Contract dispute

[bookkeepers10]

Hi all,

Unfortunately this is my second dispute with a client. the first one was my mistake (i already publsihed a topic about it and admitted it) but this time it is really not my bad!

the client and I agreed on specific things with very limited working hours, according to what he was explaining to me i agreed because it did not need more than that limited hours (5 hours/week). and to get more accurate results i assigned myself new tasks without charging them (we also agreed on that before we started the work). i did this because he did not ask me to do them but it was essential from my side to do it to get the accurate results he is looking for. the person is not aware of the standards i have to apply. after 2 weeks of working for free and more than 5 hours/day (the agreed time was 5 hours/week, can you see the difference?). he started to assign new tasks to me without extending or increasing the working hours. i did not mind it because they were with few working hours as well. now he started to complain and doubt what i am doing and he defends himself by saying "this does not make any sense" I explained him many times how i got the results and how the common sense is different than the standards. this is really stressing me out and i really want to cancel my contract but worried about the feedback he may give me! if i cancel the contract it will be my 2nd cancelled contract out of 4 unfortunately. this time is really not my fault! i took also screenshots of the conversations to protect myself. the question now, do you think there is a way to avoid his potential feedback? if i use the screenshot would it be in my side?

[petra_r]

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Nidhal A wrote:

the question now, do you think there is a way to avoid his potential feedback? if i use the screenshot would it be in my side?

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Only by fixing the relationship with the client or by refunding everything, but that would have as big a negative effect on your metrics as poor feedback.

Why would you work 5 hours a day and only charge a fifth of your profile rate for only one hour you log? 

There is nothing noble about working for virtually free for clients who wouldn't know how to appreciate what you do. It destroys your profile, your metrics (when you get a Job Success Score it will be apallingly low) and trains clients to expect freelancers to work for nothing.

[bookkeepers10]

You are totally right, we all do mistakes and i did this one because i want to build my client's base. i am still new to upwork and you can see that and i thought specially with these difficult days, this way can help me to build my client's base but unfortunately i learnt a very harsh lesson.

thank you so much for your reply, i really appreciate it.

[petra_r · Accepted solution]

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Nidhal A wrote:

You are totally right, we all do mistakes and i did this one because i want to build my client's base. i am still new to upwork and you can see that and i thought specially with these difficult days, this way can help me to build my client's base but unfortunately i learnt a very harsh lesson.

thank you so much for your reply, i really appreciate it.

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Problem is... This is by far the biggest contract you have had, so when you get a JSS it will weigh very heavily. So much for "building your profile."

That said, why don't you talk to the client? Not arguing, not trying to jutify, not trying to play the victim.

Just telling the client that yes, sure, you'll love to do the extra work, but it will take X extra hours, can he please up the hourly limit.

If he doesn't, tell him that unfortunately you hit the weekly limit and can't do more.

This isn't a dispute situation, this is just super basic contract- and client-management. Both are very important skills for a freelancer.

[bookkeepers10]

i did not play the role of victim honestly speaking! i explained the situation to get an advice.

however, thanks alot, we have a chat and solved the problem.

[petra_r]

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Nidhal A wrote:

i did not play the role of victim honestly speaking! 

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I didn't say you did. I said you should not do so.

[reena-dwall]

Hi Guys 

It was first time I ever seen that Upwork is not seeing at Victim (Freelancer) who worked for a client, client deleted several milestone and ended the contract and after that I'm struggling to get the escrow amount.

1. I have showed the proof of work which clearly states that I have completed 60% of work 
2. I have showed proof of, that client has downloaded the code from my server to his server using an hacking trick, while we were in group discussion of disputed contract
3. You know client has deleted the a log file where were managing the task and its completeion status, I have showed this things as well to Upwork mediator who is handlign this part to resolve

But what I'm seeing that the mediator is clearly saying that if I will not file the arbitration and pay arbitration charge then amount will goes to client amount
So Its mean all presure is on freelancer even he worked for client, invest his time and now he has to fight for money as well even after showing the proof of work
Let me know what should I do now  ?

Dispute Case for Contract ID # 28210697

Thanks

[petra_r]

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Reena v wrote:

But what I'm seeing that the mediator is clearly saying that if I will not file the arbitration and pay arbitration charge then amount will goes to client amount

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Upwork can't make a legally binding decision as to who gets the escrow funds. Only arbitration can.

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Reena v wrote:

Let me know what should I do now  ?

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If you are sure of your case, you can pay the arbitration fee and hope that the client will then see that they can't get anywhere. If you pay the arbitration fee and the client does not, you get the arbitration fee back and all the money left in escrow.

[reena-dwall]

Understood but why this pressure is not on Client ? 
Why on me only, why client is not being say the same if you want this moeny back then you need to file arbitration fee and get your money from escrow and the fee of arbitration as well 

Even I'm also the part of upwork and playing much enough role to give revenue to upwork from every project I do for clients 

If upwork would not take decision who get the escrow amount then who is taking the decision to give refund back to client, is not me actually

[petra_r]

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Reena v wrote:

Understood but why this pressure is not on Client ? 

