Solved: Hourly Protection Is a Scam

Ali N · ‎06-30-2022

To Whome It May Concern
My funds have been refunded back to the client. I have read the complete hourly protection terms, it says Upwork covers freelancers with it's hourly protection. Where's that protection now? I need my funds back. I just got a ticket which is telling me that I have improperly logged the hours while me and my cleints have already agreed on logging fixed amount of hours and he just confirmed again. Why would you refund he niether disputed nor asked me to give him refund then what is the issue?

We had agree to fixed 39 hours of work and the client is still supporting this agreement but what's the issue with Upwork.

Where I'll get my funds back?
Thanks

Annie Jane B · ‎07-02-2022

Hi All,

A few replies have been removed from this thread as they were in violation of the Community Guidelines. Please, note that posts that come without constructive feedback or are disparaging of other members won't be allowed. Forums like the Community are at their best when participants treat each other with respect and courtesy.

We do appreciate your participation, so please be considerate of this in your future replies.

To address your questions regarding Hourly Protection, please note that we have also reached out to your client in regards to their payment not going through. When your client's payment doesn't go through, Upwork reviews the work diary per our Terms of Service. After your work diary is reviewed Upwork steps in and pays you for the time logged that meets Upwork Hourly Protection Criteria.

While there is no means of knowing ahead of time whether or not a client's payment will be successful, ultimately that should not be a concern for you as a freelancer as long as you are protecting yourself. By reviewing the Hourly Protection for Freelancers guidelines, you can ensure that you are paid appropriately even when a client's payment fails. Time logged appropriately via the Work Diary will qualify for payment protection from Upwork.

This process is part of the Upwork Terms of Service (6. PAYMENT PROTECTION, 6.1 FOR FREELANCERS ) that all freelancers agree to when signing up on the platform. Reversals issued during this process are in line with our Terms of Service.

If the client agrees with you and wants to pay you, they can do so by issuing a bonus payment instead. Again, they are fully aware that their payment did not go through so it should not be a problem releasing a bonus payment if they agree on your logged hours.

~ AJ

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Jeanne H · ‎06-30-2022

First, it is not a scam. There are many scams here, but let's not confuse the issue.

Second, there are specific rules for hourly tracking. If Upwork tells you that you did not log the hours properly, you need to have data to prove them wrong. If you can't, you won't receive any money.

Third, if you didn't follow Upwork's rules, they have options specific to the situation.

I'll notify the moderator, and perhaps there is assistance I am unaware of, but I do not think you will have the money returned.

Martina P · ‎06-30-2022

Jeanne H wrote:
First, it is not a scam. There are many scams here, but let's not confuse the issue.

Second, there are specific rules for hourly tracking. If Upwork tells you that you did not log the hours properly, you need to have data to prove them wrong. If you can't, you won't receive any money.

Third, if you didn't follow Upwork's rules, they have options specific to the situation.

I'll notify the moderator, and perhaps there is assistance I am unaware of, but I do not think you will have the money returned.

It sounds like the same old crypto scam.

Peter G · ‎06-30-2022

I'd say clients hiring freelancers and then not paying them certainly is a type of scam. They know and exploit the fact that neither Upwork or freelancers can force them to pay.

Jeanne H · ‎06-30-2022

I was referring to the statement that hourly protection is a scam, which it is not. The job may be a scam, but that is a different subject.

Peter G · ‎06-30-2022

Oh. Sorry.

Jeanne H · ‎07-01-2022

No worries, friend. 🙂

Martina P · ‎06-30-2022

If the client is telling you that he paid upwork, he is not telling the truth. Upwork doesn't just keep money that doesn't belong to them.

Preston H · ‎06-30-2022

re: "Hourly Protection Is a Scam"

It is not a scam.

I have personally received money from Upwork through Upwork Hourly Protection.

It works exactly as Upwork describes it.

re: "it says Upwork covers freelancers with it's hourly protection."

Yes, that is correct.

re: "Where's that protection now?"

You were not using the Upwork contract model correctly, and you did not follow the rules for Upwork Hourly Protection.

re: "I just got a ticket which is telling me that I have improperly logged the hours"

Yes, that was correct information.

You improperly logged the hours.

re: "while me and my cleints have already agreed on logging fixed amount of hours and he just confirmed again."

That is not hour hourly contracts work.

There is no such thing as a "fixed amount of hours."

