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Job success score is UNFAIR and should be changed.

Community Guru
Melanie H Member Since: Nov 2, 2017
61 of 73

@brian F wrote:

This place can also and should also be a sounding board for Upwork's chances to improve.  But wow dot he Upwork people resist and that possibility!


 

What do you mean, "the Upwork people"? You're an Upwork person too.

 

 

 

 

Ace Contributor
Melissa R Member Since: Nov 11, 2018
62 of 73
 
Community Guru
Scott B Member Since: Nov 20, 2015
63 of 73

There are two types of comments I find myself struggling with in this thread. The first the is the notion that those of us providing feedback who are not in the 100% on board camp with the OP are speaking in the ideal and not the reality of the current marketplace. The second is that the system is so screwed up that it's virtually impossible to do any work here and have a high score.

 

To the first issue, we are all working from the same marketplace. Comments I or others may make about good and bad clients come from the same pool as everyone else. Of course the nature of our work differs so we may not all be looking at the exact same clients but we are all getting our clients from the same UW pool. Consider that some of us may have been on this platform a lot longer or otherwise have more experience and that is the reason we may do a better job with client selection (although this is never guaranteed!) This isn't unfair nor unrealistic, but life. 

 

The second issue makes me wonder how there can be so many freelancers with 100% scores who have a lot of contracts and history and continue to work regularly here. How is this possible with such a punitive system. Look, I am not special. I do believe I do excellent work for my clients and provide top notch communication. I've been on this platform part-time and more recently full-time since 2015. I've maintained 100% JSS through that time. I've had a lot of clients. I continue to have a lot of clients. Do you think magically all of these clients have been great? Do you think that everyone has left a review? Do you think all of my clients are seasoned? The answer to all of these is an emphatic NO. I have never been a paying member of UW either. So how have I (knock on wood at the time of this writing) maintained 100% under the exact same parameters as everyone else? Again, not special. Check the profiles of others on this thread and elsewhere and you will see the same. Sorry to use you here Tonya, but check out her profile and you will see the same long-term numerous clients freelancer who has a 100% JSS. We are NOT the only two, I assure you of that.

 

Net, everyone is aware of JSS concerns and all of these points have been made thousands of times over the years and guaranteed they will be made thousands of times more from different profile photos. JSS is not great but it also isn't an apocalyptic nightmarish mess. Proof of that is within the profiles of many who find a way to compete on the exact same platform without succumbing to its more draconian features.

Moderator
Valeria K Moderator Member Since: Mar 6, 2014
64 of 73

Danny and others,

 

I would just like to clarify a few points about JSS that came up on this thread:

 

- All contracts in the last 2 years can potentially be included in JSS. This includes contracts that don't show publicly on the freelancers profile because all money was refunded or no money was paid on them yet or at all. If a contract was closed before the last JSS update (displayed in My Stats,) it'll be included in the current Job Success score. The freelancer can check My Jobs> All Contracts as that page includes all contracts including ones that don't show on the profile.

 

- Recommended score is calculated and updated differently. It's a lifetime calculation unlike JSS that doesn't consider contracts from more than 2 years ago. Of all the clients who gave feedback the score reflects the number of clients who said they would recommend the freelancer. Recommended score isn't updated at the same time as JSS. So there can be some contracts included in Recommended score but not in JSS and vice versa.

 

- Contracts without feedback only affect JSS if there is an excessive number of them. That is not the case with Danny's JSS.

 

Thanks for the discussion and feedback.

~ Valeria
Untitled
Community Guru
Brian F Member Since: Jun 4, 2013
65 of 73

Valeria- "This includes contracts that don't show publicly on the freelancers profile because all money was refunded or no money was paid on them yet or at all." Umm so when the previous system offered a freelancer a chance to preserve a higher public rating by giving possible hard-earned money back to a client Upwork retroactively put in place a new system that penalizes them even AFTER they have returned the money.  Swell.

