Dispute, please HELP

[esraa-sam]

Hello,

I translated four files containing more than 1,800 words. The client said he did not like my translation, asked for a refund, and ended the contract. I have already filed a dispute (#10148320), then he sent a small file to say that he translated the whole four files again, but this is not real. He just changed some words. It makes no sense to take my work for free just because of some alterations. Please help me. I do not want to prolong this or talk with this client again. I need to end this issue without any harmful effect on my profile. What can I do?

Thanks.

[colettelewis]

Esraa, 

If you have already filed a dispute, then follow what customer service tells you to do, and make sure you do it within the time limit.  Upwork will try to mediate between you and your client and will come up with a recommendation, which either you or your client can refuse. If you and your client can't come to some kind of agreement, the next step would be arbitration, which is quite a costly process for you, the client and Upwork, so it's better to avoid it if you can. 

If it were me I would wait and see what the Upwork mediators propose, and if it is a compromise (partial payment, for example), I would accept and then use my top-rated perk to completely remove the client's feedback which is not likely to be good. You could still suggest a compromise to the client, which if he were to accept, would avert all the fuss and wasted time of a dispute. 

If no compromise is possible, you could take it to arbitration and call your client's bluff, but I would only go there as a last resort.  

[wlyonsatl]

Esraa S.,

Arbitration will cost you and your client $291 each. If your project's total value was much less than $2,410 it is unlikely Upwork would allow you to go to arbitration anyway, considering that Upwork also has to spend $291 if the matter goes to arbitration. 

Just follow the Upwork mediator's requirements and requests and see how it all turns out for you. 

Good luck!

[colettelewis]

Will,

I would be interested to know where you get that sum from. As far as I am aware, there is no lower limit for taking a dispute to arbitration. Perhaps the ToS on this has changed?  Some freelancers have this amount set aside, should an arbitration occur. Sometimes arbitration is a question of principle not money. 

[wlyonsatl]

Hi, Nichola.

$2,410 is the amount of project value that provides Upwork with $291 of fee income - Upwork's cost of agreeing to pay for arbitration. (Please check my math.)

I don't have any reason to believe this is a hard cut-off point for Upwork to agree to arbitration, but clearly Upwork is not going to agree to pay $291 for arbitration on a project valued at $50, or even $500. It's a business decision for a company that has ongoing losses, so it makes more sense to pay out, say, $200 to make a freelancer happy rather than go to arbitration.

As far as I know, Upwork has never indicated there is a hard dollar limit on project values it allows to go to arbitration, But we have been told a freelancer who wanted to go to arbitration says, “The mediator insisted that a third-party arbitration is no need to go forward on my case because is time-consuming and costs money.” 

What are my chances of winning a third-party ... - Upwork Community

[feed_my_eyes]

Yes, your math is way off if you think it makes more sense for Upwork to hand over $2410 instead of taking a loss of $291 (or even $582, in cases where the freelancer loses arbitration). Every single time I've seen a freelancer mention being paid a courtesy credit, it was for less than $100.

[feed_my_eyes]

---

Will L wrote:

Esraa S.,

Arbitration will cost you and your client $291 each. If your project's total value was much less than $2,410 it is unlikely Upwork would allow you to go to arbitration anyway, considering that Upwork also has to spend $291 if the matter goes to arbitration. 

---

Upwork sometimes offers both parties a courtesy credit if it's a trifling amount of money, but I've never heard of them "not allowing" the parties to go to arbitration, nor that the threshold is $2,410.

[wlyonsatl]

Do you now understand where the $2,410 figure comes from, Christine?

Did you read the post where a freelancer was told by Upwork that the dispute could not go to arbitration because its value was too low to be worthwhile?

[feed_my_eyes]

Your conclusion is based on one post (link?) and not the countless posts in which freelancers and clients go to mediation and are told to either compromise or pay for arbitration? ETA: never mind, I saw the link now. The OP in that thread said that Upwork paid him $75, so I still don't see where you're getting $2410 from. Upwork's share of the arbitration fee is $291, so why wouldn't it be worth it for them to pay that instead of nearly $2000 more (it's obvious to me that for a freelancer to drop their case, Upwork would have to agree to compensate them for the whole value of the project, or close to it). And the OP said that the mediator persuaded them to take a deal - which is the whole point of mediation - he says that he opted not to pursue it, not that Upwork flat-out refused to allow it.

[wlyonsatl]

OK, Christine, I would have thought you could do the math to get to the $2,410 figure. It's Upwork's breakeven point (please do check my math), where Upwork's $291 share of the cost of arbitration is matched by the amount of fees Upwork earns on a project. I don't think Upwork would spend substantially more for arbitration than the amount of fees it stands to earn on the same project.

If you cannot do that math, let me know and I'll break it down for you.

Oh, and nothing in Upwork's fixed price Terms of Service requires Upwork to pay a freelancer for the full amount of a dispute. That's ultimately supposed to be a matter for an arbitrator to decide, after non-bindig mediation has failed to satisfy freelancer and/or client.