Also: A client and a freelancer "agreeing" to something has nothing to do with Upwork Hourly Protection.

Upwork Hourly Protection is based on using the desktop-based time-tracker application.

re: "Why would you refund he niether disputed nor asked me to give him refund then what is the issue?"

Because the client's credit card was not able to be charged. This is not Upwork's fault. This is the client's fault.

re: "We had agree to fixed 39 hours of work"

That is not how hourly contracts work.

re: "and the client is still supporting this agreement but what's the issue with Upwork."

Did you log the time manually?

Upwork Payment Protection is for work logged using the desktop-based time-tracker applcation. It does not apply to manually-logged hours.

Ali:
I want you to feel that you have been treated fairly.

I want you to achieve your goals here on Upwork.

If you have ANY questions about this situation, please feel free to ask your questions right here in this thread. I don't want you to feel like anybody is treating you unfairly or "beating up" on you. We may not understand your situation fully. Please explain further if there is something we don't understand and thus may have judged your situation incorrectly.

Peter G · ‎06-30-2022

You're only protected if you used the time tracker 100% correctly. Sounds like you didn't. "Refund" really means that Upwork couldn't successfully charge the client's card. You were scammed and the client is lying to you. You won't get your money and there is nothing you can do about it.

Martina P · ‎06-30-2022

I'm a little slow today, but now things become clearer. You and the client agreed that you would input 39 manual hours. You thought manual hours are always protected, which is wrong, they are not).

The client never paid upwork.

I hope you didn't buy crypto for this client. This is a common scam that comes up almost daily in the forum, one variant of it works exactly as you describe what happened.

Radia L · ‎06-30-2022

Ali N wrote:

Why would you refund he niether disputed nor asked me to give him refund then what is the issue?

Because there was a chargeback. The bank took the money back. In these cases, Upwork will pay you out from their own pocket IF you're eligible for the protection.

David S · ‎06-30-2022

Hi Ali, I just went through your profile and I see you're not new to Upwork nor are you a new freelancer. I'm pretty sure you know the difference between manual tracking and app tracking. App (Desktop) tracking with activities has the hourly protection.

So may I ask you, did you track the hours with Desktop App? How long have you been working with this client? Does the client have work history on the platform or are you their first hire? Does the job entail you buying crypto for the client and logging the corresponding hours? You made mention of agreeing to log fixed hours, I'm curious about how you both arrived at fixed 39 hours. How many hours did you track each day?

If you can provide more info, it will be valuable info to assist you further. Hourly protection isn't a scam, I received hourly protection a few weeks back because I tracked the hours properly.

Christine A · ‎07-01-2022

Ali N wrote:

To Whome It May Concern
We had agree to fixed 39 hours of work and the client is still supporting this agreement but what's the issue with Upwork.

The issue is that your client didn't pay - it's not Upwork's issue. You think that they refunded your money for no reason, or that they're keeping your money, or... what, exactly? If your client wants to work with you, then tell him to sort out the problem. He's the one that you need to talk to.

Hourly payment protection means that Upwork will pay you out of their own pocket IF you strictly follow their rules. It doesn't matter if your client agreed to let you charge manual hours - Upwork didn't agree that THEY would pay you for your manual hours.

Jake B · ‎07-01-2022

I recently got scammed by Upwork's Hourly Protection. I am top rated plus. My client has me on an hourly contract. I used the Upwork time tracker app as I always do for every hourly contract.

Somehow they were unable to charge the client and then Upwork issued a "refund" to the client. I asked the client if they requested the refund and the client said no.

Upwork can choose to not honor your hourly protection based on any reason they decide. In my case, they called it "low activity. Well, that is just not true. Who is Upwork to decide whether or not I am doing the job according to the client's request.

In my case, I was researching competitor products and doing target market research including reading Amazon product reviews from competitors, as per the client's request.

Upwork determined that my work was "low activity" so they did not honor the hourly protection for that contract.

It is extremely unfair to me. Now my client wants to pay the fee to move off Upwork because we both agree that Upwork messed up and did not communicate the problem to either one of us until a lot of misunderstanding happened. My client wants to pay me for those missing hours because I have been working with him for over a year now.

Upwork hourly protection is subjective which makes it easy for Upwork to scam you out of your money. That is the truth.

