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69a52193
Community Member

Beware of Freelancers Stealing Jobs and Not Paying You

I've been working on Upwork for a while now, but today I had a very interestingly horrible situation!

A client asked me to optimize his Youtube video for SEO. He bargained to get the lowest price because it's a test video. I agreed.

Then sent an hourly offer but blocked manual hours entry! I didn't pay attention to that part at first!

AFter submitting my work, he refused to pay me and said he didn't agree on the hours of work!!

I looked him up on the freelancer side of Upwork and aparently he is a freelancer that charges $95/hr for the same job he asked me to do! And he bargained to reduce my rate to only $5/hr!!! and didn't even pay it!

 

Be careful everyone! I just want to let you all know that such people exist here and Upwork is not doing anything about it.

14 REPLIES 14
prestonhunter
Community Member

re: "Beware of Freelancers Stealing Jobs and Not Paying You"

 

Freelancers aren't supposed to pay you. Clients pay you.

 

If you are a freelancer, then you determine your rates. If your rate is $5/hour, that is your choice. It does not matter to you if the client who hired you makes money off of your labor.

 

What if you found out that for every hour a client pays you, he loses $50 more dollars than he pays you? Will you pitch in and pay him more money?

 

I know that you are feeling frustrated right now, but you need to focus on the right things. Focus on your situation with your client. Don't focus on how much your client pays for health insurance or what his mortgage payments are like or how much money he makes.

 

If you worked on a contract without logging your time properly, while planning to log time manually, only to find that the contract does not allow manually logged time, then you made a mistake. If the client did not pay you, then he broke no rules.

pgiambalvo
Community Member

Terrible. Report him and hopefully Upwork will ban him, although technically, I don't think he violated any rules. BUT people like this drive down the rates for all other freelancers, plus clog up the feeds with posts that are basically repeats of others. Same for agencies, IMO. Farming should not be allowed here.

Not true! That guy drives rates up, not down: $95 an hour is a very respectable rate for any kind of Upwork job. And the $5 an hour job he created won't even exist if he didn't sell the $95 an hour one to his client FIRST. And i really doubt a client expected to pay that much. That guy is certainly as good at upselling his hours as he is at bargaining down the hours he buys. So i can't tell he's doing any harm to the marketplace, quite the contrary.

 

What do you mean by "farming"? If you mean project flippers, then this is explicitly allowed and for a good reason: they drive the price up, because in order to be able to operate, they have to be very good at sales,

Even if all this were true, which I don't belive is,  then would you object to the person accepting the initial job being required to inform the original client that they will accept it at that rate, but will be hiring someone else to actually do the work for a much lower rate? And as for being good at sales, if I posted a job looking for a writer, I'd want to hire someone who was good at writing, not good at sales or finding people to exploit who are willing to work for low rates.

I disagree. How did you come to the conclusion that such behavior benefits freelancers? It certainly doesn't benefit the person doing the actual work, not to the tune the "farmer/flipper/whatever" is raking in through deception. If I hire a skilled person, I do not want someone else doing the work.

 

How is accepting a job and then having someone else do the work without informing the client ethical? Just because you can do something doesn't make it ethical, right, or even legal. The "farmer" is intent on hiding the facts; why? Because they know quite well, it will anger the clients who will go elsewhere.          

 

The "farmer" can form an agency or be ethical and honest about having others do the work. In any other business, this can bring big trouble. And what of the "farmee"? Not only are they doing the work for far less than they should receive, but they also have no history. If they switch to being a freelancer in their name, they have no profile.

 

Also, how are the payments arranged? One "farmer," told me she paid them under the table, and no one knows.

 

I have encountered several "farmers"; all three were using people in countries outside the U.S. where the income level is very low. Rather like colonization through the Internet. The "farmers" don't want partners or an agency; they want cheap labor. Attempts at justification by saying it helps the poor freelancer by giving them pennies fall far short. The "farmee" may not be locked in the factory, but a sweat shop it remains.

 

If playing bait and switch with clients is a great idea, why do the "farmers" never tell what they are doing? These kinds of practices harm the reputation of freelancers and the platform. If you are not doing the work, it is, at the least, highly unethical, and I will never work with or recommend anyone who uses deceptive practices.

 

 

The only part of this which i agree to, is that if the project is hourly, the "farmer" certainly breaks Upwork ToS. That's a big no no. Other than that, this is both ethical and is in general how agencies work: someone presentable, close to the client and speaking the same language with them both literally and socially, takes the contract, then hires someone in the right place for the right amount, to do it.

What prevents the "farmee" from getting the original job themselves?This same factor or factors enable the "farmer". After all, this is Upwork not say, some corrupt government procurement scheme where only the "right" people are allowed into. Everybody sees the same job feed. Everybody can bid on it.

Again, I ask, if this is so ethical and such a fantastic idea and raises the pay for everyone, why do the freelancer farmers not tell the truth about their practices?

How can you know they don't? Also, they may not tell because they see what they do as a scam. But again, this is a scam for clients. For other freelancers, it's not.

Actually, many agencies start as "farmers" because owners simply can't psychologically get over the need to explain clients they have a team, they suffer from impostor syndrome and believe they are not worth the money they are making or position they are taking. Usually when these people get over it, literally nothing changes.

Clients don't give a **bleep** about working with a freelancer or an agency. Those few who do are the worst clients out there, anyway, and should be avoided by both freelancers and agencies.

martina_plaschka
Community Member

If you had used the time tracker properly (not manual hours!) you would have been paid. Don't use manual hours. Avoid clients who want you to use manual hours. 

This client actually helped you by disabling manual hours. He had every intention to pay you. 

There is nothing wrong with being subcontracted by another freelancer-client. 

I disagree with this generalised approach regarding logging hours.

I have never used the time tracker (never will) and was paid by every client for every hour I entered manually (>600).

Upwork's payment protection isn't the be-all and end-all, properly vetting clients goes a long way towards getting paid for your work.

 

colettelewis
Community Member

Well, I think the OP should have made the terms crystal clear before starting. But I also agree that the "client" is  probably a "farmer"  - **Edited for Community Guidelines**

@ Mo: As the client didn't pay you,  and if it is your own work, you can report him to Google and ask for a take down. 

alexandernovikov
Community Member

What's a "farmer"? 

Someone who farms out work that is not their own on unsuspecting clients. 

Farmer gets job at a decent rate >farms it out at the lowest rate> returns it to the client as his/her own. This is not quite the same thing as subcontracting, which is generally done with the first client's permission. 

Some organizations seem to think that farming is OK. It is not. 

the3dguru
Community Member

I see a variation of this happening. A client will offer some project, a complex site involving detailed work. I bid but the client never responds, they choose somebody offering a low rate. A little while later, a job appears doing the same tasks, for a low rate.

 

Either its an agency that makes a low ball offer for any project, or they are a single freelancer that overestimated their ability. Either way, they can't complete the work and now they are trying to find somebody who can to do it for less then they offered.

 

The sad outcome is that nobody gets anything. They don't complete the project, so they don't get paid, the client doesn't get their site and I would never work for their crappy rate.

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