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Can entering your education years be discriminatory?

colettelewis
Community Guru
Nichola L Member Since: Mar 13, 2015
31 of 37

This is a dating site. You have to specify, when you are 90 years old, that you only want bimbos or toyboys of 30 or under. That's how it works.  (and hey - if the money's right . . .)

charles_kozierok
Community Guru
Charles K Member Since: Mar 6, 2017
32 of 37

@Jennifer M wrote:
snowflakes

You keep using that word. I do not think it means what you think it means.

 

The OP asked a simple question: would she get discriminated against if she made her age clear by mentioning when she went to school. I said yes, and explained why I thought she might be. Hardly anyone has disputed this, though some people seem to believe she shouldn't care about this. That's fine, but nobody is asking for special treatment or being a "snowflake".

 

The people who report jobs saying "no Indians" or "nobody over 50" or whatnot also are not being "snowflakes". They may be offended at being excluded for what they believe to not be a valid reason, but they are just as entitled their feelings as you are to yours. You seem to take great pride in being blunt, and if that works for you, great. Others are different, and that's perfectly fine.

 

Furthermore, those people are following the TOS of the site. If a client wants to hire under conditions contrary to the site TOS then he or she is free to pick a different site upon which to list his or her job. Or is there some reason that discriminatory clients have a right to be choosy but Upwork does not?

 

At the end of the day though, who is really being the "snowflake" in most of these situations -- the freelancer saying "I just want a fair chance at the job based on my skills and qualifications and not what I look like or where I come from or how many revolutions I've been on the planet for or what wobbly bits I possess" or the client saying "my receipts can only be entered into Excel by a 5'2" blond male Swahili-speaking chain-smoking rhythmic gymnast from Peru"?

tlsanders
Community Guru
Tiffany S Member Since: Jan 15, 2016
33 of 37

@Charles K wrote:

 

But a profile, like a resume, is a form of advertising, and that means putting your best foot forward. If there's something in there that isn't making you more likely to be hired, or worse, making you less likely, I think you should remove it.

 

This explains a lot--we have a fundamental disagreement about the purpose of a resume/profile/presumably interview. I recognize that your approach is much more common than mine, but I'm not looking to "be hired." I'm looking to find the right fit for both of us, and if true things about me are a turn-off to a prospective employer or client, I'd rather we both found that out asap and didn't waste each other's time.

 

I believe it is unfortunate when someone decides not to do business with someone based on prejudgments that actually have no bearing on whether or not the person would be good to do business with. Regardless of the form of business or the prejudgment. It means that bias is taking the place of reason to the likely detriment of at least one party, and possibly all concerned. I'm not sure what I can possibly say to explain further; if you disagree, you disagree.

 

Is this unfortunate? I believe so. YMMV.

 

Is it unfortunate that some people have biases that have no objective basis? Perhaps. However, having those biases, I would MUCH rather the client recognized them and refrained from creating a negative situation for everyone involved. 


 

lysis10
Community Guru
Jennifer M Member Since: May 17, 2015
34 of 37

Wouldn't having older dates be an advantage here? I fool everyone and went to the collage in my 30's. huehuehuehue

 

At least you actually went to the collage. Lots of the people posting here you just know barely got through grade school let alone has that master's degree in 2 years.

browersr
Community Guru
Scott B Member Since: Nov 20, 2015
35 of 37

Although the conversation has veered a bit, I wanted to respond to some of what I read above.

 

While I understand the sentiment that says, if you don't want X, Y, or Z, post it and save us all time; there is (or should be) a line.  Frankly I do not want to associate myself with a site that allows postings that say don't apply if you are black, Jewish, Indian, Russian, Muslim, etc.  Are there clients on this site that would try to suss those things out? Probably just as in "real life".  I am certainly not suggesting it doesn't exist or people don't feel that way.  I am suggesting that a site that allows such overt racism, sexism, etc., is not a site I want to attach my name to or in anyway do business with.  

 

Now I do understand there is a way on this site to limit regions.  However, I take that in a more practical sense in terms of time zones, language, proximity, etc.  Just to get ahead of anyone suggesting that is somehow inappropriate bias allowed.

 

 

yitwail
Community Guru
John K Member Since: Feb 17, 2015
36 of 37

I don't want to debate anyone about this, but for reference purposes, I'll quote one example of prohibited site or site services use from Upwork Terms of Use (https://www.upwork.com/legal/terms-of-use/):

 

  • Expressing a preference in a job post or proposal or otherwise unlawfully discriminating on the basis of race, religion, color, national origin, ancestry, physical or mental disability, medical condition, genetic information, marital status, sex, gender, gender identity, gender expression, age, sexual orientation, military/veteran status or any basis protected by applicable law;

 

 

__________________________________________________
"No good deed goes unpunished." -- Clare Boothe Luce
tlbp
Community Guru
Tonya P Member Since: Nov 26, 2015
37 of 37

I work with clients of all ages. If some potential clients are screening me out because of my age, I haven't noticed. I believe that ageism is more prevalent in employment markets because many employers believe (right or wrong) that hiring an older employee increases their associated benefits costs. Additionally, employees with seniority usually cost more in terms of base salary. In the freelance world, you pay your own way on benefits and healthcare. Clients only pay for skills (which may be evidenced by experience) not years in a seat. 

 

Maybe there are clients who invest the time to scroll past great reviews and relevant work samples to find your education data and do the math. But that isn't something I worry about. 

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