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andy-hill
Member

Oh No! Not the JSS Issue Again. Please Help Me Understand!

Hi Folks,

 

I know members have flogged the Job Success Score half to death already, so I'll keep this short.

 

The reason for my message is because I've dropped four points at the last update. I have absolutely no idea why! Ever since I've been on Upwork, which isn't so long, my rating has been climbing steadily. Now, I understand that there are many variables in the way Upwork rates the JSS, and most of those are secret for obvious reasons—I get that. But here's what I know about my performance so far:

 

- I complete every single job on time or before time

- All clients are satisfied with my work and pay in full

- I respond to "ALL" messages the same day (included job invites)

- I submit proposals on a regular basis

- I always leave client feedback

- Client's always leave positive freelancer feedback for me

 

That's all I know. I log in every day and interact with the system.

 

MY THREE QUESTIONS

 

1). Is it possible to get Upwork to look into this or are members not allowed to question the JSS? I understand that they can't tell me why there has been a drop or a rise. But if someone could at least look at it and say it's a justified four point drop that would be useful. At least this way I will know that it's not a technical blip.

 

2). Is JSS so super-sensitive that it only takes a micro detail to knock down what has taken so long to build up? I'm just curious, that's all. I mean, a four point drop based on my good performance does seem extreme, to me at least. But then I'm not a veteran of this system so perhaps it's common.

 

3). Last month (September), there was an Upwork technical error my end. It prevented me from submitting new proposals. This went on for three weeks before someone manged to fix it. It meant I could not actively submit new proposals for most of September. I wonder if that may have affected my score, even though it was a situation out of my control?

 

Any advice much appreciated,

 

Andy H

37 REPLIES 37
jerryjames91
Member

1. Yes, they do check to see if the calculation is correct - one of the moderators here or a support rep will be able to help you confirm your JSS calculation. However, from past experience, I am pretty sure it'll be the private feedback section that screwed up your JSS, even a rating of '8' in the recommendation question will impact your score negatively. 

 

2.. I can't view your profile so I'm not sure this is the reason, but since it takes a maximum of your 24-month job history into account - it can drop if positive feedback outside that window drops out from consideration. 

 

3. I don't think the number of proposals you submit factor into your score, well, it's not mentioned on their official page that they love to link every time someone asks a question about JSS. 

https://support.upwork.com/hc/en-us/articles/211068358-My-Job-Success-Score

 

Hi Jerry thanks for your feedback.

 

Are you saying that it's possible to trash months of hard work all because someone drops a couple of stars on a private form? That can't be right surely? A fair system would be if it was as difficult to lose hard earned points as it was to gain them. That's unless there was a drastic event of course. But also, if a client has left a five star rating—and a positive public feedback—why on earth would they then go and score differently in a private space? And if they did, why would Upwork take that seriously if they've already left a glowing rating in the public domain? It's all a bit confusing, at least to me it is.

 

Anyway, let's see what the moderators say.

 

Thanks once again for your feedback Jerry, much appreciated.

 

Andy

 

PS - You have to be logged in to see my profile. I think the link in here tries to look at the public profile. Here's my link: https://www.upwork.com/freelancers/~01e298f14d40cc8b59?viewMode=1 

Hi Andy,

 

The rise and fall of the JSS has always been a foggy issue. Hopefully, in your case, it is just a glitch.

 

JSS = (successful contract outcomes - negative contract outcomes) / total outcomes

 

Here are some negative contract outcomes:

1) Bad public feedback

2) Bad private feedback (hidden)

3) Lack of feedback

4) Cancellation of a contract (for any reason)

5) Pausing/suspension of a contract

6) Refund of money (partial or full) to the client

7) Dispute with the client

😎 Some good outcome falling out the 6-, 12-, or 24-month window

9) Any complaints against the provider from anywhere (related to TOS or otherwise)

10) Act of God (such as, a client clicking the “wrong” option or confusing you with another freelancer)

 

The provision of private feedback is supposed to promote neutrality.

 

To get a good JSS, the freelancer needs to keep both the client and Upwork happy.

 

Keeping the client happy may require wholeheartedly avowing that black is white.

 

Remember the old saying, “The boss is always right”?

 

The client isn’t a freelancer’s boss, but the client is “almost always” right.

 

And yes, it’s like a game of Snakes and Ladders; sooner or later, some snake is going to get you, short one or long one.

