Reversal Notification: Hourly Payment Unsuccessful

[hashmizaid]

I received a notification via a support ticket that the client's payment was unsuccessful. The payment was returned saying that I don't meet the criteria to be covered for payment protection. I asked for clarification by replying to the ticket but within an hour the payment was already refunded back to the client without any valid reason. And thus I want urgent help from the community experts on this issue; the support chat refused to answer and I'll have to wait 24 hours for their response.

The client's payment method was verified when I started working on the contract, I logged in with the desktop time tracker without any problems as always and delivered the complete work to the client based on his given requirements. But the client seemed a little suspicious at the moment. He was new and needed the job done in 24 hours. I accepted as it was doable, after a few hours he wasn't responding properly to my messages, wasn't proving complete requirements and added more tasks. Anyway, I did complete the job with whatever he provided and submitted the entire work for revisions. He disappeared! After 3 days, the contract was suspended by Upwork for some unknown reasons. Here's the link to the job post: https://www.upwork.com/jobs/Perfect-Presentation-for-project-and-company-introduction_~0152453a6cef2...

Now, I was worry-free because I thought my payment was protected but then I received this notification and the amount was refunded in an hour. This was absolutely absurd and deceitful. Is this a dispute from the client or a technical issue with the client's payment method that Upwork failed to recognize? How should I approach this and get paid for the work I have done?

[lysis10]

So ok you used Tracker. Did you follow the payment protection rules? Memos and activity? I suggest 7 or above mins to stay protected with the occasional rare 6 min. Don't have two low activity segments in a row or you risk losing the hour. These rules used to be in their terms, but for whatever reason they don't have them listed anymore. Just from my experience, though, this will cover you.

[hashmizaid]

Yes, I was supposed to design a single asset so created only 1 memo and set a reminder of 4 hours to change it. I worked continuously for 12 hours and my activity level was obviously 9/10 most of the time.

The weekly limit was set to 12 hours but ended up tracking 12:30 hours (overtime 30 minutes) - can that be a reason for any Payment Protection violation? I should at least get paid for 12 hours and 30 minutes can be decided by the client. 

[lysis10]

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Zaid H wrote:

Yes, I was supposed to design a single asset so created only 1 memo and set a reminder of 4 hours to change it. I worked continuously for 12 hours and my activity level was obviously 9/10 most of the time.

The weekly limit was set to 12 hours but ended up tracking 12:30 hours (overtime 30 minutes) - can that be a reason for any Payment Protection violation? I should at least get paid for 12 hours and 30 minutes can be decided by the client. 

---

Anything over the limit won't be paid out. Are you saying you only lost 30 mins? Because that's the answer then.

Did you get paid anything at all? Or did they refund everything?

[hashmizaid]

No, I didn't get payment whatsoever. It was $510 for 12 hours at $42.5/hr and the entire sum of $510 was automatically refunded - I know I won't be paid for 30 minutes unless the client wanted to.

[3fd18e6f]

Hello Mrs Jennifer, greeting from Godbless your fellow freelancer 

[feed_my_eyes]

How did you manage to maintain high activity levels for 12.5 continuous hours? You didn't eat, or get up from your desk, or check your email during all that time?

[hashmizaid]

If you see the screenshot of my work diary attached to my main post you'll see the number and period of breaks I took. Obviously, I didn't work continuously in the literal sense but even if I did work for straight 12 hours without any breaks (which I totally can without eating or checking mail and have worked like that once or twice in the past risking burnout the very next day) this should never be a problem - for some people working for straight 2 hours is difficult that doesn't mean no one else can.

[r2d3]

In some cases, you could read some research article, do a video meeting ... in these case your keyboard/mouse activity will be low BUT you are working on the contract.

There should be a way to discuss these segments instead of UpWork deciding unilateraly to take back the money you earned JUST because the client scammed UpWork and did not pay.

If the client dispute the segment, there could be a discussion, I suppose.

