How do I know if I’m hired?

[#1]

I’ve had an UpWork account for a while, but I’ve not been hired for anything yet.

I got my first “maybe hired” a day or two ago, but I’m afraid. The client had me sign a nondisclosure, but it’s a nondisclosure from a different site than the one they want me to write for.

The client has only had an account for a month. I’m just afraid that it’s a scam or not real.. like really afraid that something bad will happen.

It doesn’t say I have an interview or anything. I’m so afraid. I don’t know what to do. The one says “active proposals.” Can I still back out and withdraw my application?

I’m so scared. I wanted a job so badly, but I signed this agreement and I don’t know what to do. If I pull back my application, am I free or will they leave me bad feedback?

I read about a person who got declined for five jobs in a row and got banned from UpWork. I don’t want to get banned. Please tell me what to do.

[#2]

You are not hired yet. You will get a job offer and you need to accept the job offer first to get hired so don't worry. Please ask for the details job description before accepting the job offer (you will get the offer if the client want to hire you). 

[#3]

Thank you so much.. they’ve sent me my first ‘assignment’ via email and I think I’m just going to not answer it. There’s just been so many red flags on this one. 😞 I’ll try for a different job, I think—one that is posted by a client with a lot of reviews.

Thank you for answering me.. my mind is significantly more at ease. I did email the nondisclosure to the website it was actually from and asked if they were affiliated with the client, but they didn’t answer. Thank you for your help.

[#4]

Hey.

Absolutely no need to be scared of nothing.

At your own time, have another read of the ToS.

There's something in there which says, a client cannot ask freelancer to sign anything that goes against the terms of service of Upwork.

In other words, if client after coming into contact with freelancer on Upwork, asks freelancer to sign anything that goes against the grain of how Upwork works, that agreement is in effect, null and void.

So, for instance, Upwork says that for a client to hire a freelancer, client must send an offer (fixed price or hourly) through Upwork, and freelancer must accept it, on Upwork, before freelancer can begin working.

If client then sends another contract or NDA or whatever directly through email to you, wherein he says you should do x and x for me, when an Upwork offer is not in place, that agreement is garbage. Throw it in the bin.

Btw, you have great writing. Do you knit? I was pleasantly shocked to find someone who consistently spelt Upwork as UpWork. 

[#5]

Thank you! I will certainly read it again. I am relieved by your post!

And thank you for the kind compliment as well. I have tried to knit, but I’m afraid I never quite grasped it (a pun, but also the truth).

In light of other comments, I apologize for using UpWork instead of Upwork and meant no disrespect. Thank you all so kindly for helping me. Words can’t express how much I appreciate it.

Edit: hopefully I don’t get in trouble for using the wrong casing of Upwork. 😞

[#6]

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Abinadab A wrote:

In other words, if client after coming into contact with freelancer on Upwork, asks freelancer to sign anything that goes against the grain of how Upwork works, that agreement is in effect, null and void.

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This is dangerously wrong.

The legally binding nature of an agreement is not invalidated by it not being conform with Upwork's terms of service.

Obviously nothing is going to happen, any such agreements are worth the client's financial ability to enforce them, but that does not mean it's invalid or null and void.

One has very little to do with the other.

[#7]

You seem to be taking a more sweeping interpretation to my statement than what the context in which it was originally intended.

But, for avoidance of doubt, have a look at where the ToS says it.

Beyond that screeenshot, I have nothing more to say.

[#8]

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Abinadab A wrote:

You seem to be taking a more sweeping interpretation to my statement than what the context in which it was originally intended.

But, for avoidance of doubt, have a look at where the ToS says it.

Beyond that screeenshot, I have nothing more to say.

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Since when was signing a non-disclosure agreement a ToS violation?

[#9]

As you may note from the ToS, users are free to sign NDAs.

But what if someone asks you to sign an NDA that says we'll pay you outside Upwork and, by virtue of this NDA, you should tell no one!, even Upwork, else we'll take you to court!

I think you get the drift...

[#10]

OK, But I guess what i'm not getting here is, nothing like that has been said has it? I may have missed an importnant point, but from what i read the OP signed an NDA and is now very worried (though i'm not really sure why (other than having signed an NDA that appears to be headed from another company))

[#11]

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Jonathan H wrote:

from what i read the OP signed an NDA and is now very worried (though i'm not really sure why

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I think she was worried because she read somewhere that someone was suspended after not being hired after 5 interviews or some such.

Upwork used to suspend freelancers if they sent lots of proposals and were rarely or never hired. They don't do that anymore.

