I Need Advice on New Contract Problem

jsutherland · ‎05-09-2015

I was hired on an hourly job.

From my conversations with the client BEFORE being hired I estimated 2-3 hours of work.

The client hired me and allowed for 1 hour of work.

This is now turning into a nightmare. What happens if I close the contract due to work / hours not being as described?

Is my Job Success of 100% going to take a hit over this?

Will my rating of 4.93 take a hit?

If I do get hit with penalities how bad do you estimate it will be?

Where did I go wrong and how could I have avoided this?

I now have just a sick feeling about this job.

francine10 · ‎05-09-2015

Why are you thinking of closing the contract? Are you of the opinion that the client won't increase the hours? Is the client new to Upwork?

In the past, I've just notified the client that more time must be added unless they want me to finish next week.

Let me know if you think I've missed the point of your posting...

Good luck!

Diligence is the mother of good luck...Benj. Franklin

patrinina · ‎05-09-2015

Closing a contract from the freelancer side ONCE, will not ruin your perforance stats.

If money hasn't been exchanged, the client can't leave feedback, so your score doesn't drop in any way.

It's just that if this becomes a pattern in your work history, it will get you some negative attention from the Upwork algorithm.

You could also try to talk with your client about this misunderstanding. Remind him with quotes if necessary about your prior agreements. If all else fails, only then should you close the contract yourself.

Good luck!

elastella · ‎05-09-2015

@Patricia Elena Nin P wrote:
Closing a contract from the freelancer side ONCE, will not ruin your perforance stats.
If money hasn't been exchanged, the client can't leave feedback, so your score doesn't drop in any way.

Yes, unfortunately it can have a negative impact on your performance stats. Even when no money has been exchanged a client can still leave private feedback. I closed one contract, the client left negative private feedback and my JS score dropped from 100% to 89%. And that is not guess work from my side but has been confirmed by CS.

It affected my score massively as I had only been using oDesk/Upwork for ca. 2.5 months and at that time had only completed 9 other jobs. So it was one negative private feedback against 9 positive ones.. Funnily enough me "clients who would recommend you" stats is still at 100%. But I am sure it will drop the next time they update it.

iftikhar-ishaq · ‎05-09-2015

Ela

Sorry to hear about but this is completly ruin someones career what if a freelancer is at 70% and trying to improve his/her JS and it happens somthing like this sure he will get suspended.

It shouldn't have to effect JS like this.

elastella · ‎05-09-2015

Iftikhar,

Thanks. Yes, I agree.

The thing is, the more jobs you have completed successfully the less it will hurt you/a freelancer.

But it is of course demoralising when it happens early on in your Upwork career as it quite a big drop.

And the feedback was not justified. Unfortunately that doesn't matter.

natacharodriguez · ‎05-09-2015

@Patricia Elena Nin P wrote:
Closing a contract from the freelancer side ONCE, will not ruin your perforance stats.
If money hasn't been exchanged, the client can't leave feedback, so your score doesn't drop in any way.
It's just that if this becomes a pattern in your work history, it will get you some negative attention from the Upwork algorithm.

We consider all your Upwork jobs - including whether or not work was performed. Jobs ending without receiving payment, or with a full refund, may be excluded from your profile history. But they are still an important factor in calculating your Job Success Score. The goal is to capture a breadth of information not necessarily reflected in your star-rating or profile.

Upwork Customer Support

suznee · ‎05-09-2015

@Natasha R wrote:
@Patricia Elena Nin P wrote:
Closing a contract from the freelancer side ONCE, will not ruin your perforance stats.
If money hasn't been exchanged, the client can't leave feedback, so your score doesn't drop in any way.
It's just that if this becomes a pattern in your work history, it will get you some negative attention from the Upwork algorithm.

We consider all your Upwork jobs - including whether or not work was performed. Jobs ending without receiving payment, or with a full refund, may be excluded from your profile history. But they are still an important factor in calculating your Job Success Score. The goal is to capture a breadth of information not necessarily reflected in your star-rating or profile.

Upwork Customer Support

Garnor wrote out a big long post on how it may or may not and other factors

If a freelancer closes a contract, it does not directly impact your Job Success score. The absence of client feedback might, just like in the case when Customer Support closes the contract.

https://community.upwork.com/t5/Freelancers/How-to-get-a-Dormant-Contract-closed-Unresponsive-Client...