[lysis10]

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David G wrote:

In some cases, you could read some research article, do a video meeting ... in these case your keyboard/mouse activity will be low BUT you are working on the contract.

There should be a way to discuss these segments instead of UpWork deciding unilateraly to take back the money you earned JUST because the client scammed UpWork and did not pay.

If the client dispute the segment, there could be a discussion, I suppose.

---

But in all those examples, you can show activity? I know this cuz I've been paid out for all of that and I had high activity.

I don't want a discussion either. If I want a discussion AKA mediation, I'll use escrow. With payment protection, there is no discussion. Look at work diary and that's it. It's great. 0 mediation overhead.

[r2d3]

Hi Jenifer, yes only segments with low activity were taken back.

However they corresponds to segment where I was reading research articles for the job.

So I should keep moving the mouse while reading ?

[lysis10]

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David G wrote:

Hi Jenifer, yes only segments with low activity were taken back.

However they corresponds to segment where I was reading research articles for the job.

So I should keep moving the mouse while reading ?

---

The Tracker only counts mouse clicks and keyboard activity, so you'd have to do one of those.

[efbe798b]

Jennifer,

Can you explain more about the memos and activity? I landed my first contract and the learning curve seems quite steep, even when using the timetracker. I made sure to pick a client that has payment verified and good reviews, they've been great so far. BUT Upwork Customer service for newbies is lacking, I emailed about verifying my bank info not matching (it's my llc business account) and uploaded docs with my LLC and full legal name and still nothing. I want to be sure I'm going to be paid for the work I'm putting in. Because so far my balance is still showing 0.00 and Upwork Academy Learning paths are LONG and vague. 

[yofazza]

balance is still showing 0.00

Money from the work this week (Monday to Sunday) will be placed on Client's review next week on February 20-24th.

Then it'll put on Upwork's security period for 5 days, which means it'll be available for withdrawal on March 1st.

So this week's money can be withdrawn after 2 weeks (on Wednesday).

Available balance is 0 but you should be able to see the money in one of the tabs here.

memos and activity

Just put some meaningful memo. Rubber terms. Even  this thread approves, accusations can change to eligibility after a few days.

[efbe798b]

That's a long time to trust and hope you'll get paid. 😐 The memos, do they have to be on the time tracker app itself or writing detailed updates in the To-Do area of your contract overview good enough? 

[yofazza]

They'll pay (they're not a scam site if that's what you're afraid of) but of course there are cases like this thread (client file a chargeback through their bank) etc.

The memo that is part of the requirement for payment protection must be written in the work diary (or the time tracker, the same). Not the To-Do area.

Activity is the lit bars under every segment.

And the unmatched bank legal name part should be sorted out with help from the mods/staffs.

[efbe798b]

THANK YOU! I'm about to log some hours today and I'll be sure to put the memos in the right place here on out. Seriously, so helpful, I appreciate it. 

[NikolaS]

Hi Zaid,

Thank you for reaching out to us. I shared your concern with the team handling your case and one of our agents will follow up with you on your support ticket as soon as possible to assist you further. 

[hashmizaid]

Ok, I'm waiting for their response.

[hashmizaid]

Hi Nikola,

Please review the support ticket I have raised. The Upwork Support team is putting false allegations about me and isn't able to prove those allegations. I am 100% eligible for Hourly Payment Protection and have provided detailed clarification/explanation from my side. The assigned representative is dodging my questions and providing vague responses. I should receive my payment.

- Zaid

[PradeepH]

Hi Zaid,

I can certainly understand your concerns and want you to know that in situations where the client contacts their bank and asks them to reverse the payment, Upwork offers to challenge the chargeback in an attempt to help the freelancer get the money back. Upwork would need to move quickly, so please provide the requested proof of the work or deliverables within 48 hours of being notified of the reversal if you’d like us to proceed. Upwork team would also review the client’s Upwork account because reversing a payment in most cases is against our Terms of Service.

