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Discrepancy in the feedback removal perk

Community Leader
Piush P Member Since: Apr 29, 2015
1 of 12

Today I would like to discuss upon 2 very serious issues/discrepancy in "feedback removal perk" rules and its entire terms. As per my thinking upwork should take immediate action on this matter so our system could more fair with us Smiley Happy

1. Date Concern:

As per current rules, freelancer need to done/ended/completed 10 jobs (minimum) once they use feedback removal perk. So my thing is very simple but much meaningful because the current related rules are going in unfair side, just due to a little mistake.....  Let me explain why and how....

Suppose I used "Feedback Removal Perk" on 1st Jan, and that time there were 1 or more jobs as “in-progress" status… And if my one or more clients ended “in-progress” contracts on same day when I used “Feedback Removal Perk”, means these jobs wont be count in "feedback removal perk counter” because they ended on same day…. Smiley Sad

It is totally unfair. Because for freelancer, every jobs are very important for them as they did hard works/affords to complete them. So why freelancer will punish if client ended some jobs on same day when freelancer already used feedback removal perk? It is client side control where freelancer cant say to end some particular jobs for next day (I accept some clients can consider this type of request but it is not the legal/right way for this purpose).
 
OVERALL FREELANCER’S EACH JOB PLAY A VERY IMPORTANT ROLE SO THEY SHOULD NOT BE USELESS FOR THEM, JUST BECAUSE SAME DATE ISSUE.
SO IT IS MY HUMBLE REQUEST TO UPWORK MANAGER TO LOOK INTO THIS DISCREPANCY.

2. Zero Earning:

If any job ended with zero earning, they wont be count in feedback removal perk minimum criteria (10-jobs). WHY? It is again a high level of discrepancy in this rule, because "feedback removal perk" is the only way where freelancer can improve his/her JSS after the wrong decision of his/her past clients, and if JSS can hugely down OR affect by these zero earning jobs (in case of negative feedback)… Than they should be also count in "feedback removal perk" counter too. If it wont be count in feedback removal counter means it will triple punishment for freelancer:

1. Freelancer already wasted his/her time with these type of jobs so it is already punishment for them by wrong/clever/cheater clients.
2. JSS will down, because with zero earning job none of client will leave nice feedback for freelancer. No matter if freelancer was right.
3. Freelancer cant use these kind of jobs (zero earning) in “Feedback Removal Perk counter”.

Conclusion: In most of cases freelancer already punish by zero earring jobs, because they lost not only “time and money” but also JSS too. And if it wont be count in perk counter means it will totally UNFAIR THING FOR THEM Smiley Sad


SUGGESTIONS:  
1. Upwork should display the "Feedback Removal Jobs Counter" in MY STATS page. So it could be more convenient for all users.
2. Feedback Removal Jobs Counter is based upon number of completed jobs which is not finite OR fair, because small jobs can be complete easily 10 or more within 90 days while huge budget single job need at least 1-3 months for its completion.
For example, I am a lead mobile game developer and most of time my job is related to its budget $1k-5k. Means I cant finish any of single job before 2-3 months or some time more… so when I will finish 10 jobs??? In other words you can say this criteria will useless for mobile developer or other freelancers who work for huge budget jobs. So instead of number of jobs, upwork should fix the particular amount for its eligibility criteria. Such as: Minimum $5k earnings after using job removal perk or more…

Community Guru
Petra R Member Since: Aug 3, 2011
2 of 12

Really?

Frankly maybe the perk should be done away with altogether if it artificially boosts the JSS of people and that is unfair to those who don't use it at all.

 

If you need to use the perk that often you need to fix how you work rather than expect Upwork to adjust it's system to suit your profile.

 

 

 

Community Leader
Piush P Member Since: Apr 29, 2015
3 of 12

"Frankly maybe the perk should be done away with altogether if it artificially boosts the JSS of people and that is unfair to those who don't use it at all".
--- Sorry to say but I am totally disagree with your thinking and very surprised that as a "Community Guru" how you ignored its very important aspect (Feedback removal perk) of current system just because you did not face any high end bad experience in your past (I am not sure but it is also true that low budget jobs has very low risk rather than high end budget jobs because if we will spend much money, our expectation will high as per).
There are uncountable freelancers who are suffering by clever and cheater clients each day and loose not only time and money but also JSS too via fake/wrong decision. So the feedback removal perk is the only one way for them where they can hope for fair things or keep the trust for this platform.