"Certa bonum certamen"


@Ravindra B wrote:

 

JSS = (successful contract outcomes - negative contract outcomes) / total outcomes

 

Here are some negative contract outcomes:

1) Bad public feedback

2) Bad private feedback (hidden)

3) Lack of feedback

4) Cancellation of a contract (for any reason)

5) Pausing/suspension of a contract

6) Refund of money (partial or full) to the client

7) Dispute with the client

😎 Some good outcome falling out the 6-, 12-, or 24-month window

9) Any complaints against the provider from anywhere (related to TOS or otherwise)

10) Act of God (such as, a client clicking the “wrong” option or confusing you with another freelancer)

 



 

Here are some negative contract outcomes:

1) Bad public feedback True

2) Bad private feedback (hidden) True

3) Lack of feedback  ONLY if it represents a significant percentage overall

4) Cancellation of a contract (for any reason) False

5) Pausing/suspension of a contract False

6) Refund of money (partial or full) to the client False

7) Dispute with the client False

😎 Some good outcome falling out the 6-, 12-, or 24-month window Partly true

9) Any complaints against the provider from anywhere (related to TOS or otherwise) False

10) Act of God (such as, a client clicking the “wrong” option or confusing you with another freelancer) Possible

" But also, if a client has left a five star rating—and a positive public feedback—why on earth would they then go and score differently in a private space? And if they did, why would Upwork take that seriously if they've already left a glowing rating in the public domain?" 

 

One of the biggest mysteries yet to be solved by freelancers on Upwork. I have a very similar profile to yours, 90% JSS, glowing public feedback from all clients. Basically, you're left wondering what you did wrong and clueless about what you need to improve upon. 

 

PS. Could you check your 'My stats' page and see the 'Clients who would recommend you' statistic? What does that say?

Hi Jerry,

 

It says: Clients who would recommend you 85% I don't doubt that means 25% would not recommend me, it probably just means 25% didn't participate. I say this because so far I have a wonderful relationship with all my clients.

 

Andy

15% of your clients you mean 🙂

 

I think a blank rating will also be perceived as negative by Upwork , so that will also be a factor in the lower score. For example, I have wonderful relationships with my clients, regular rehires, long-term gigs...but my recommendation - 82%

Haha LOL 🙂  Yes, I meant 15% Jerry.

 

I suppose the conclusion then, is that it's not a fair rating system in the eyes of freelancers, yet Upwork thinks it is. Not much we can do about that I guess. The reason JSS is so important is because it makes a better first impression when people view one's profile. It can mean the difference of a job offer or not. I would think prospects would not bother looking at the client feedback if the JSS didn't meet thier criteria.

 

Oh well, never mind, is the only response I can think of.

 

Best regards,

 

Andy


@Andy H wrote:

It says: Clients who would recommend you 85% I don't doubt that means 25% would not recommend me, it probably just means 25% didn't participate. I say this because so far I have a wonderful relationship with all my clients.

 


  1.  100 % - 85 %= 15 %
  2. They can't help but participate. It is not an optional part while leaving feedback.

Were there any contracts you were hired on but didn't go forward for some reason?

Hi Petra,

 

Yes, there was one contract some months back that was cancelled before it began. Although I accepted the offer, it never actually got off the ground as the client was not quite ready. No money or work changed hands for this. But I doubt it has anything to do with last Sunday's update because there have been other updates since then where my score continued to climb. I also doubt Upwork would strike four whole points off the JSS for a non-event.

 

Andy

mtngigi
Member

nevermind ... what I had to say is pointless ...

Ravindra, Virginia, thank you both for your responses.

 

I have actually read all the stuff on JSS. That is why I decided to post, because I didn't seem to tick any of the negative boxes that I've read about. I suppose my main questions was a curiosity about how sensitive it is. I want to know if it's really possible to loose months of hard work building up the JSS by a single event. It's certainly not possible to boost the score by four points with a single positive event. I know there's a lot of secrecy behind the way this works. But I think it's also fair to question a four point drop with a glowing profile, that's all.

 

Andy

“I want to know if it's really possible to lose months of hard work building up the JSS by a single event. It's certainly not possible to boost the score by four points with a single positive event.”

 

My own observation is that the inertia to upward movement of the JSS is far greater than in the downward direction.

"Certa bonum certamen"


@Ravindra B wrote:

“I want to know if it's really possible to lose months of hard work building up the JSS by a single event. It's certainly not possible to boost the score by four points with a single positive event.”

 

My own observation is that the inertia to upward movement of the JSS is far greater than in the downward direction.


