Accepting Direct Hire Offers from Client

gina-herrera · ‎12-20-2020

It is extremely frustrating to me that there are certain extremely important things we can't see when a direct offer is extended. Referring back to this post here - https://community.upwork.com/t5/Freelancers/How-can-I-see-a-client-s-profile-page/m-p/637618

Will had mentioned the following very insightful list.

"These are the additional things I'd like to know about potential clients (and would be happy if they knew similar information about me):

1) What have been their average ratings for previous freelancers they worked with?

2) What is the average gap between a client's public ratings and private ratings for freelancers?

3) What percentage of the client's previous projects has used Upwork mediation?

4) What percentage of the client's previous projects has gone to arbitration?

5) How many of their previous projects have they cancelled?"

Originally I had been trying to see if there was a way to view this type of information (most specifically, the rating they left for other freelancers / the written feedback both received and extended), but upon encountering this post it seems Upwork didn't take that concern seriously, which is suprising but at the same time not surprising at all. So my question now is, does anyone have any suggestions with how to vet a client who has already extended an offer without offending them? I have a feeling that most clients expect that if they offer to hire someone at their listed rate, that they are expected to have no reason not to accept. I do always make sure I clear up the full scope of the job and expected deliverables before accepting to make sure I have the exact skills required to complete their tasks, but that's usually a quick and factual conversation. I am trying to figure out ways to make sure they are normal / easygoing / not crazy, which I usually gather through reading feedback left for other freelancers but is not visible in this situation, and I feel like it could seem like I was overly chatty before accepting which also could put them off.

a_lipsey · ‎12-20-2020

Gina H wrote:
It is extremely frustrating to me that there are certain extremely important things we can't see when a direct offer is extended. Referring back to this post here - https://community.upwork.com/t5/Freelancers/How-can-I-see-a-client-s-profile-page/m-p/637618

Will had mentioned the following very insightful list.

"These are the additional things I'd like to know about potential clients (and would be happy if they knew similar information about me):

1) What have been their average ratings for previous freelancers they worked with?
2) What is the average gap between a client's public ratings and private ratings for freelancers?
3) What percentage of the client's previous projects has used Upwork mediation?
4) What percentage of the client's previous projects has gone to arbitration?
5) How many of their previous projects have they cancelled?"

Originally I had been trying to see if there was a way to view this type of information (most specifically, the rating they left for other freelancers / the written feedback both received and extended), but upon encountering this post it seems Upwork didn't take that concern seriously, which is suprising but at the same time not surprising at all. So my question now is, does anyone have any suggestions with how to vet a client who has already extended an offer without offending them? I have a feeling that most clients expect that if they offer to hire someone at their listed rate, that they are expected to have no reason not to accept. I do always make sure I clear up the full scope of the job and expected deliverables before accepting to make sure I have the exact skills required to complete their tasks, but that's usually a quick and factual conversation. I am trying to figure out ways to make sure they are normal / easygoing / not crazy, which I usually gather through reading feedback left for other freelancers but is not visible in this situation, and I feel like it could seem like I was overly chatty before accepting which also could put them off.

Whenever I get a direct offer from someone I haven't ever had a conversation, I always say "Thank you so much for your offer. It's an interesting project, and I'd like to hop on a phone call with you prior to accepting to make sure I understand everything you need and how we'll work together." Never had any pushback. Allows me to vet and make sure it's a good project for me to do. Doesn't necessarily specifically answer the questions you listened, but you can get that gut feeling of whether or not someone is going to be a difficult client or not.

gina-herrera · ‎12-20-2020

Amanda L wrote:
Whenever I get a direct offer from someone I haven't ever had a conversation, I always say "Thank you so much for your offer. It's an interesting project, and I'd like to hop on a phone call with you prior to accepting to make sure I understand everything you need and how we'll work together." Never had any pushback. Allows me to vet and make sure it's a good project for me to do. Doesn't necessarily specifically answer the questions you listened, but you can get that gut feeling of whether or not someone is going to be a difficult client or not.

I feel like you're right, I just hate calls if I can avoid them.. but that might be the only way. If anyone has any suggestions for messenging, that is preferred, but if I don't hear much else I'm going to have to assume that setting up a call is the way no matter how much I dislike it haha.

Also I think my subconcious just wanted to reiterate this issue so that maybe an Upwork employee will actually see it and finally think maybe it's actually a valid concern... you'd think that anything they can do to minimize disputes and potential bad matches would be a priority.

a_lipsey · ‎12-20-2020

Gina H wrote:
Amanda L wrote:
Whenever I get a direct offer from someone I haven't ever had a conversation, I always say "Thank you so much for your offer. It's an interesting project, and I'd like to hop on a phone call with you prior to accepting to make sure I understand everything you need and how we'll work together." Never had any pushback. Allows me to vet and make sure it's a good project for me to do. Doesn't necessarily specifically answer the questions you listened, but you can get that gut feeling of whether or not someone is going to be a difficult client or not.
I feel like you're right, I just hate calls if I can avoid them.. but that might be the only way. If anyone has any suggestions for messenging, that is preferred, but if I don't hear much else I'm going to have to assume that setting up a call is the way no matter how much I dislike it haha.

Also I think my subconcious just wanted to reiterate this issue so that maybe an Upwork employee will actually see it and finally think maybe it's actually a valid concern... you'd think that anything they can do to minimize disputes and potential bad matches would be a priority.

I agree that I want that same information. For me, for the kind of work I do, I won't take a client on without vetting them through a phone interview anyways. I end up having weekly calls with most clients (if not more) anyhow. But I know other fields are not that way, and many people are just fine communicating through messages.

You could use a strategy that I picked up from a fellow freelancer that I currently use with invites. Before I move to the phone call stage, I send the client an "intake" form that requests relevant information about their project, their organization/company, and other information that is relevant to me vetting them both as my client and for the specific work they want done (is the work feasible even). You could develop your own intake form and when you get a direct offer, simply send them the intake form and ask them to answer all the questions so you can get all the information you need. Then it doesn't seem too chatty because it's one request for information (with multiple questions). Then you can accept or decline based on the results. Or take a call if you want to vet further.

wlyonsatl · ‎06-25-2021

Amanda L.,

I have a list of 6 - 7 questions I always include in my initial response to a direct offer or an invitation and an even longer list of information and questions I fill out during my first call with a potential client.

The longer list has items that don't apply to every potential project, so I'd expect it would be offputting to some clients who really just want to get started on their project. (Some potential clients would think spending 15 minutes filling out a list was a waste of their time but spending 30 - 45 minutes on a call with me is no problem, but such is client logic).

For my own part, I would never consider agreeing to a contract with a new client without having at least one VOIP or Zoom call. Having read posts on this message board for quite a few years, I have no doubt that a common cause for disagreements, cancellations, refund requests, etc. is due to poor vetting of projects by freelancers and ignorance or dishonesty on the part of clients. Complete clarity upfront is the freelancer's friend, even when it is common that later changes are going to be made to a project.

But there are probably both clients and freelancers who really don't want to have conversations with strangers and there may be project types that don't require regular conversations for successful completion of some projects. And my requirement for at least one call may be the reason I don't get replies to many of my responses to requests for proposals, but it's a small price to pay for reducing the likelihood of later problems on a project.