Jun 5, 2021 12:14:14 PM by Ragini A
Hi! I just experienced this for the first time and while I'm dealing with it on my own, I want to know how others do it:
A man not too comfortable with English interviewed me for a job he posted regarding content editing and proofreading. In the interview, it was made clear that the interview was for something completely different from the job posting and after realizing he found someone for the job and was looking for another skill set, I respectfully declined and ended the interview.
I'm new here and frankly, not that busy right now. I sent him a message thanking him for taking the time to speak with me and mentioned again that the reason we couldn't talk further was that his job required a skill set that I did not have.
THIS MAN HAD THE AUDACITY to tell me that it was my lack of motivation that kept me from getting this job, that I wasn't eager enough to make money.
I'm here to establish a career, not make petty money for skills I don't have. Respectfully telling him this, but he goes on and on about how it is clear in his head that I'm demotivated. Judging a freelancer's application and interview is something I understand, the client must do it to be able to choose a freelancer. But to pass moral judgements about a young woman's work ethic after only a 6.5-minute long zoom call is frustrating me beyond what I expected.
How would you respond to this?
Jun 5, 2021 12:36:01 PM Edited Jun 5, 2021 12:40:19 PM by Aleksandr S
There are too many morons in this world. Not worth spending time on them. Just move on. You can block him btw, if he keeps annoying you.
Jun 5, 2021 12:48:37 PM Edited Jun 5, 2021 12:50:21 PM by Preston H
re: "How to deal with a potentially toxic client"
Don't
re: "How would you respond to this?"
I wouldn't respond.
How would it benefit me to respond?
Jun 5, 2021 01:31:21 PM by Aru B
Just ignore them. You were pretty professional and the person was not, the client don't deserve working with you.
Jun 5, 2021 01:42:26 PM by Luce N
Because we call clients "clients", we expect them to be adults, balanced and polite. But many aren't, and they're not worth wasting time on.
Jun 6, 2021 04:21:33 AM by Jamie F
Ragini A wrote:
How would you respond to this?
I wouldn't. I'd just move on as though the discussion never happened.
Jun 6, 2021 08:17:49 AM by Mikko R
Jun 8, 2021 03:01:57 AM Edited Jun 8, 2021 04:19:22 AM by Shaun K
Here's a great way to approach this issue:
At the bottom, when you're starting out, you will have the *crappiest* clients. These folks are trying to squeeze every last ounce of energy and work out of you because they are (poor). They are also less happy because they are (poor).
As your career progresses, you will find it much easier to filter out these kinds of clients from the get go, within the first few seconds of the interview. Instead of second-guessing yourself, you'll second-guess the client.
In this case: someone who's got the time to respond back like that has too much time on their hands. This guy was at the bottom and was looking for someone to knock down so he could feel better about himself.
Over time, these abusive types of people become a lot easier to ignore.
As a learning experience and a way to fortify yourself for future interactions, be sure to read your clients reviews before submitting applications. That will help to keep the nasties away. 🙂
You'll do great on here! I know a good freelancer when I see it.
Jun 8, 2021 04:38:45 PM by Bill H
Ragini, the man in question is not potentially toxic, he is toxic. He is not, however, a potential client since you will never work for him.
No one can force you to say anything, no one can force you to listen to anything. Over the last thirty+ years I have encountered this issue repeatedly. The joy of freelancing is having unlimited access to the "off" button. Eventually you will get to the point where you intentionally shove gently against the client's ego in your written response. It's important to do that because you do not want to work with or for a narcissist. I also tell prospective clents I will not accept any work until we have explored a fit, and typically have a section in a proposal document outlining the client's responsibilities. The freelancer-client relationship is one of equals, and you should reject any client who doesn't sgree with that.
Jun 9, 2021 07:13:25 PM Edited Jun 13, 2021 07:18:11 AM by Renata S
Hi Ragini,
I'm not sure how people arrive on the platform expecting Upwork to be some sort of magical idiot-free oasis.
How would I handle the situation? Exactly the way you did, except I've developed a thicker skin, and after the initial shock and irritation at having my time wasted, I wouldn't be tempted to waste more of it analyzing how someone I don't know and will likely never encounter again could have the audacity to pass moral judgments on me. My time and energy are too important to waste.
A word of advice: if you describe this brief negative encounter as "frustrating me beyond what I expected," freelancing may not be for you. There's an endless supply of similar idiots in different packages, and Upwork gives you access to them on a global scale! If you spend this much time analyzing every insult from every random idiot you encounter from every possible angle, you'll die of exhaustion.
You did well to avoid this client. Stop analyzing the insult and put your energy into finding one you want to work with. There are a lot of good ones out there. That's why we're here.
Jun 9, 2021 11:29:09 PM Edited Jun 9, 2021 11:29:31 PM by Preston H
re: "I'm not sure how people arrive on the platform expecting Upwork to be some sort of magical idiot-free oasis."
Perhaps they read the Community Forum first and assume the platform as a whole is just as heavenly.
Jun 10, 2021 12:55:47 PM by Richard R
In freelancing and business in general its always a good skill to learn how to grow a thick skin.
Thankfully I worked at a fast food restaurant for many years as a cashier and assistant manager, and I definately have learned how to brush these kinds of things off to the side.