 That is how percentages work, unfortunately.

 

Say you have 9 apples. All those 9 apples are red. Your red-apple percentage is 100%

You get a green apple. Now your red apple percentage drops a whopping 10% to 90%

Even if you don't get another green apple, and 10 more red apples, your red apple percentage only rises to 95%

I am so glad I have found this thread. I was one week away from receiving top rated status when suddenly my rating has plummeted from 100% to 86% - for no apparent reason!!

 

Only 6 jobs completed and all 6 have public 5 star ratings - no disputes, no refunds, no contracts that didn't go ahead...

 

Support have just given me the same answer listed earlier on in the thread. Do they do it on purpose??

 

Very disappointed......:(

Hi Lucy,

 

I just looked at your profile.

 

As the 14-point plunge in your JSS is recent, it appears that the private feedback of the last job (completed this month) was pretty bad. The client could have meant it, or the client could have erred.

 

Maybe there was a glitch that CS can help with.

"Certa bonum certamen"

Thank you Ravindra! 

 

I cannot understand why either of my clients this month would have given me poor private feedback 😞

 

Also - surely shouldn't we be able to review the pricate feedback to be able to improve?? 

Private feedback is intended to be private.

 

And as Valeria has stated, several factor affect the JSS.

"Certa bonum certamen"

Welcome to experiencing one of the pet peeves of a majority of freelancers on Upwork! 

 

Although most freelancers will wholeheartedly agree with you, I am pretty sure Upwork is going to continue with this mindnumbingly irritating method that keeps you guessing. 

 

Private feedback makes no sense because we NEVER find out what we did wrong, which really hampers future productivity - and the vice that warranted the low score may continue to affect our work on future projects as well. 

 

My personal experience: 

- Clients leave excellent reviews, thank me for delivering quickly, and use my work on their websites without any further editing. 

- 2 weeks later, I get a 2% drop in my JSS Smiley Indifferent

 

I'm pretty sure one of your clients decided to leave you a low private feedback score for reasons only the client and Upwork are privy to. 

 

However, don't worry, the huge drop occurred because you have very few completed jobs. Hence, another job with great feedback should send your JSS right back above 90%. 


@Jerry J wrote:

 

 

However, don't worry, the huge drop occurred because you have very few completed jobs. Hence, another job with great feedback should send your JSS right back above 90%. 


Yes, the JSS of fresh profiles is very sensitive. It gets better when you accumulate some jobs. The good news is, as Jerry wrote, it should go up again very quick.

-----------
"Where darkness shines like dazzling light"   —William Ashbless


@Jerry J wrote:

Welcome to experiencing one of the pet peeves of a majority of freelancers on Upwork! 

 

I totally missed the poll of the millions of freelancers on Upwork that revealed that this is a "pet peeve" for most. Can you share?

 

Although most freelancers will wholeheartedly agree with you, I am pretty sure Upwork is going to continue with this mindnumbingly irritating method that keeps you guessing. 

 

Private feedback makes no sense because we NEVER find out what we did wrong, which really hampers future productivity - and the vice that warranted the low score may continue to affect our work on future projects as well. 

 

What you're arguing here isn't that private feedback makes no sense, but that private feedback doesn't benefit the freelancer. That's true, but that doesn't mean it "makes no sense," since it isn't designed to benefit the freelancer. It makes a great deal of sense in the effort to allow clients and Upwork to gather accurate information about client experiences, since a bizarre social norm leads many clients to feel obligated to leave 5-star ratings regardless of reality, and sends many freelancers into a rage or a depression spiral if someone leaves an honest 4.5.

 

 


 

Hi Lucy,

 

Note that not only public feedback but also private feedback, jobs with no money paid, no feedback given and other factors also contribute to JSS. I understand you are disappointed but I'm sure you'll be able to bring your JSS back up by communicating with your clients in a timely and professional manner and delivering great product. 

~ Valeria
Upwork

I always communicate in a timely manner and deliver high quality work. I still don't see who would have left negative private feedback and have had no unpaid jobs. 

 

I just don't understand it. Just when I was about to hit Top Rated......


@Lucy B wrote:

I just don't understand it. Just when I was about to hit Top Rated......


 You only have to qualify for 13 of 16 weeks--they don't have to be consecutive. If you get to 90% or above with the next adjustment, you may still become top rated, depending on the sequence of your qualifying weeks.

ayagamal21
Member

I need to know, why my JSS down from 100% to 94% with no reason?