Garnor Wrote:

Case 1:

One, two or even three jobs that end without Feedback being left aren't going to negatively impact your reputation enough that your account will be flagged. Unless, they comprise a majority of the jobs in your work history and other areas of your activity show concern, for example other policy violations. Again, we're looking at your work history as a whole and gauging how often these jobs come up (no Feedback, no starts) in comparison with the rest of your projects

Case 3:

Similar to Case #1 above, a cancellation or two will not negatively impact your reputation/account, unless that comprises the majority of your Work History. We realize there will be instances where it makes sense to cancel a job and we're accounting for this in our review of freelancer performance.

https://community.upwork.com/t5/Freelancers/How-Client-s-Lack-of-Feedback-Might-Affect-Freelancers/m...

elastella · ‎05-09-2015

@Suzanne N wrote:
@Natasha R wrote:
@Patricia Elena Nin P wrote:
Closing a contract from the freelancer side ONCE, will not ruin your perforance stats.
If money hasn't been exchanged, the client can't leave feedback, so your score doesn't drop in any way.
It's just that if this becomes a pattern in your work history, it will get you some negative attention from the Upwork algorithm.

We consider all your Upwork jobs - including whether or not work was performed. Jobs ending without receiving payment, or with a full refund, may be excluded from your profile history. But they are still an important factor in calculating your Job Success Score. The goal is to capture a breadth of information not necessarily reflected in your star-rating or profile.

Upwork Customer Support
Garnor wrote out a big long post on how it may or may not and other factors

If a freelancer closes a contract, it does not directly impact your Job Success score. The absence of client feedback might, just like in the case when Customer Support closes the contract.
https://community.upwork.com/t5/Freelancers/How-to-get-a-Dormant-Contract-closed-Unresponsive-Client...

Garnor Wrote:

Case 1:
One, two or even three jobs that end without Feedback being left aren't going to negatively impact your reputation enough that your account will be flagged. Unless, they comprise a majority of the jobs in your work history and other areas of your activity show concern, for example other policy violations. Again, we're looking at your work history as a whole and gauging how often these jobs come up (no Feedback, no starts) in comparison with the rest of your projects

Case 3:
Similar to Case #1 above, a cancellation or two will not negatively impact your reputation/account, unless that comprises the majority of your Work History. We realize there will be instances where it makes sense to cancel a job and we're accounting for this in our review of freelancer performance.

https://community.upwork.com/t5/Freelancers/How-Client-s-Lack-of-Feedback-Might-Affect-Freelancers/m...

You need to differentiate between private and public feedback. Because not leaving public feedback may not affect you - but the private feedback left by clients will if it's not great.

suznee · ‎05-09-2015

I still stand by it will not make a big difference if she has not closed any contracts previously. I closed two jobs, have 80% on Clients who would recommend you but I still have a 100% JS and 5 stars. I have closed two contracts in 2.5 years. one was a job which never started and the second was one I felt was unethical.

I don't believe it will have a huge impact if it is not a repeated factor.

elastella · ‎05-09-2015

@Suzanne N wrote:
I still stand by it will not make a big difference if she has not closed any contracts previously. I closed two jobs, have 80% on Clients who would recommend you but I still have a 100% JS and 5 stars. I have closed two contracts in 2.5 years. one was a job which never started and the second was one I felt was unethical.

I don't believe it will have a huge impact if it is not a repeated factor.

Suzanne,

Closing the contract that never started didn't harm you because you have been on here for quite a while. With many other contracts completed successfully to even out this one unfortunate case. I assume it will not hurt Jean that much either.

But not everybody is you. Other people read this as well, people who haven't worked here for several years. In fact, people like me. I closed one contract with no money exchanged - and that client left negative private feedback - and my JS score dropped by 11%.

So please, it didn't happen to you (good for you) but these things have happened and do happen to other people all the time.

I agree that Jean will probably not suffer that much should she decide to close that one dodgy contract. And maybe you are only referring to her case. But you make it sound like it is a universal truth that doing so will not affect negatively anyone who goes down that road. And that is what I object to. Because it does.

Ela

suznee · ‎05-09-2015

I am not sure why you are reading more into what I posted, but I posted on what happened to me as well as what my stats were, I did not say it would not affect everyone, I also stated if it was done more then once or twice it would affect your score. The only thing I posted was "my experience" and if you had an issue I am sorry, but I can only reflect on my experience and knowing Jean has not closed other contracts. If you don't like what I say ignore it. But read what I wrote before you go off at me.

elastella · ‎05-09-2015

@Suzanne N wrote:
If you don't like what I say ignore it. But read what I wrote before you go off at me.