Radia L · ‎07-01-2022

If the client is telling the truth, I think you can ask for their help. Or ask for some more proof or something, so you can give it to Upwork. If not...

Upwork hourly protection is subjective which makes it easy for Upwork to...

I agree but I also believe it's needed. Can't create the perfect rules that can fit in all situations at all times. There's a number of ambiguous articles in the protection that can be used to not pay a naive freelancer on a "blatant scam job" (where the freelancer actually fullfilled all requirements for the protection). This is needed or they'll go bankrupt quickly.

Aside from that, there was a case a few months back, a refund on a "normal job". Upwork said the freelancer is ineligible for the protection, but changed their mind after a few weeks of support chat and forum post. The thread is gone now. You may want to keep trying. ✌️

Jake B · ‎07-01-2022

Thank you, so far Upwork has been unresponsive since Wednesday regarding my inquiries. I always receive terrible customer service from Upwork though.

Another issue I noticed is when I have to review videos and the edits/graphics of videos based on the script I write, the Upwork time tracker stops tracking time. Their system is severely flawed as freelancing is not a one-size-fits-all gig when it comes to time tracking. It has become so frustrating that I do not even apply to new projects on Upwork anymore.

I only accept invitations to interview now. Upwork does not seem to ever ask a freelancer or a client for more details before they make these executive decisions that impact people's lives while potentially wasting their time.

Peter G · ‎07-01-2022

Yes, using the time tracker just isn't a viable option for many of us. I wish they would come up with another was to protect freelancers who can't use it.

Christine A · ‎07-01-2022

Jake B wrote:
I recently got scammed by Upwork's Hourly Protection. I am top rated plus. My client has me on an hourly contract. I used the Upwork time tracker app as I always do for every hourly contract.

Somehow they were unable to charge the client and then Upwork issued a "refund" to the client. I asked the client if they requested the refund and the client said no.

Then your client lied to you. His payment method failed, and Upwork would have tried repeatedly to charge him and notified him that there's a problem. He needs to sort it out.

Jake B wrote:
It is extremely unfair to me. Now my client wants to pay the fee to move off Upwork because we both agree that Upwork messed up and did not communicate the problem to either one of us until a lot of misunderstanding happened. My client wants to pay me for those missing hours because I have been working with him for over a year now.

So again, Upwork definitely did try to notify your client - if you don't get paid, then they don't get paid, so they're just as interested in charging your client as you are. If your client really wants to pay you, then there's nothing stopping him. If this is an honest mistake, it should be easy for him to sort it out (if he's not deliberately trying to scam you, then perhaps he's over his credit card limit or his credit card has expired). It would be ridiculous to pay the opt-out fee to move you off of Upwork - which would cost him thousands of dollars - rather than simply settling his bill here. If his credit card isn't working, then you'll have no luck getting him to pay you off of Upwork either. And if he doesn't pay his current bill, his account will be suspended.

Jake B wrote:
Upwork hourly protection is subjective which makes it easy for Upwork to scam you out of your money. That is the truth.

Upwork has no interest in scamming you out of your money, but yes, the payment protection was always subject to very specific terms and conditions, which you could have easily looked up and adhered to.

Christine A · ‎07-02-2022

Let me speak in clearer language, then. Here's why you didn't get paid: 1) Your client's payment method failed when Upwork tried to charge them. 2) You failed to log your time properly, so Upwork didn't pay you either.

Martina P · ‎07-02-2022

The opt-out fee would be $49670 in your case, since it's based on the freelancer's hourly rate. Kudos to you for getting a client to pay that!

Will L · ‎07-01-2022

Jake,

I hate to hear stories like yours, but I have worked more than 6,700 hours on Upwork projects and have found that if I follow Upwork's hourly payment protection rules Upwork has protected me from clients with payment issues.

That isn't to say the payment protection system has no room for improvement, but it is very reliable for the most part.

Jake B · ‎07-01-2022

I only have 1,000 hours but I have not run into this issue until now. I am very disappointed by my experience. Nobody at Upwork will talk to me about it, at least they have not responded since Wednesday.

Now they are not releasing my funds from a different client's hourly contract today either. This is two weeks in a row where Upwork is not releasing my funds early even though I am top rated plus.

I am starting to notice a pattern. I am losing my confidence in Upwork completely at this point.

I am happy you have had a good experience though. I wish I could share your confidence in the platform.

Annie Jane B · ‎07-02-2022