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Huh? It is.

The fact that the freelancer has the chance to pay first is GOOD for the freelancer, because they can call the client's bluff. If the client then doesn't pay, you get your arbitration money back and the escrow funds.

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Reena v wrote:

If upwork would not take decision who get the escrow amount then who is taking the decision to give refund back to client, is not me actually

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Because your refusal to use arbitration would mean that you concede the dispute and the other party wins.

[reena-dwall]

My concern not about that but if you file 291 USD arbitration for 350 USD does it make sense ?

I'm scared of upwork view on this matter how they are handling my matter 
If suppose the arbitration team said the same that we are just here to provide the mediation between but we can take favor any side then
I will have double loss of Moeny gone, Time gone, Code gone, even a client which I have already lost

Even I'm sure I will win this dispute but locking 291 USD for 350 USD does it make sens  ?
Again I have to explain the things to that arbitration team and again need to invest time 
thats why I'm trying to explain you and Karen the mediator that this matter is crystal clear
client has download the code even we are in discuss and solving this dispute but I'm not listening this thing

Moeny will goes to client account if you did not file the Arbitration of 291 

[petra_r]

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Reena v wrote:

My concern not about that but if you file 291 USD arbitration for 350 USD does it make sense ?

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It does because the client probably won't pay.

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Reena v wrote:

I'm trying to explain you and Karen the mediator that this matter is crystal clear
 

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It doesn't matter. It is irrelevant how "clear" you think it is.

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Reena v wrote:

If suppose the arbitration team said the same that we are just here to provide the mediation between but we can take favor any side then

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No, that is not what arbitration does. Arbitration is an independent third party.

Mediation = mediates

Arbitration = arbitrates.

[NikolaS]

Hi Reena,

We won't be able to discuss details of a specific dispute cases here in the Community in order to protect the privacy of our users. And I encourage you to refer to the open case you have with our team for guidance and information.

In general, when the release of funds in Escrow is disputed, a dispute specialist will assist both parties in reaching a mutual agreement. If the client and freelancer are unable to come to a mutual agreement, the dispute specialist may provide a non-binding recommendation as part of the process. If the recommendation is rejected, the client and freelancer may choose to proceed to arbitration for a fee. Detailed information about the process can be found in the Fixed Price Service Contract Escrow Instructions

[wlyonsatl]

Petra,

You are wrong to say "Upwork can't make a legally binding decision as to who gets the escrow funds. Only arbitration can."

According to Upwork's own legal documentation a "Release Condition" of escrow held by Upwork can be released at Upwork's sole discretion to either a freelancer or a client under certain conditions:

https://www.upwork.com/legal#escrow-hourly

"Upwork’s Escrow , Section 5.1 Item 7.

We believe, in our sole discretion, that fraud, an illegal act, or a violation of Upwork's Terms of Service has been committed or is being committed or attempted, in which case Client and Freelancer hereby irrevocably authorize and instruct Upwork Escrow to take such actions as we deem appropriate in our sole discretion and in accordance with applicable law, in order to prevent or remedy such acts, including without limitation to return the funds associated with such acts to their source of payment."

[wlyonsatl]

Nidhal A.

We have been told on this board that once you agree to an Upwork contract the client has the permanent ability to leave feedback for you, regardless whether you or the client eventually close the contract, or there is dispute that ends up being mediated or arbitrated.

And the only thing achieved by fully refunding payments made to you by the client under any contract is deletion of the client's written public feedback from your profile, which we have been told is significantly less important than the client's unerasable private feedback for the calculation of your Job Success Score.

I don't doubt that some clients are placated by having some or all of the money they've paid to a freelancer being refunded by the freelancer, but it's probably a demand that at least some clients use to lower or elimiinate their projects costs.

This is why I wish Upwork would make public the number of times a client has had refunds on their Upwork projects, and how many times they've been involved in mediation or arbitration.

And keep in mind that Upwork has said that feedback from historically difficult-to-deal-with clients will be excluded from the JSS calculation of those client's freelancers. Unfortunately, Upwork hasn't said it also deletes the public written feedback by those same clients.

https://support.upwork.com/hc/en-us/articles/211068358-Job-Success-Score

"We understand that some projects have bad outcomes because the client is difficult to work with. So we track freelancer feedback of clients and flag those clients with a history of poor collaboration. If one of your clients has been flagged (or has been suspended for Terms of Service violations), then the client's feedback will not count against your score."

Good luck.

[reena-dwall]

Well, I can be ready to file Arbitration if they promise me to release the amount 60% of contract(2000x60%) as client get code of 60% work done 
So I can file arbitration of 291USD  for 1200 USD
Kindly suggest

[petra_r]

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Reena v wrote:

So I can file arbitration of 291USD  for 1200 USD

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You can only file arbitration for the funds in escrow, not for future funds.