[#12]

Oh, OK. 

So, there is no reason whatsoever to think that the client has asked the OP to sign anything that violates ToS!

Additionally, as you have rightfully pointed out, Upwork have no authority to make a contract between you and a third party void.

[#13]

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Abinadab A wrote:

As you may note from the ToS, users are free to sign NDAs.

But what if someone asks you to sign an NDA that says we'll pay you outside Upwork and, by virtue of this NDA, you should tell no one!, even Upwork, else we'll take you to court!

I think you get the drift...

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Where did you get the idea that it says anything of the sort?

And again, even if it said that, it would not render the signed agreement null and void. Upwork's terms of service have no effect on any other agreements.

[#14]

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Abinadab A wrote:

As you may note from the ToS, users are free to sign NDAs.

But what if someone asks you to sign an NDA that says we'll pay you outside Upwork and, by virtue of this NDA, you should tell no one!, even Upwork, else we'll take you to court!

I think you get the drift...

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If someone asks you to sign an "NDA" that talks about payments then that is automatically no longer a valid NDA.  Non-disclosure agreements that are properly labeled as non-disclosure agreements do not cover in any way, shape or form payment, method of payment, work specifics, etc.  They are purely there to protect both parties from wrongful disclosure of confidential information.

And no, you signing a document that is in direct breach of the terms of service of the original contract (which is the one established through UpWork) would not put you in court, they don't have a leg to stand on.

[#15]

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Jonathan H wrote:

So are you saying that if a huge comany, lets say midland bank setup a client account and a FL is in talks with them about a project, but the project falls through, all contracts thereafter made between the FL and Midland bank are null and void?

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I never said so.

Again, read that part of the ToS. That, was my drift.

[#16]

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Bianca S wrote:
Thank you so much.. they’ve sent me my first ‘assignment’ via email and I think I’m just going to not answer it. There’s just been so many red flags on this one. 😞 I’ll try for a different job, I think—one that is posted by a client with a lot of reviews.

Thank you for answering me.. my mind is significantly more at ease. I did email the nondisclosure to the website it was actually from and asked if they were affiliated with the client, but they didn’t answer. Thank you for your help.

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I would not ignore them. Why not just message them through Upwork and say something along the lines of....

"Hi, thanks for the assignment you sent me via email on x/x/2019 I am really looking forward to getting started on your project. Once the Upwork contract has been sent and agreed upon I will be happy to get started on your project."

Although I have not had to sign an NDA myself, I would not have a problem doing so and am aware it is a relatively normal thing within some big corporations. I'm not sure I understand what you are so worried about, was there something specific in the NDA that is going against terms?

[#17]

Hello!

My fear stems from the fact that the NDA is not from their company. It appears to possibly be one they found online (the other company still hasn’t responded to my email to ask if they’re a subsidiary company or theirs or something along those lines).

Additionally, the name of the person facilitating the job’s name is allegedly a very specific/unusual name. I wanted to know if that person was real.. apparently he’s a Marvel character. I tried every combination of company + name online just to see if there’s any mention of him anywhere (LinkedIn, google articles, etc) and found nothing aside from the Marvel character (not the actor—the actual character).

It isn’t signing the disclosure itself that’s bothering me; it’s the fact that it doesn’t have their “company’s” name on it. In regards to asking here, I was afraid because they wrote this:

“ As per the Non-Disclosure Agreement, you will not discuss or disclose any details about this project to any third party, websites or persons (including Upwork).“

I took it to mean that I am not able to speak about anything regarding the project. I feel like I’ve signed something for a company I’ve never heard of and know nothing about—and the person I’ve been talking to has never even mentioned that company name.

Worth noting—they don’t use a @theirdomain email address, either. For what it’s worth—and to reiterate—the agreement itself isn’t what’s bothering me. It’s that it didn’t come from them, and it seems like the person is using a fake name.. The job was for writing, and I was asked to make an account on their site so I can post content, so I did—but I’ve had anxiety about this, so I wanted to delete it/remove my information from their site. There’s no way to delete a profile. I submitted a support ticket to the site to ask that they delete it. It just feels like there’s so many red flags here.

I’m sorry if I sound unreasonable. I was excited for the first couple jobs I applied for, and I was excited for this one too—there’s just been a lot of weird stuff.

If the actual NDA company would write me back and let me know if it’s real or not, that would be really beneficial.

Side notes: the articles would be written on their website. Part of the NDA states that I am not allowed to link to these articles anywhere online. However, the person told me via email that I would need to post links to the articles everywhere (all social media, Reddit, etc). It also struck me as weird—but not as weird as the NDA from a different company and the seemingly fake name.