 

"Contracts without feedback only affect JSS if there is an excessive number of them." Define "excessive."  There are SO many possible reasons that clients don't leave feedback.  Each situation involves different circumstances and different people.  Regardless of how many there are, there is generally no way to prove that this has anything to do with the freelancers and this is ultimately the responsibility of the client.  That this penalizes freelancers in ANY way is absurd and grossly unfair.  I have had a number of strange situations where clients just disappeared, no explanation, and I know for a fact that these are lowering my JSS score and are being included in the overall totals by which my score is calculated.  This really is a abomination that must be removed from the calculation.

Community Guru
Petra R Member Since: Aug 3, 2011
66 of 73

@brian F wrote:

 Umm so when the previous system offered a freelancer a chance to preserve a higher public rating by giving possible hard-earned money back to a client Upwork retroactively put in place a new system that penalizes them even AFTER they have returned the money.  Swell.


You do like twisting facts, don't you?

This has not changed.

If a full refund is given a contract vanishes from the freelancer's profile. It still does that.  This is not "a new system," - nor was it "retroactively put in place."

Community Guru
Tonya P Member Since: Nov 26, 2015
67 of 73

@Petra R wrote:

@brian F wrote:

 Umm so when the previous system offered a freelancer a chance to preserve a higher public rating by giving possible hard-earned money back to a client Upwork retroactively put in place a new system that penalizes them even AFTER they have returned the money.  Swell.


You do like twisting facts, don't you?

This has not changed.

If a full refund is given a contract vanishes from the freelancer's profile. It still does that.  This is not "a new system," - nor was it "retroactively put in place."


 I believe he is complaining about the JSS system which prevents freelancers from buying their way out of bad performance by paying off the client and hiding the review. 

Community Guru
Petra R Member Since: Aug 3, 2011
68 of 73

@Tonya P wrote:

@Petra R wrote:

@brian F wrote:

 Umm so when the previous system offered a freelancer a chance to preserve a higher public rating by giving possible hard-earned money back to a client Upwork retroactively put in place a new system that penalizes them even AFTER they have returned the money.  Swell.


You do like twisting facts, don't you?

This has not changed.

If a full refund is given a contract vanishes from the freelancer's profile. It still does that.  This is not "a new system," - nor was it "retroactively put in place."


 I believe he is complaining about the JSS system which prevents freelancers from buying their way out of bad performance by paying off the client and hiding the review. 


 Yeah, but that's not "new."


Remember that bug a couple of weeks ago when all the "dead" (refunded) contracts came back to once again show on people's profiles? It was very enlightening to go and take a look at some of the profiles from people who had previously claimed to have no idea why their JSS is low because all their feedback had been flawless Smiley Wink ...

Active Member
Danny K Member Since: Oct 7, 2018
69 of 73

Tonya and Petra, DO NOT for a second think this post has anything about "bribing" clients to give good feedback, you have obviously NOT been paying attention! I am insulted to even being suggested as such, complete digrace and disregard of the true issue at hand.
You ladies should be ashamed of yourselves.
I've said it before and will say it again, the JSS is not working in the favor of the freelancer, I won't go into the why's as I've already explained everything there is to explain so there's no point in re beating this dead horse, but I am shocked that you are trying to turn the issue I raised here into a "bribe" the client and just sweep my thread under the carpet of this accusation, simply unbelievable.

Ace Contributor
Melissa R Member Since: Nov 11, 2018
70 of 73
Quote from Petra...”Remember that bug a couple of weeks ago when all the "dead" (refunded) contracts came back to once again show on people's profiles? It was very enlightening to go and take a look at some of the profiles from people who had previously claimed to have no idea why their JSS is low because all their feedback had been flawless Smiley Wink ...”

Danny,

What a shameful response by Petra. She sounds excited and happy that the system was bugged in a malicious manner (released by Upwork a couple of weeks ago). WOW! I’m appalled by the way she has been communicating with you.
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