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difficult to understand client is female or male

Community Guru
Douglas Michael M Member Since: May 22, 2015
11 of 21

[removed/revised by poster]

Community Guru
Douglas Michael M Member Since: May 22, 2015
12 of 21

Vinod,

 

You are not strengthening your case by censoring the point of a cartoon that is about the differential treatment of men and women in business.

https://punch.photoshelter.com/image/I0000eHEXGJ_wImQ

Community Guru
Scott B Member Since: Nov 20, 2015
13 of 21

To be fair I don't think this post is about sexism or inequality. I take it on face value that it's about using the proper pronoun. I also think there are different levels of formality and expectations for addressing people within differing cultures and locations.

 

For me I would simply use their name or "they/client" if appropriate to skirt this issue. Of course I am coming at this as an American on the West Coast. Head to the East Coast and you'll see even newspapers like the NYT say in articles, "according to Ms. Weiss..." or "Mr. Stevens then indicated...". Other countries as well have a more formal approach when speaking to or about people they don't know, people who are older, people who are in more senior positions, etc. 

 

So a question might be whether a site like Upwork should try and accommodate these different cultural or location based differences or should we come together with a homogenized approach that defines an Upwork culture. The answer is probably to accommodate what reasonably can given this is a global platform but you cannot be all things to all people and so lines need to be drawn. For me, indicating gender is a bridge too far. My opinion is that adding a "Mr" or "Ms", etc. would not be received well by the majority (as defined by over 50% of the people). Certainly any sort of gender designation (i.e. male/female) should be a complete non-starter. So this means that Upwork is going to be a less formal platform but of course that doens't require anyone to operate at a certain level of formality in their own writing. I grant you for the gender uncertain issue that the OP is asking about this may not help, so I'd say you'll have to work around that as best as you can for what I imagine are the minority of cases. 

Community Guru
Preston H Member Since: Nov 24, 2014
14 of 21

It's an interesting discussion, and one that we haven't discussed before.

 

But Upwork isn't going to change anything for this.

 

The ways to handle this have been aptly described by previous thread participants.

 

The "elephant in the room" - what everybody is being too polite to say aloud - is that there IS a solution to this, and that would be to require all clients to submit to proctored blood tests at medical testing centers so that their government-issued photo ID can be presented along with a blood sample and they can be positively Gender-Verified.

 

Otherwise, this is a non-issue.

Ace Contributor
Stephen L V Member Since: Feb 18, 2015
15 of 21

A Modest Proposal indeed, Preston!

Community Guru
Douglas Michael M Member Since: May 22, 2015
16 of 21

Preston H wrote:

 

The "elephant in the room" - what everybody is being too polite to say aloud - is that there IS a solution to this, and that would be to require all clients to submit to proctored blood tests at medical testing centers so that their government-issued photo ID can be presented along with a blood sample and they can be positively Gender-Verified.


Oh, dear.

Community Guru
Jennifer M Member Since: May 17, 2015
17 of 21

Douglas Michael M wrote:

Preston H wrote:

 

The "elephant in the room" - what everybody is being too polite to say aloud - is that there IS a solution to this, and that would be to require all clients to submit to proctored blood tests at medical testing centers so that their government-issued photo ID can be presented along with a blood sample and they can be positively Gender-Verified.


Oh, dear.


Mann, I spend too much time on reddit. I actually understand what this "oh dear" means and thought it myself when I read this.

Community Guru
Wendy C Member Since: Aug 24, 2015
18 of 21

Scott beat me to it ... This is far more a cultural issue than many realize.  As a West Coast (laid back and less formal) person, I sometimes bite my tongue to not inadvertently offend a Southerner or be overly friendly toward a native East Coaster. 

 

When writing either proposals or general messaging it helps to use terms like "your" - i.e. your target market; your demographics, your clients' products,  etc.  

 

Frankly, I think the OP's question reflects a simpatico attitude and a sincere desire to not offend people. 

Community Guru
Petra R Member Since: Aug 3, 2011
19 of 21

Wendy C wrote:

 

Frankly, I think the OP's question reflects a simpatico attitude and a sincere desire to not offend people. 


No doubt about it. At all.

But it won't happen.

 

Community Guru
Kim F Member Since: Aug 26, 2015
20 of 21

An additional problem with allocating Ms or Mr is that not everyone IS a Ms or Mr, regardless of their gender. A whole new level of offence can be caused if Colonel Mustard, Reverend Green and Professor Plum are addressed in that way.

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