Are there fake job proposals?

[8a76fbed]

Hello,

I just want to understand whether the job proposals are real on Upwork and whether Upwork is a viable platform.

Over the last 9 months, I have not received any interview offers, despite submitting around 70 proposals, all of which were paid proposals (with bids). All the proposals were aligned with my professional expertise, so it's not just a matter of "sending proposals for the sake of it".

What's even stranger is that none of the proposals seem to have been viewed by clients. It appears like some job postings may be made solely for the purpose of posting, without any real intention of hiring. Otherwise, I cannot understand how jobs are being filled and whether clients are genuinely seeking candidates on the platform.

This situation seems to involve "fake" jobs and renders the platform ineffective for finding work, or ....I do not know how someone could find the job there, I understand any term, but 9 months ... not any interview...looks like it's just the desk with some job offers and connects selling.

Some of messaging which I had were empty and more common to grabing information rather then real interest in my services. The other contacts simply asked sumbit on ther position and then nothing. Do you know what the sense of it? Cause noone then returned back, why to asked, maybe offer ranking or reduce the price with other potential freelancer other then me? hm...

Does anyone have a positive experience and can confirm with real examples, rather than just saying "I found XYZ". I'm looking for genuine experiences.

[yofazza]

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You seem to be assuming that Upwork doesn't have a team of lawyers themselves, who would have looked over their ToS and ensured that it was water-tight (especially since Upwork is located in America where everybody sues over every little thing). These scams have been going on for years, so if anyone had a viable case, don't you think they would have sued Upwork by now? 

I know, that's why I specifically mentioned "negligence". I'm very well aware that companies like this has ToS' that worked-out a lot to protect their interests.

But their ToS are not bulletproof, I think. There was a case where someone in California was denied payment protection but managed to reverse it after threatening to file a lawsuit. They seem to afraid to some lawsuit threats.

I'm just saying (without a legal background of course) that it might be possible to sue this company on the basis of negligence, although it doesn't really make sense if it's done by freelancers on this "scam fake job posts" problem.

It must be done by a client on some specific scams, where it will be hard for Upwork to deny that they are not doing the negligence.

you can't sue them for negligence if they never promised to protect you in the first place

That's why I always said "IMO & AFAIK"; it's not like that. They can be sued for negligence without them having to promise anything before. If they allow crime happening repeatedly, under their watch, not preventing it, it's negligence. Worse if they profit from the crimes.

For the rest, yes I often said, "bet wisely if you want, don't get caught in the game".

[feed_my_eyes]

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 wrote:

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But their ToS are not bulletproof, I think. There was a case where someone in California was denied payment protection but managed to reverse it after threatening to file a lawsuit. They seem to afraid to some lawsuit threats.

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When did that happen? Are you sure that it's because someone threatened a lawsuit, or was it because Upwork successfully fought a chargeback? There's a ton of misinformation and confusion about how chargebacks work.

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 wrote:

That's why I always said "IMO & AFAIK"; it's not like that. They can be sued for negligence without them having to promise anything before. If they allow crime happening repeatedly, under their watch, not preventing it, it's negligence. Worse if they profit from the crimes.

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So again, the word "allow" doesn't apply. Crime is not "allowed", and in what way is Upwork profitting? People here are claiming that Upwork doesn't take down scams, but every time I've reported one, the job has been removed and I got my connects back. They lose a ton of money due to fraud every year and from having to cover payment protection on hourly projects. You'd have a hard time convincing a judge that Upwork wants criminals on their website.

The bottom line is that new freelancers are given the ToS and told to read it when they sign up, and have to click a box saying that they agree to abide by the terms. So if they break the rules and go on Telegram and agree to get paid off of Upwork - which accounts for around 99% of the scams here - it's their own fault. If you sign a contract and something goes wrong, you can't then turn around and say, "But it's not my fault, because I didn't actually read it." You think that'll stand up in court? 

[yofazza]

Are you sure that it's because someone threatened a lawsuit, or was it because Upwork successfully fought a chargeback? There's a ton of misinformation and confusion about how chargebacks work.

I'm fully aware of how chargebacks work, I think I always "defend" Upwork when a freelancer blamed them on these cases. But, not on the "uneligible for protection" part.

Here's the thread. I'm not certain, but since he's also in California, it shouldn't be hard for him to wrote a convincing threat to Upwork Support about filing a lawsuit, to question some of the "bendable rules" of the payment protection.

For the rest, I think I always mentioned in every post that I'm not specifically suggesting to sue Upwork on this scam/fake job post cases. Or even for the freelancers to do the suing. I know it's hard (although not entirely impossible).

I mentioned that it might be feasible for clients, on some specific cases, to sue the company.

[feed_my_eyes]

Nope, there's zero evidence in that thread that Upwork was quaking in their shoes over an empty threat to call the attorney general. There's no way of knowing what exactly happened.