And winning arbitration is only means for a freelancer to pursue the client through a legal system for the amount in question. Upwork is out of the payment picture once arbitration starts.

To its credit, we know Upwork may offer partial coverage of disputed amounts to freelancers and return all or part of the value of a project to the client. 

If anything I (or you) have said here is wrong, I would hope an Upwork mediator (or moderator) would step in and make any necessary corrections.

[wlyonsatl]

Christine, I showed you a case where a freelancer who posted here said Upwork didn't allow him to take his dispute to arbitration. And what amounts to "trifling" for Upwork is unknown, but I'd bet it's closer to zero than it is to $2,410.

And yes, it is helpful that Upwork will offer a "courtesy credit" to either or both freelancer and client, but the amount of that credit is unlikely to total more than $291.

We will likely never know those numbers for sure, but Upwork is a business, not a charity.

[feed_my_eyes]

My purpose is not to argue with you, but to offer accurate information for the benefit of anyone else who might be reading:

1. An Upwork mediator might suggest - even strongly suggest - that you accept a lesser payment and/or a courtesy credit instead of going to arbitration, but they cannot deny you that right.

2. There is no payment threshold - $2,410 or otherwise - below which they can deny you arbitration.

[wlyonsatl]

Christine, for the benefit of anyone who might believe what you say is true, what proof do you have  that Upwork will not "deny you arbitration" if the amount of your payment dispute with a client is small. (And you are welcome to define what you think a "small" dispute amount equates to.)

I showed you a post by another freelancer that specifically said his experience was otherwise. And Upwork covering its share of the $291 share of the cost of arbitration for any and all disputes regardless of the value in question makes no sense at all. 

[feed_my_eyes]

I don't believe everything that I read in the forum, since people frequently have an ax to grind and will "massage" the facts. But in any case, this is what the OP said further down in that thread: "I am not proud of myself for accepting this deal but I did not know my chances of winning the dispute and I was not ready to pay for the arbitration fees." This says to me that they were not forced to accept the deal and could have gone to arbitration had they chosen to do so, but feel free to continue interpreting this one post as evidence of your theory.

As for what does or doesn't "make sense", as I've said in the past, it doesn't make sense to me that Upwork offers payment protection or arbitration at all. But they do. Other freelancing websites that I use don't offer anything similar; in fact, at least one charges their commission fee even in cases where the freelancer doesn't get paid - the moment that you accept a project, they take their percentage off of your credit card. People might want to keep that in mind the next time they complain about how unfair Upwork is.

[wlyonsatl]

You're grasping at straws, Christine. What the freelancer thought would happen in arbitration has nothing to do with what the mediator told the freelancer about not even being allowed to go to arbitration. 

Anyway, were you able to confirm my calculation of Upwork's breakeven point on its share of arbitration fees? I am guessing the answer is no, but I'll be glad to help if you need it.

Otherwise, see ya. 

[esraa-sam]

Thank you, but customer service has not introduced a recommendation or suggested a compromise so far.

[esraa-sam · Accepted solution]

I have received an Email telling me that the problem is solved by returning the amount remaining in Escrow to the client, and providing courtesy credit to me, which is equal to the amount I would have earned for this project. I want to thank Upwork and Upwork Mediation Team. Nichola L and Will L, many thanks for your time and concern.

[wlyonsatl]

That's great, Esraa S.! 

Please let us know if this contract has had any effect on your Job Success Score.

[esraa-sam]

Hi Will,

No effect has appeared so far. I will let you know if something I don't wish to have happened.

[wlyonsatl]

Your Job Success Score is only updated every two weeks, so it might be a while before you see if there's been any effect.

[esraa-sam]

Yeah, I have to wait.

[lysis10]

Upwork will allow you to start the arbitration process for sums less than $300. Maybe they judge based on client behavior, but I paid $291 on a $250 escrow and the client bailed so I got the full amount. The mediator didn't fight it other than offering me $50 (they always do though so probs scripted) and I said "no, arbitration then." She said "pay up," so I did. But then the client never responded so I got it all back. Maybe she had a feeling this would happen, but I doubt they are good at sensing client behavior, but idk. The client was slow to respond the whole time.

eta: It's entirely possible the mediator thought I would puss out too but that's a terrible take on my personality. lol

eta2: oh, I did butt heads in another dispute where we both threatened arbitration on a similar amount (I think $250 again) and the mediator pushed back a lot more. Maybe he realized we'd both do it but he  did try harder to stop it and accomplished his goals because he gave me what I wanted with a courtesy credit and probs gave the client what he wanted. So I suppose it just depends. In this case, Upwork was the clear winner because the courtesy credit covered their commission, so really what they gave me was given back to them. It was a clever deal on their end.

[wlyonsatl]

Thanks for giving us your real world experience with a mediator and arbitration, Jennifer. There may be some gamesmanship on the part of Upwork mediators encouraging or discouraging arbitration, but the real lesson for new freelancers is that Upwork tries to both treat freelancers fairly while also minimizing its own costs of resolving disputes. 

Arbitration is not available on every fixed price project, regardless of value, just because the freelancer is willing to pay $291.