[#18]

Hi Bianca,

I dont know if you have tried discussing these issues with the client, but if you have concerns i would at least try to talk to them and keep communication through Upwork where possible to ensure everything is recorded. 

I'm not sure if this project is 'dodgy' or not, i dont have enough experience with things like NDA's to give reliable advice about them. If I was in the situation I would just ensure all contracts are funded and active before doing anything. 

Having said that, gut instinct is often worth paying attention to, and if you are this concerned then maybe letting this one go is a good idea.

Either way, I hope it all works out ok for you 🙂 

[#19]

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Jonathan H wrote:

Hi Bianca,

I dont know if you have tried discussing these issues with the client, but if you have concerns i would at least try to talk to them and keep communication through Upwork where possible to ensure everything is recorded. 

I'm not sure if this project is 'dodgy' or not, i dont have enough experience with things like NDA's to give reliable advice about them. If I was in the situation I would just ensure all contracts are funded and active before doing anything. 

Having said that, gut instinct is often worth paying attention to, and if you are this concerned then maybe letting this one go is a good idea.

Either way, I hope it all works out ok for you 🙂 

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Discuss what with the client?

Ask them for instance, why their name is, for all intents and purposes, fake?

Why they are asking a freelancer to sign something that implies they can't talk to a therapist, report a crime or other abuse they might suffer at the hands of such client?

Why every other thing about them looks dodgy?

The only thing worth considering is your advice in red.

Don't waste one second more than necessary with a client that is unlegit.

[#20]

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Abinadab A wrote:

Discuss what with the client?

Ask them for instance, why their name is, for all intents and purposes, fake?

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Well, Personally I would talk to the client about the concerns i have, such as no formal offer has been made through Upwork yet, Why is the NDA headed with a different company details.... Anything that you feel is of concern is a good start.

If they are dodgy they will likely vanish when you start questioning them, and if they dont you are still free to make a decision but perhaps with a little more knowledge.

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Abinadab A wrote:

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Why they are asking a freelancer to sign something that implies they can't talk to a therapist, report a crime or other abuse they might suffer at the hands of such client?

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Are you reading the same thread??? Unless you have seen something different it implies no such thing. It simply says not to talk about the project, which, correct me if i'm wrong, is the whole point of an NDA is it not?

[#21]

If they are sending you work assignments before having a contract in place then they are scamming you. They cannot leave you feedback without a contract. Run don't walk, and report them for asking for free work. 

And to the other poster, it's Upwork not UpWork. Look at the logo. The "w" is lower case. Also look at any of the text where Upwork refers to itself. Always a lower case "w".  See the instances below. 

[#22]

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Amanda L wrote:

If they are sending you work assignments before having a contract in place then they are scamming you. They cannot leave you feedback without a contract. Run don't walk, and report them for asking for free work. 

And to the other poster, it's Upwork not UpWork. Look at the logo. The "w" is lower case. Also look at any of the text where Upwork refers to itself. Always a lower case "w".  See the instances below. 

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Thanks for the clarification, Amanda.

Even though I must admit that UpWork looks pretty chic, though wrong.

And, I seem to have a faint recollection of Upwork warning all and sundry to not say UpWork somewhere in the trademark part of the ToS, though memory failed to serve at the time of my earlier posting!

[#23]

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Abinadab A wrote:

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Amanda L wrote:

If they are sending you work assignments before having a contract in place then they are scamming you. They cannot leave you feedback without a contract. Run don't walk, and report them for asking for free work. 

And to the other poster, it's Upwork not UpWork. Look at the logo. The "w" is lower case. Also look at any of the text where Upwork refers to itself. Always a lower case "w".  See the instances below. 

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Thanks for the clarification, Amanda.

Even though I must admit that UpWork looks pretty chic, though wrong.

And, I seem to have a faint recollection of Upwork warning all and sundry to not say UpWork somewhere in the trademark part of the ToS, though memory failed to serve at the time of my earlier posting!

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If it's any consolation, I agree. I thought it was UpWork for a while too. I'm a little disappointed, but not my company, not my choice. 

[#24]

Bianca, if you have not gotten an offer for a job from this potential client, and if you don't have a contract, I don't think you have anything to worry about. You certainly should not do any work for this client without a contract. I signed an NDA once but I had a contract before doing so. From what you say, this client sounds fishy but wait and see. If you don't get a contract, they probably are fishy so you should stay away.