Upwork is now requiring freelancer proposals to contain a pay increase schedule or agree to no raise

[32d86ea6]

I received a proposal this week that included a pay raise schedule shown at the top indicating raises rates out to 12 months.  Since it was the only proposal with it, I archived this otherwise highly qualified candidate because of it.

This was the first time I've seen it so I did some digging.  I saw in the freelancer forum that this is now required.  Either put in guaranteed raises or opt out of raises altogether.

From my perspective, it's not good for freelancers or clients. 

It isn't good for freelancers because they either

• lose opportunities or
• forego opportunities for raises. 

It's not good for clients because they

• may lose qualified candidates if the rates set a year in advance don't fit their budget, and
• have to make decisions about raises before the contractor has done any work.

I hope they remove this feature and allow us to negotiate raises directly with the contractor as they do work that justifies it.

[the-right-writer]

"Never" is never, and the definition does not change. I am not allowing language in a contract that I do not agree with, no matter where. As Tiffany mentioned, I will also be including language that explains I am not adhering to some bizarre employment scheme run by Upwork. I have the right, and will do so in every contract, to refuse terms I will not abide by. No one is going to turn me into a servant for Upwork, cranking out low-paying and low-quality work.

There are no options in this mess. It is designed to get raises for employees. This is about destroying the freelance platform.

[wlyonsatl]

I see.

[the-right-writer]

Good.

[fc3d5c06]

I will try

[palmerlewis]

As a person that hires many hourly freelancers and also has many hourly contracts.... I love it.  Great addition.

[tlsanders]

How do you determine how much of a raise a freelancer will be worth in three months without ever having seen their work?

[williamtcooper]

I think he is being sarcastic / funny because clients don't enjoy paying more.

[tlsanders]

You may be right.

I was hoping there was finally going to be someone who had an explanation for why anyone might want this.

[dyumnin]

Which is better,

• A consultant who works for 6 months, and then says, "Hi, by the way from next month I am charging all clients these new rates"  OR
• A consultant who says right from the start, "If after 6 months you find me to be an asset to your team, I want the rates to be increased by X"

As an employer, I would find it easy to plan and budget for #2, If the consultant is not good, I will anyways let them go before completion of 6 months.
If the consultant is good and I want to keep working with them, rather than being shocked with a new rates during critical parts of my project, I would prefer to know these rates in advance.

[spectralua]

There is no problem if you want to increase your price. The problem is that Upwork forces you to make commitments years in advance.

It's great that you can predict the future. But not everyone can and they are need to change conditions due to many factors. Then they need to either comply with unfavorable terms and save their reputation, or request changes and turn out to be an unreliable partner. In business it is unacceptable to promise something that you do not intend to do.

[kelly_e]

So true, Mykola. And in addition to your excellent points (as has been mentioned elsewhere in the thread):

—All this is happening *before we've even said Hello*—and so will scare many employers off from contacting you in the first place, or maybe even from making *any* hire at all

—If conditions do change, and you and the employer are in agreement, *what you said before you even met the employer is forever-binding* —so that you'd need to begin a new contract with them, thus making getting to Top Rated Plus even less likely than it already is for most Upwork freelancers.

.

IF this has a use, it's AFTER already being in conversation with an employer—at the time of initiating a contract, NOT before even getting a precious view.

And IF this has a use, it should be at the discretion of the freelancer (*actually optional to use,* not "choose one or you can't move forward")—and it should, as you say, be able to be changed if circumstances change.

Lip service from UW aside, this is NOT OPTIONAL—you can't opt not to use it; it has NEVER been a requested feature by anyone—solves NO problem and causes many; and is DETRIMENTAL to every freelancer as implemented—from being less likely to get an interview at the start, all the way to months or years out.

[spectralua]

You're right, many have already written about this here. Demanding a price increase before starting work looks stupid and presumptuous. The client still doubts whether to hire you at the current price, does not know the quality of your work, and you are already asking for an increase and obliging the client to guarantee this increase. This is a good reason to refuse without even talking.

[the-right-writer]

Well, I guess it could make sense, sort of, when you consider Upwork wants us all to be employees - well sort of. When it suits them, we are employees, or they are trying to get there, but with no employer benefits. They can't be unaware they are destroying freelancing here.

[the-right-writer]

This site is supposed to be for freelancing. This new business model is not freelancing, but a step in eliminating freelancing as we and the rest of the world know it.

You do not discuss "raises" or raising your rates in future jobs in an initial contract. If you are an employee, which Upwork wants us to be without benefits, then you discuss raises. Freelancing has nothing to do with "raises."

Freelancers can raise their fees by contract or project. That's called freelancing. There is no benefit to a freelancer to engage in this ridiculous contract. It will and already is harming freelancers. Freelancers can write the contract to include additional money or whatever they work out with the client. Why do you think forced participation is a good idea? Only if you are an employer hiring an employee.

[tlsanders]

1000% the first, though of course no responsible freelancer springs it on the client that rates will be changing next month.

[celgins]

I’m not sure if a machine learning algorithm provided data to drive the idea, but like Kelly and others, I don’t think there was much thought put into this.

As is the case with many for-profit businesses, this really boils down to money. The new feature appears to be a stab at predictive analysis to help Upwork better forecast future outcomes. I can just hear the following statement being read at shareholders and board of directors’ meetings:

"According to our statistics, approximately 4,132,718 freelancers are in line for rate increases over the next three months. We project marketplace revenue will increase by 8% during this time, as compared to the same period last year. In other words, we now have a better picture of a potential earnings increase because we forced freelancers and clients to reveal this prior to contract initiation.”