[2297e2bc]

The problem is I HAVE wasted connects on the scam job before removal and I DO NOT get them back - so the real harm is to anyone who applies for a falke jopb that looks all to real. Some so called clients have even carried on "interviews", whcih sounded quite valid. Then they leave the planet!

So CATCH and RELEASE is not the correct answer. It is like letting drugs in the country and then fixing it at theproblem hospital.

Monitization of EVERY USER is the only way this will resolve itself. Again take away the cah flow-the drug users dissappear!  Am I not correct???

The same problem was created with free E-mail and unlimited phone service.

[the-right-writer]

The problem is I HAVE wasted connects on the scam job before removal and I DO NOT get them back -

If Upwork determines it's a scam, they will return connects, unless the freelancer participates in the scam.

If you don't receive them, contact Upwork. This is one area where they do refund connects.

[spectralua]

I think that most of jobposts is dummy.

Upwork need activity. But no activity possible without clients. I mean real activity. So bots and spammers are welcomed.

[2297e2bc]

So right! But these businesses cut off their own noses eventually. Then they Re-think the gormat. Then start again.

How many times have you seen the same Matress Store go in and out of business???

[8a76fbed]

What I see as a fair solution that would satisfy everyone is to bring more transparency to Upwork. For example, why not reveal the real contacts of the job posters on Upwork? Such as company name, LinkedIn profile, etc. I understand it's a question of the 20% commission, but I believe monetization could be changed in a way that would generate the same income without the commission. Instead, everyone would see more transparently what's going on. Honestly, customers may see your personal details, your experience, your portfolio, and it all looks like you are sharing some part of your personal info but in return, you receive nothing. I think it's a bad exchange, and what I would ask is to bring more transparency at least.

Well, I am leaving unfortunately Upwork, will try develop other channels to sale services. Thanks!

[tjmisny]

Sadly I think the reason this will NEVER happen is: Upwork wants us all to be bidding on the dead-end jobs.  If we only bid on the verifiable jobs, then Upwork is more than halfing its income from Connects... since an overwhelming majority of jobs seem to be dead-ends where untested clients do not hire.  This is why many of us refer to Upwork as a Casino-type experience - because every time you spend money Connects and Advertising here you are gambling due to the sheer number of dead-end clients.  

[2297e2bc]

Maybe, just maybe - if they would not be so greedy,  WE, the actual supporters of their company, could have a benefit. What they are doing is almost as slap in the face as Tweeters blue star fee. But hey, no one has left that platform either.

In the 70's love made the world go around - now it;s purely greed.

[2297e2bc]

Ive been saying monitize for months.

And I do agree that sharing ANY personal data is bad on any web entity.

[feed_my_eyes]

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 wrote:

What I see as a fair solution that would satisfy everyone is to bring more transparency to Upwork. For example, why not reveal the real contacts of the job posters on Upwork? Such as company name, LinkedIn profile, etc.

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That's not a workable solution in any way, shape or form. If names, Linked In profiles etc. were listed, freelancers would contact clients directly and bypass Upwork entirely, which means Upwork would make no money from connects to apply, and no money from fees; so you just want them to run this website for free?

Also, what's stopping a scammer from saying, for example, that their name is Bill Gates and they work for Microsoft? Dumb freelancers fall for stuff like that all the time, then they'll go off platform and get scammed - just like they do now.

[denpp]

same case to me, while i am experienced 

[crart]

Platform is no longer viable and trustworthy since you cannot trust a casino. Around 95% of "jobs" in my field are fake or asking for AI, which is illegal and frown upon by professionals like me, which ends up in idiot kids being "hired", if there is even real person behind those "job posts". Remaining 5% real clients flee screaming because receiving 50+ irrelevant proposals from bots and unqualified people, generated by chatgpt, in first 5 minutes the job is posted is not fun and they don't trust the platform anymore.

Management of this dead place clearly profits because casino always wins (and they "worked" hard to milk people dry and implement features that bring even more money for services they no longer provide, which in my country, for example, is illegal and an offence prosecuted ex officio) but days of UW as a professional platform are long over. This is now even worse than freelancer[dot]com which is known for being endless pit of doom.

[44eba88d]

Yes, you are right, I have the same experience.

[williamtcooper]

Andrii,

Your Profile needs to be set to public via the settings so it can be viewed.

Next, click the above Academy link for success tips.

Upwork has around $1 Billion in quarterly sales which has been steady for a while so therefore overall Client business is about the same amount.

However, the business environment has changed and more Clients request AI to be part of the Project and many of the freelancers either don't have or don't want AI skills. Therefore, the AI skilled are obtaining more jobs and others less.

This is also happening outside of Upwork. Businesses are moving to AI for their organizational needs.

[AndreaG · Accepted solution]

Hi all,

Several comments have been removed or edited because they violated the Community Guidelines and this thread has now been closed. Please, be mindful of the Community Guidelines and be respectful toward other members when posting.