I feel defeated with Upwork and how this process works.

[601d72f2]

Greetings everyone. Im feeling a little defeated with this site due to the competitiveness but even more how we as freelancers are to connect with the clients. I do not understand the point of the connect points only to not be "connected" with the client. If I have questions about the task, there is no way to reach the client. This seems kind of impossible to have work through this site. Im feeling a little defeated...

[tjmisny]

Hi DB - I'm an Expert Vetted freelancer (top <1% of Upwork) with almost $400k in earnings.  And I am extremely discouraged.  Around 40% of my proposals are viewed these days and I'm spending money to boost every post.  It's extremely depressing because I know the reason why:

Since Upwork became a Casino, clients are too overwhelmed by the meaningless ranking of candidates.  They are too confused by the meaningless "Best Match" list and the meaningless "Boosted" list, and the badges that everyone seems to have now, all mixed in with the new influx of unskilled freelancers.  They don't want to pay the extra fees on the contract upon closing out the transaction.  They lose faith in the platform and leave.  

I am almost ready to give up!

[2bd7a40a]

Great points. I hire on Upwork. All these tags I pretty much ignore. What I will say to the original post is that I would be even more frustrated if candidates could contact me directly. Many ignore the description and ask questions already covered. Or ask questions with no real value to them. It is rough out there!

[tjmisny]

What is WAY more common is a client making an incredibly vague post and demanding that the applicants share a quote for the total price.... where it is impossible to bid beacuse of the lack of information.  

[1cac6772]

Upwork used to be a place where I had full time work and made decent money. Nowadays I lose money on Upwork by sending connects for job proposals that never even get opened. The new system has ruined the platform for the majority of freelancers in my opinion. Most good clients left a year or so ago becaue the platform has become devalued. And on the rare occasion there is a good job post, it's always got 50+ applicants which means anywhere from 300 - 1000 applicants. Good luck landing a job with that many applicants. Of course Upwork doesn't want to be honest with freelancers are report the actual number of applicants, because then not nearly as many people would continue to apply and spend those VIRTUAL TOKENS.

GOOD LUCK!!!

[tjmisny]

Dale, I'm aligned with your views on the platform, but what is your evidence that there are 300 - 1000 applicants for jobs?  It doesn't help your/our cause to exaggerate to that extent.  

[1cac6772]

Thomas

I've spoken about this in other posts. So I'll use the example of LinkedIn. Whenever I search for a job on LinkedIn,  almost every single job will have anywhere from 200 - 300 applicants for a 2 - 3 day old job. Now, if this job was 3 - 4 weeks old, that number would go even higher. Also keep in mind that I'm searching strictly for U.S. based jobs, so there are not applicants outside of the U.S. that should be applying. 

Now if we look at Upwork, we all know there has been a huge increase of freelancers sign up within the last few years. I think everyone would also agree that there has been a huge influx of bots/scammers with a decline in good jobs. A lot of good clients have left because of how hard it is to get matched up with a good freelancer in this new system. So nowadays I might see a good job every week or 2. The point I'm trying to make is that good jobs seem very scarce now on Upwork which means that the applicant numbers would be even higher than a LinkedIn job. Also note that I'm in one of the TOP 1 - 2 most in demand industries, so competition is extremely high. The thing that's different with Upwork job posts, is that anyone in any part of the world can apply for that job. They aren't restricted by geographical location. 

So if every job on LinkedIn in my industry consistently has 200 - 300 job applicants within 1 - 2 days of being posted. And there is 10 - 20+ pages of these jobs........then when it comes to Upwork, that would lead me to believe that the SAME industry I am in, allows applicants from all over the world, and is rare to find.........would at least have the same 200 - 300 applicants at MINIMUM. And those are probably conservative numbers.

Now it's anyones guess what the actual applicant numbers are. Only Upwork really knows. But to think that a job posting with 50+ applicants only has between 51 - 100 applicants is naive in my opinion in the most in demand industries. There is a reason that Upwork is not being honest about these numbers and that is because it would blow peoples minds to see the actual numbers. I guess everyone has their own "cutoff" number where they won't apply after a certain number of applicants. For me that number is around 20 - 25. Upwork seems to think that number is 50 for most people.

[tjmisny]

My recommendation would be to post a job as a client in your industry and see for yourself how many people apply.  Otherwise it's just speculation.  

[1cac6772]

I just gave you an example of a job platform in my industry that doesn't hide applicant numbers. Your theory is that the applicant numbers would be lower on a global platform like Upwork where people from every country can apply?

Also you're trying to compare your industry to my indsutry which is not relevant. Film/TV/Animation I would assume is one of the lesser in demand job categories. It's definitely less in demand that the industry I'm in. I would say that at least 60/70% of jobs in my industry always have 50 PLUS applicants. 