 

Also, Why I didn't get Top Rated till now?

oh don't worry there is always a reason

ayagamal21
Member

and I will get a solution here?


@Aya G wrote:

and I will get a solution here?


 No. The JSS algorithm is secret, for good reason.

 

You can read about JSS and see the factors that impact your score, but no one who works for Upwork will dig into the specifics of your scoring and tell you what hurt you and how much.

I'm already read about that and I didn't do any from these factors, So that's why I am here.


@Aya G wrote:

I'm already read about that and I didn't do any from these factors, So that's why I am here.


Aya, you very likely got a less than perfect private feedback for a recently completed job.

"Certa bonum certamen"


@Aya G wrote:

I'm already read about that and I didn't do any from these factors, So that's why I am here.


 Aya --

 

You have mistakenly set your English level at "Native/Bilingual."  If your post above is typical of your English, then you should immediately correct your English level to "Basic" or (perhaps?) "Conversational."

 

One possible factor in client dissatisfaction is a misleading freelancer Profile.

goldenseal
Member

One of the biggest idiocies of the whole private feedback system is that the clients are given no indication that choosing something less than an "8" will mean a punch in the gut to the freelancer.

 

Check out my profile. I had been at 100%, then dropped to 91% following the completion of one job. I asked the client what he was unhappy with, and he was confused, saying he gave me a 4.85. I let him know that the private feedback (how likely you are to recommend) was what really mattered, and he admitted that he filled the form out quickly and didn't even pay attention to what rating he'd given me.

 

He apologized profusley in his public feedback, and asked CS to change it (they wouldn't). 7 months later I've only gained 3% back. It's ridiculous.


@Joshua T wrote:

 

He apologized profusley in his public feedback, and asked CS to change it (they wouldn't). 7 months later I've only gained 3% back. It's ridiculous.


 FYI, September-February is not seven months.

 

 


Joshua T wrote:. 7 months later I've only gained 3% back. It's ridiculous.

 If it is 6 month or less just ask for that contract to be excluded from your JSS


@Petra R wrote:

@Joshua T wrote:

One of the biggest idiocies of the whole private feedback system is that the clients are given no indication that choosing something less than an "8" will mean a punch in the gut to the freelancer.

 

Check out my profile. I had been at 100%, then dropped to 91% following the completion of one job. I asked the client what he was unhappy with, and he was confused, saying he gave me a 4.85. I let him know that the private feedback (how likely you are to recommend) was what really mattered, and he admitted that he filled the form out quickly and didn't even pay attention to what rating he'd given me.

 

He apologized profusley in his public feedback, and asked CS to change it (they wouldn't). 7 months later I've only gained 3% back. It's ridiculous.


 As you are top rated you could have simply had that contract excluded from the calculation had you reacted a bit more quickly.


 Are you sure? There have been a lot of questions about this posted, but I thought that the moderators said that it was only the public feedback that was excluded/hidden. If so, he'd have been worse off by dropping the 4.85 and keeping the impact of the worse private feedback.


@Tiffany S wrote:

 Are you sure? There have been a lot of questions about this posted, but I thought that the moderators said that it was only the public feedback that was excluded/hidden. If so, he'd have been worse off by dropping the 4.85 and keeping the impact of the worse private feedback.


 No, private feedback is killed too. It's basically a wash and feels p good when some donkey wants to screw you out of money but you dispute and get a majority of the money and then have his bad feedback killed to pour a little salt in his wound. hehehehehehehehehehe

 

 

mfahadmanzoor
Member

Like many of you, I am also a victim of "private client feedback dragging JSS down" and I think that it's not fair. I do not think that it's fair because for we only get to see client's public feedback they get but they get to see our JSS. I am sure that some, if not most, always try to dig in the past record of a prospective before applying to their project and when we do, we only see their public feedback. There should also be an JSS equivalen for clients as well so that they know that they also have something at stake when they are evaluating freelancers.

 

My standard practice during collaboration is to ask my client like once every week over Skype/Hangout chat/call whether they're getting worth of their money and are they happy with collaboration experience? I have had clients who never complained, paid on time and left reasonable public feedback with 5 stars. I'm at the brink (91%) of being "Top Rated" no more but I can definitely invoke the privilege to get a job removed from my JSS calculation but I cannot think which one should I get removed to maximise my gain/minimise my loss.

 

For the curious people amongst you, my profile is https://www.upwork.com/fl/fahadm in case you want to suggest me something.