I read every single word you wrote. And responded accordingly. Maybe just take your own advice?

skrm_seoservices · ‎05-09-2015

Why Ending a contract without any payment is counted as in-efficiency of Freelancer. A contract is started and ended without any payment transfers is always due to mis-understanding from both ends then why only freelancers are affected due to this.

muhmasood · ‎05-09-2015

The rating of your profile goes up and down with the amount of money and for sure your JS rate will go down on the basis that you are going to close the job not your client . 😉

"One thing I know, that I know nothing. This is the source of my wisdom"

iftikhar-ishaq · ‎05-09-2015

Jeans,

You should have to talk to your client that we have discused about 2 to 3 hours may be he will pay you the rest as bonus otherwise you should have to do this job just for one hour.

If you end the contract your public rating is not going to effect but your JS may effect beacuse the robot will go against you so its better to finish that job succesfully and just get paid for an hours.

prestonhunter · ‎05-09-2015

Are you worried that your client only allotted a certain amount of hours, and the work will take more hours than that?

I doubt you need to be worried about anything. You provide quality work, and what most clients want is NOT to spend a specific amount of money, but to get the job done in a way that they believe they are receiving a good VALUE.

"Value" may mean paying just a little money for something little, or paying a lot of money for significant, impressive work.

If you do 1 hour's worth of valuable work, and the client sees what you did with that hour and realizes that more hours will benefit him, then the client will want to increase your hours so that you can continue to provide good value to him.

If you bump into the number of hours limit, simply send your client what you have done so far and ask if he would like to increase the number of hours for you to do more this week, or wait until next week so you can do more work then.

jsutherland · ‎05-09-2015

Thanks Preston. I fully discussed with the client the work to be done and the amount of time I estimated it would take. He did dodge a bit and didn't seem to want me to know exactly how much writing he wanted done. Then he hired me without firming up what it was going to take to get his project done. He wants his entire LinkedIn profile setup and made professional. I constantly told him it would take 2-3 hours and we were still discussing it when he hired me and gave me 1 hour. The problem is I didn't find out about the 1 hour until I accepted what I thought was a 2-3 hour project. I guess I should never have accepted it until things were finalized through messages, but if I don't decline it then I get docked for taking too long to accept it.

prestonhunter · ‎05-09-2015

It sounds like the client is a bit dodgy with regards to his willingness to actually pay you for the number of hours you work. I don't know why he didn't just set this up as a straight-up fixed-rate contract, because that's what he is treating this like.

It sounds like you will need to decide if you want to simply do one hour of work and submit what you accomplish in that time and tell him that you'll be happy to continue the project when more hours are available, and risk irritating him,

or...

take 2 to 3 hours to finish up the project, while only recording one hour of work, and then be done with it.

The Upwork user interface controls certainly allow you both options.

Officially Upwork's policy is "an hour of pay for an hour of work."

But I'm sure most of us have done work for clients on hourly contracts without logging the time.

If a client emails me a question and I answer it without logging the time, I'm doing work without logging time. And most of us have done more than that.

suznee · ‎05-09-2015

Jean,

I would do what you think you should do, but Preston gave you good advise.

If you feel you acceptted something that you can't do, then cancel the job. I cancelled one awhile back as they left out on a product testing that I wouldn't be testing the product, only writing a review.

I felt it was dishonest, I wrote and email back and stated I am sorry I can't accept the job as I don't feel I can write an honest review of a product I had not tested, and ended the job. It did not affect my JS as that was several months back and I still have 100% JS and 5 stars.

It did affect I am sure my score on who you recommend or would you rehire whatever it is, as I think they still can fill out private feedback, but it really did not do anything to my JS. It may has though as I Had 98% for awhile and never figured out what that was from, and don't think it was that job since that job was in the last few months.

You can send a note and tell him that we discussed it would take longer but you have only allotted for 1 hour, it really needs either to be increased or may I put manual time in. Ask him outfront so you have it in your emails here on upwork. But if you can't do it I doubt one job is going to damage you.

It has been posted by the mods it is repeated ones or refunds that affect your job score.

jsutherland · ‎05-09-2015

Thanks to both Preston and Suzanne. You helped me a lot in my decision.

natacharodriguez · ‎05-09-2015

Here you did say it affected your JS

https://community.upwork.com/t5/Freelancers/I-found-out-why-my-STATS-are-low-what-now/m-p/69458/high...

iaabraham · ‎05-09-2015

"The problem is I didn't find out about the 1 hour until I accepted what I thought was a 2-3 hour project."

@Jean, when the client sent you the job offer to accept, didn't it state the weekly time limit? I've been able to see the hours permitted on all the hourly contracts that I've worked on (before I accepted them). In fact, many times I've asked a client to increase the hours before I accept the job (they do so and send me the revised offer).

jsutherland · ‎05-09-2015

If it did, then I guess I didn't see that. I probably just assumed it was what we agree.d to. Next time I'll look more carefully. I've just never had this problem before in all the 7+8 years I've worked here. Probably I missed it due to being excited I got the job.