[the-right-writer]

Thomas is correct. It's not personal, but your opinion is not fact, it is speculation.

We know that some clients do receive hundreds of proposals, because there has been direct experience. We don't know if that translates to every client receiving 300–1000 proposals.

[1cac6772]

Jeanne

Please show me where I said that I KNOW FOR A FACT THAT EVERY SINGLE JOB POST IS RECEIVING 300 - 1000 PROPOSALS. No where did I say that. It's my opinion that's the case with the MOST IN DEMAND job postings that show 50+ and I also said it's anyones guess what the actual numbers are and that only Upwork knows. If you read the earlier post you would know that. 

Please don't put words in my mouth or misrepresent what I said. If you don't agree with what I said, great. Then at least back it up with something other than just saying I'm wrong.

So if I understand correctly.......YOU have NO idea how many job applicants some of the most in demand job posts are getting. But you do know that some clients receive hundreds of applicants. However, you know that they aren't getting at least 300 applicants. Ok, that makes sense now.

[the-right-writer]

You are angry about a lot of things. You overreact to a factual statement with cyber screaming and more anger, and your post was speculation. There is no communication here. I'm done.

[1cac6772]

You are calling me angry? You are constantly in the forums trying to pick fights with people. You think you are the Upwork Police for some reason. Just this morning you were picking a fight with some people.

https://community.upwork.com/t5/Freelancers/Bids-are-so-frustrating/m-p/1428748#M793362

[atreglia]

---

 Dale wrote:

You literally troll the forums all day trying to pick fights with people, 

Or bugging people about their money.

[1cac6772]

Ya it was you. Is that post still up or has it been deleted? The one from this morning.

[atreglia]

---

 wrote:

Ya it was you. Is that post still up or has it been deleted? The one from this morning.

---

Naaa, my rodeo was last fall.  Once and done!  One of the worst, actually.  I never reported it so I'm sure it's still up, feel free to refer for educational purposes.

[1cac6772]

I found it.

https://community.upwork.com/t5/Freelancers/Bids-are-so-frustrating/m-p/1428748#M793362

[atreglia]

Yup, that's it!  Nasty, ooof!   I couldn't make that stuff up if I tried.

Why, you owe me at least 16 connects for all that education!  😂

[tjmisny]

Hey Dale, we're on the same team here.  I'm trying to help you make a more solid argument.  You can easily find out how many people are applying to your posts rather than speculating.  

I have an Upwork client account and have hired around $50k worth of freelancers.  Have posted over a dozen jobs.  I don't think I've ever gotten more than 50 proposals but my field (film/TV/animation) is more niche.  

[the-right-writer]

It takes time to be successful on Upwork. There are things you can do to improve your chance of being hired. Use the link to the Academy at the top of the page for Upwork resources. Your profile needs work, and completed. The first sentence is all the clients sees, so make sure it's a powerful statement on why you can do the job better than anyone else, backed up by hard skills.

Add to the profile paragraphs. Expand on why you are the best.

You have an asterisk at the beginning of a sentence that should be removed.

In your proposals, the client will only see the first two lines, so, make your best pitch to tell them how you will do the job better than anyone else. That should be the only time you apply for a job. If you don't have all the skills required, don't apply, or you will waste connects.

Last, but definitely not least, change your skill's title to searchable terms. Look through the Upwork jobs and use terms the client will use in your skills title. The current one will not bring clients, but it will bring scammers. Use the skills only, and do not add anything to it. I appreciate your current title, but it should go in the text below.

I would try changes and improvements, and see if it makes a difference. Every freelancer has to decide if their investment is worth the return.

[601d72f2]

I appreciate everyone's response and feedback on my initial post. When I think of how Upwork is being run, it reminds me of a fisherman dangling bait over the water of hundreds or thousands of fish. And the fish can position themselves closer to the bait only to miss catching it. Mind you, the bait itself is minuscule and the fisherman dont feel the need to give anything of greater value because its about satisfying his/her needs and not supporting the fish.  *I hope this makes sense.* This is my take on Upwork thus far...

[601d72f2]

I also have a "conspiracy theory" of sorts...Is there a way to tell that the job listings are from actual people and not the corporation itself? I ask this because of a concern that the money we spend on connects is what is "feeding the business" solely and they  (being Upwork) can potentially pose as "clients" to get us freelancers to buy and spend into their system to be "hired" only to not be...or to appear not to be hired into a job that doesnt exist. Please correct me if I am wrong. I dont pose as being an expert of Upwork as I am a bit of a novice. I can just see the possibility of this being true.