Jun 11, 2021 05:42:30 AM by Liz S
Haha yes, nothing like working in hospitality to give you a thick skin!
Jun 14, 2021 07:22:29 AM Edited Jun 14, 2021 07:22:56 AM by Mikko R
Liz S wrote:Haha yes, nothing like working in hospitality to give you a thick skin!
Indeed, Liz!
Coconut business background is also pretty useful. Can grow a real husk. 😉
Jun 14, 2021 08:57:59 AM by Preston H
If Mikko killed an eel and buried its guts, it would probably sprout a tree, and you'd have coconuts.
Jul 3, 2021 10:25:35 PM by Mikko R
Liz S wrote:
Flexible like an eel, hard like a coconut. The freelancer's way.
Exactly, Liz!! 🥥:desert_island:️🥥
Jun 21, 2021 01:50:49 PM by Ragini A
tempted to accept this as the official solution to my post solely because of the gif you chose 🙂 thank you, everyone, your replies have made me feel so much better since!
Jul 3, 2021 10:22:04 PM by Mikko R
Preston H wrote:If Mikko killed an eel and buried its guts, it would probably sprout a tree, and you'd have coconuts.
Preston, I think you just discovered a new law of nature!!! This is WAY past whatever nearly mundane stuff Einstein tried to do and I'm fairly sure Hawking's face would turn (coconut) green. Now, just sit back and wait for the Nobel Prize! I'm only unsure about the category... could be Physics or Chemistry ... Economics also possible I think. 🤔
But Peace we can rule out. 🤣
PS. If free and interested, I'd like to ask you to co-author something with me next month (I'll post a job and invite you soon). Working title: A Brief History of Coconuts That Grow From Eel Guts. Our minimum aim should be nothing less an Ig Nobel for this new masterpiece of improbable research. And best seller because of the nice rhyme. 🤪
PPS. I'd never kill an innocent eel on purpose. Therefore, the improbability... 😉
Jun 21, 2021 01:07:46 PM by Jennifer V
Once you realize the conversation has become ridiculous, just disengage. Don't argue back, there's nowhere for a conversation like that to go. Don't get tangled up in someone else's warped perspective. But if you must communicate (for instance if you are already in the contract and you have to get through closing out the project), maintain professional communication on your end by focusing on the work and tasks to be done.
I had a (now past) client complain/say as an insult/call me out, literally, for "making my own choices". This happened in a conversation NOT about details/requirements of his project, but just to set up a meeting with the two of us and a third party, working with Upwork support to ensure bringing in a third party wouldn't violate the TOS. I was so floored by the recrimination I didn't address it at all (does he have no expectation of other adults in his life that they have autonomy? This would be really disturbing in a personal relationship and it's absolutely bizarre in a professional relationship). Anyway, I just took care of the tasks needed to fulfill my commitments and closed the contract.
Jul 3, 2021 10:31:12 PM by Mikko R
Jennifer V wrote:Once you realize the conversation has become ridiculous, just disengage.
Jennifer, that might be a good common rule of thumb... However, I would never let ridiculousness be a reason for disengaging from anything with anyone. In fact, I actually require some level of ridiculousness from all my clients. I'd never want to work with totally serious people. What's fun about that? 🤪
I think there are two schools of thought regarding all things ridiculous... 😁
Jul 4, 2021 10:58:12 AM by Jennifer V
Ah Mikko, sounds like you mean "ridiculous" as playful :), where I'm talking about someone acting harmfully or abusively - ridiculously outside of the norm in terms of healthy boundaries, as described in my example.
Jul 3, 2021 05:17:51 PM Edited Jul 3, 2021 05:19:42 PM by Nayab S
Ragini, I've been freelancing for 12 years now. I can give you a one word solution to ALL such clients you're going to meet in the future.
It is "compassion."
These are the only people we have on UpWork and on the planet for that matter. They are all we can work with. *shrugs*
The more intense a person's toxicity, just dial your compassion to meet that same intensity and you'll still be able to smile. That too with clarity. Because you're not reacting from a place of blindedness, but you have some insight into why that person is like that. Understanding people is the biggest power anywhere, and especially in online work.
Now just let Elsa sing "let it go" in your head, and you do just that hhh, I appreciate you for being graceful. It's rare these days.
Cheers!
Nov 3, 2022 06:42:32 PM by Neil Patrick D
How about giving him some advice in return on how not to be greedy and toxic. He definetly needs some help.
Nov 4, 2022 12:08:32 AM by Nichola L
That is bad advice and extremely unprofessional - never engage with this sort of attitude. Surmukh is absolutely right, in a situation like that, move on, unless the client is really abusive (name-calling, swearing etc.), in which case they should be reported.
Nov 3, 2022 11:37:16 PM by Surmukh S
Once you realize the conversation has become ridiculous, and disinterested, Don't get tangled up, just move on, and focus on new potential clients.
Nov 4, 2022 12:37:54 AM by Sudhir K
What you did was the right thing. If you would have taken that assignment and done a bad job, that would have resulted in getting bad client feedback and rating anyways, which could have done more damage to your Upwork profile.
Sometimes working on a project where your skills can be utilized is far more important than making some quick money on this platform.
This is just one bad experience. I am sure there are a lot of projects waiting for you in the future.
The client did not have a good command of English, which sometimes makes them anxious and sound harsh.