[spectralua]

I especially like the phrase "we forced". 😁

[abixbg]

Because its true! 😄

[kelly_e]

Revenue per contract might get a projection like that, but if the Law of Unintended Consequences doesn't make the number of new contracts on site go down as an absolute, I'll be a very surprised user experience & marketing professional.

Still, the phrasing can and will be weaseled so it looks like a good thing.

Just like it's being weaseled here so it looks "optional." Blergh.

[069cc2a0]

You have hit the nail directly on the head!

And it's so blatantly obvious.

[kbadeau]

This observation makes perfect sense, but I'll add my own theory to it... "when we told long term freelancers we were going to double their fees on existing long term projects at the end of the year, we lost a ton more of those long term projects than we projected we would. We thought allowing freelancers to preemptively force clients to pay an extra 5% after three or six months (or whatever it is) might fix that problem."

Only thing is, freelancers (even artists who never took math in college) understand that raising your rate doesn't change the fact that our fees have been doubled.

[48f850a0]

They should include an option that says "open for negotiation" or "to be discussed" not "never"

Its quite funny to see that an old time leading freelance hub like this can't make the right decisions, both scary and disheartening 

[the-right-writer]

It should not be there at all.

[tlsanders]

It's not that they can't make the right decisions. It's that what's right for them and what's right for us are two very different things. 

[kelly_e]

>>what's right for them and what's right for us are two very different things

Ironic, because without us... there is no them.

*sigh*

We are their customers—the customers you are supposed to treat transparently, and take input from, and keep happy and get great word-of-mouth from... & we're higher-paying customers than ever, as we all know—but somewhere they lost sight of the fact that we're the customer, and how to treat customers to keep 'em loyal. From feeling like partners in our joint success, we've now become late-night drive-through dopes at a bad burger place, where the attitude is "Who cares? Another sap will be along any minute."

Eventually, though, even with a lot of saps in the world... if you don't have satisfied customers on BOTH sides in a job-matching equation, you won't have a job-matching site.

[tlsanders]

The thing is, the vast, vast majority of Upwork freelancers are "customers" only in that they buy connects. At least 75% of freelancers could leave the platform without affecting the availability of qualified freelancers for client work. 

If my expectations are accurate, they won't need any real freelancers at all within 18-24 months, so it doesn't make a lot of sense for them to invest in retaining or attracting us now.

[williamtcooper]

Agreed that the majority of freelancers could leave and it wouldn't affect client work.

Agreed that the quanity and quality of freelancers on Upwork is going to greatly change within two years.

It should be a concern for ALL freelancers to move to in-demand skills ASAP and continually reeducate. The world is in process of changing more rapidly than most of us can keep up with.

[wlyonsatl]

Daniel,

Tempest in a tea pot. Follow the path of least resistance.

Upwork is insistent that it is not a party to your agreement with a client.

 https://www.upwork.com/legal#relationshipwithupwork

"We are not involved directly in your negotiations or the delivery of Freelancer Services and are not a party to any agreements you may make with other Users."

So, you and the client are free to change your contractual agreement at any time. You don't need Upwork's permission to jointly agree to such a change, though you might need to create a new agreement on the Upwork system. (Is that really such a big deal? Not in my experience. I regularly close and re-start contracts. Click, click, click - done!

If your current plan is to not require/request a pay raise for the foreseeable future, then mark your initial proposal to reflect that expectation.

Negotiate something different if circumstances change, but you could (should?) make it clear to the client in your pre-contract conversations that you reserve the right to raise your rate. That is really just a given in business, and they can always reserve the right to just say, "No."

Good luck!

[tlsanders]

It's a big deal to freelancers who are working toward Top Rated Plus.

[the-right-writer]

but you could (should?) make it clear to the client in your pre-contract conversations that you reserve the right to raise your rate. That is really just a given in business, and they can always reserve the right to just say, "No."

Absolutely, they have the right to say no. There goes a good client who wanted a freelancer, not a pseudo-employee.

[abixbg]

This is yet another half-assed feature that was introduced out of the blue. It is infuriating that freelancers never know how similar features look like from clients PoV (UI context) The general idea is good but it covers extremely limited use case and it is very prone to misuse from both clients and freelancers. 

Personally i will always set it to "never" because of the OP's reaction to it. 

If they wanted to be useful if should have, clearly stated it is a mandatory for hourly contracts on the Clients interface. And at least give us flexible raise shedule with the very common case of having an evaluation period. 

• Base rate: $30  
• Evaluation period - 1/2/4 weeks - Rate: $20 (Optional)
• Renegotiation every - 3/6/12 months (Optional)

This also makes absolutely zero sense for short term contracts for specific task! 

[069cc2a0]

This is another one of their let's try and fix what's not broke feature, and is utterly ridiculous.

It should be between the freelancer and client to discuss this matter when appropriate to both of them.

What a horrible way to start a professional relationship by a freelancer having to state when and how much their rates will change, or having to promise they will never change them.

Personally as a freelancer, I would never even comprehend doing a job for an hourly rate.

Only milestone's.

What brightspark, thought this idea up, and why for God's sake?

Talk about; Let's scare the new client off!

[tlsanders]

Just imagine if the team that created this feature had invested 1/10 of that time in auto-filtering postings that ask you to respond by telegram.

[kbadeau]

I just have to reply again because it's the middle of October and we are still being forced to include this nonsense in our proposals. It's so asinine and if it's not on EVERY proposal, because they're just testing it, that's extraordinarily unfair to those of us who are forced to include that in our proposal.

Hi, we've never met, and you know nothing about me or my experience, but if you pick me I'm going to raise my rate on you. How do you like them apples? Great "feature."

[m_terrazas]

I must have been very unlucky, but all the hourly proposals I have sent had the "option" to review rates 😡