"If you need to use the perk that often you need to fix how you work rather than expect Upwork to adjust it's system to suit your profile".
--- Sometime the truth hurts but again we cant ignore them just because they hurt...we cant apply our paralogism when the picture is already very cleared.

Community Guru
Petra R Member Since: Aug 3, 2011
4 of 12

@Piush P wrote:


(I am not sure but it is also true that low budget jobs has very low risk rather than high end budget jobs because if we will spend much money, our expectation will high as per).


 I am pretty sure my average contract value is considerably higher than yours.

 

 

Community Leader
Piush P Member Since: Apr 29, 2015
5 of 12

"I am pretty sure my average contract value is considerably higher than yours".

--- Than you should much aware than me on this particular topic... Even, I would like to clear that this line was not for you, I mean I am not in competition by this way... it was just a general thing where I was trying to say that low budget jobs has less possibility of loss as compare to high budget jobs because of 2 reasons:

 

1. Client expectation: If client is spending low budget value means they can satisfy easily rather than huge budget jobs so the risk factor will obviously too low as compare to high budget jobs. So my point was why "Feedback Removal" is based upon number of jobs instead of values. Values are much finite set than number of jobs counting for its actual aim.

2. Timeline: Obviously high budget jobs need a long timeline for its successfully completion so freelancer cant complete 10 jobs within 90 days. If I will talk about my experience than I will complete 10 jobs approximate within 6-8 months (sometime it can be long) as its average timeline. So as per this situation, it is almost useless for me to use “Feedback Removal Perk” on its right time....

Community Guru
Petra R Member Since: Aug 3, 2011
6 of 12

Piush, honestly, your energy would be much better spent avoiding situations where you need to use your perk in the first place than trying to get Upwork to change its business model, especially with clients (who after all bring the money to Upwork) already complaining about the perk...

It's meant as a rarely needed safety net, not something to use regularly.

 

 

Community Leader
Piush P Member Since: Apr 29, 2015
7 of 12

I agree with you this time and I hope this thing is already well known for all other users too. But the question is if client come with his/her cleverness and taking the advantage of weak system and grab the freelancer work as free... than who will control them and if feedback removal perk wont be strong than who will take the right decision for those freelancers who are already working hard with full of honesty but just cheated with that type of clients because they were much clever…
For example: My one recent past client gave me 20% upfront than said to submit my work progress step by step. I had done his all the art work + completed his code work and submitted one by one to get his approval. He was very happy and approved my each work one by one but when he collected my each art work he ended the contract without any of prior information/discussion with me. And when I woke up next day, I got the mail from upwork support that he filed the dispute against me. I was shocked because everything was good last night and he approved my each work already so where was the issue… I really could not understand that why he did this type of thing with me. But later, I realised that he cheated me because he got my full art work only within 20% of payment and now his aim has been already completed. After a long struggle when upwork could not help me much on this topic than I realised that I have only 2 options now: First I refund him so I could save my public profile by his fake/false review OR remain his false statement with my profile and explain to my each new clients that I was not wrong. And second, I use my “feedback removal perk” to save my JSS loss by this bad incidence which has dropped my JSS 100% to 92%.

 

Conclusion: If clients are much important for business model than we should not forget that freelancers are heart of this business... if these things wont be controlled and happened rapidly without any control means this business will remain as only MODEL at all.

Community Guru
John K Member Since: Feb 17, 2015
8 of 12

@Petra R wrote:

Really?

Frankly maybe the perk should be done away with altogether if it artificially boosts the JSS of people and that is unfair to those who don't use it at all.


Petra, feedback removal is the only protection a freelancer has against abusive feedback.  So to address the fairness issue, I would rather it be made available to all freelancers but with additional restrictions. For instance, instead of once every 10 jobs/3 months, it could be once every 20 jobs/6 months, if a freelancer isn't top rated.

__________________________________________________
"No good deed goes unpunished." -- Clare Boothe Luce
Community Leader
Piush P Member Since: Apr 29, 2015
9 of 12

Agree!!!
It can be fair things as per John, but it cant be the solution to remove feedback removal perk as its solution, because I have seen that lot of current clients are taking advantage of weak system and if it will remove means it will support them to cheat without any control further…

Moderator
Goran V Moderator Member Since: Mar 24, 2017
10 of 12

Hi Piush,

Thank you for your feedback, I will share this with our team.


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