, 2014
11 of 29

@Rene K wrote:

This categorisation may not be that useful, generally speaking, but I definitely see one label that serves a purpose: Entry level.

 

That one at least makes things clear: they want the cheapest possible and they make it straight clear.

 

Entry level makes it easy to skim through job posts. That ones at least, you know you won't be interested in, and you don't need to waste your time reading them.


 Yes, correct. At least they are useful for that. Perhaps keeping only that one? and have the clients check that if they are sure they want a beginner.

 


@Jennifer D wrote:

Dollar values are also no use because who would determine them? There's too many variables to work that out.


 I was thinking it more in the idea that they can say something like.. I am looking for someone who works in this price range. Agreed, there's probably a better way to do it, but I wish Upwork would use all the moneyz they get to actually research and improve the job posting process. Don't even get me started on the "I need a website. More details upon application." types of jobs. Man Sad If at least we would get our connects back when realizing it's a bad match I wouldn't have any problems with it. It's not the case though.

 

Unrelated, I find it funny that my title got edited. Apparently they don't like bovines Man LOL LOL

pandoraharper
Community Guru
Pandora H Member Since: May 11, 2010
12 of 29

I was filtering out Entry Level jobs, but realized that my prefered clients often have no idea what they are doing and they list a job for my pay rate and general experience level, but mark it Entry Level.

 

On a personal note, I have never chosen a level of expertise. I'm terrified that choosing one will affect the rate of invites that come my way. Not that I get many. Not to mention, do clients actually use the expertise level when searching for freelancers?

 

Now that I have several years of PM experince behind me, I think clients needing PM's just post public jobs because they are too busy to search.

jenourno
Ace Contributor
Jenna V Member Since: May 24, 2017
13 of 29

I absolutely agree with this. When someone lists their job as entry level work, are they actually wanting a good job? Or are they paying less for a lower quality product that still needs fine-tuning.  It's a hard one. I bet they still want a premium product, but for a low price. To be honest, I take on a mixture of both. Of course, I don't lower my standards but sometimes I just like the look of the job and the deadline is flexible. Gap filler work is pretty good to have. 

 

There was one case where I declined the opportunity to continue work with a client, purely because the time taken to complete the job far outweighed the benefits. He was really good about it, and we did have a good working relationship. He said the rate used to be far higher, but the work quality was poor. This meant he was having to hire someone else to edit the work properly and it ended up being a huge investment. So, he lowered the rate in order to make it more cost-effective. This is fair and I could completely understand this. 

Fortunately, so many clients still see the benefits of paying for someone who has more experience. 

 

Maybe they could still keep entry, intermediate and expert, but specify a "recommended hourly/word rate" for each (depending on the line of work, of course). This could give the clients a good indication of what's a fair rate for the work completed. 

 

 

 

 

petra_r
Community Guru
Petra R Member Since: Aug 3, 2011
14 of 29

@jenna V wrote:

Maybe they could still keep entry, intermediate and expert, but specify a "recommended hourly/word rate" for each (depending on the line of work, of course).


 This already exists (for hourly, not "per word" which would be impossible considering the majority of jobs aren't per word and even with those that are it#s not feasible)

 

for example:

 

rates data entry.jpg

rates mobile development.jpg

florencew
Ace Contributor
Florence W Member Since: Mar 26, 2017
15 of 29

So, what I'm gathering from this discussion is to not be bothered with entry level at all, IF you cannot afford to live on >$7 per hour (chart is different than the one posted here), regardless of whether you are a "Rising Star" or at at higher level.   I have been trying to work on here since the spring - various situations have arisen that didn't keep me consistent (very serious situations).  I'm finally "on my feet" again and have been much more consistent over the past week or two and getting nothing.  I have one consistent 3 hour per week job, but other than that, nothing.  I thought maybe being a "Rising Star" I should just look at expert level, got nothing. I keep my rate at about 14 an hour, sometimes dropping to 12.50 if it looks like a fairly simple job.  I don't think my test scores are too shabby and my profile isn't horrendous.   Maybe I should filter for entry AND intermediate.   It's frustrating to say the least.

prestonhunter
Community Guru
Preston H Member Since: Nov 24, 2014
16 of 29

re: "So, what I'm gathering from this discussion is to not be bothered with entry level at all, IF you cannot afford to live on >$7 per hour"

 

No.

It has nothing to do with what you can or cannot afford to live on.

 

It has to do with what you're worth.

 

If you're an heiress with a billion dollars in the bank and you live in the country with the lowest cost of living anywhere in the world, then you don't really need any money at all, right? But if your graphic design is TO DIE FOR AMAZING, then you should charge an arm and a leg for it. Because that's what your work is worth.

 

If you have $67,000 in student loans and you live in the most expensive part of Manhattan and you care for three sick dogs whose medical expenses come to $4,500 per month, and you write blog entries about hair care products, but your writing is really derivative and your English writing skills are pretty bad because you grew up in Nonenglishovia, then MAYBE you should charge $3.50/hour (but more realistically, you should charge $3.00/hr), because that's what your work is worth.

florencew
Ace Contributor
Florence W Member Since: Mar 26, 2017
17 of 29

I get what you are saying.  But isn't there kind of a balancing act when you first start out, when you have hardly any hours, and not much of rating to show, where you have to compromise a little on price first.  Sure I'd like to charge $20 an hour, like I was getting at my last full time "on-site" job or charge even  more, but if I'm not getting any interest now from people, what would make me think I would get interest at $20 an hour, even if I think I'm worth $20.  

 

I find it hard to stand on principle, when I would like to get jobs here, show an accumulation of hours worked and get some kind of positive feed back, so I can justify increasing my rate some time down the road.

prestonhunter
Community Guru
Preston H Member Since: Nov 24, 2014
18 of 29

Florence, yes, I completely agree.

 

It makes sense to compromise on rate in order to get started. But that is not associated with the cost of living.

 

A sensible approach is to "get your foot in the door" using fixed-price contracts, because no hourly rate is attached to them.

 

You can offer fixed-price quotes lower than you plan to offer in the future if it will help you get hired. That won't associate your profile with a low hourly rate. With successful jobs in your work history, you will be more marketable and can then get hired for hourly jobs at good rates.

florencew
Ace Contributor
Florence W Member Since: Mar 26, 2017
19 of 29

Interesting ... thank you for the tip.  I appreciate the input very much.

yitwail
Community Guru
John K Member Since: Feb 17, 2015
20 of 29

Florence, I looked over your profile and couldn't help noticing that you portfolio consists entirely of graphics work, which you're obviously proficient at.  So it wouldn't hurt to add Photoshop to your list of skills. You already have an impressive list of test scores, but you might also consider taking a Photoshop test. Lastly, it appears you haven't set a profile title, which I always assumed was required, but apparently not -- something like Virtual Assistant, billing, and image editing perhaps?

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