Thank you,

Pradeep

[hashmizaid]

Thank you for notifying me - no one informed me about this. As per your direction, I just submitted several screenshots and the final file (deliverable) as proof of work and deliverable in the respective support ticket #38945691. Let me know if you need anything else. Thank you!

[hashmizaid]

Hi moderator! A week ago I received a confirmation from the support that I'm eligible for Hourly Payment Protection and that they will request a credit to be made to my account equal to the amount refunded. But they were unable to provide an ETA. Today that support ticket was closed without any update or communication whatsoever. I wonder whether the credit has been processed and how long it may take. Should I ping them again? Thanks!

[AndreaG]

Hi Zaid,

I checked your support ticket and can confirm that the team is handling the credit on their end. I am also unable to provide an ETA but please wait a little longer while the team does what needs to be done on their end for the credit to happen. If you do have any further questions or doubts please do feel free to update your support ticket.

[hashmizaid]

Hi moderator! It's been more than 2 months since I was notified that I will receive the credit under the Hourly Payment Protection. I followed up with them regarding this issue 1 month ago but yet I haven't received any credit or update whatsoever. I am unable to contact them using the Support ticket and I don't feel comfortable following up over and over again via email.

How long does the credit usually take under Hourly Payment Protection? And what do you suggest to do next?

[PradeepH]

Hi Zaid,

Thank you for reaching out to us. I am sorry to hear that you have not received the credit yet. I shared your report with our team to investigate this further and one of our agents will reach out to you using a support ticket to assist you. You can access your support tickets here .

Thank you,

Pradeep

[hashmizaid]

Hi moderator!

One of the Upwork agents created a new support ticket 1 month ago but I've not heard from them since then. I've tried contacting them on the same support chat but no one is entertaining my request whatsoever.

I am yet to receive the credit under the Hourly Payment Protection. I hope you understand it has been about 4 months since I am facing the issue with the credit and honestly by this time I should have received the payment as per the Upwork Terms of Service. I am starting to feel like I will never receive the credit and Upwork support is just stalling.

Kindly raise my concern to the appropriate team on priority and provide an ETA on the credit.

[ArjayM]

Hi Zaid,

I'm sorry to learn that this issue hasn't been resolved yet and we apologize for the delay. However, I can see that you've been in contact with the appropriate team for your case via a support ticket. We highly suggest you continue coordinating with the team through that ticket here and they will surely assist you accordingly. We seek your patience and utmost understanding while sorting this out for you. Thank you!

[hashmizaid]

Hi Arjay, they are not assisting me at all. As you can see I dropped them a message about one month ago and they are not replying. There isn't any update or communication from their end. I am tired of waiting!

[759e32fa]

Hi Zaid,

We're currently experiencing an unusually high volume of inquiries, causing delays in our response time. Nevertheless, we want you to know that your concerns and questions remain our top priority. We're working hard to get back to you as soon as possible.

To help us provide the best possible service, we kindly ask that you refrain from creating multiple tickets or posts about the same issue. This will enable our team to assist you more efficiently and get you the best possible outcome faster. Thank you for your patience and understanding during this time.

[hashmizaid]

Hello moderator,

It has been more than 6 months and I still haven't received the credit under the Hourly Payment Protection. Please raise my concern to the appropriate authority to initiate the credit on an urgent basis. The Upwork Support is not giving any update on the situation. This is totally unacceptable and unethical on Upwork's Support Team end.

[759e32fa]

Hi Zaid,

I'm sorry to hear that you have not heard back from the team yet. I followed up with them to make sure to prioritize your ticket. Kindly allow them time to review your account and they'll be in touch with you soon.

[wlyonsatl]

Zaid H.,

Did you confirm this new client's payment method was verified by Upwork before you began using TimeTracker?

If he was in a hurry, this may be why. He was hoping you wouldn't notice and hours billed under unverified payment methods is not covered by Upwork's excellent hourly payment protection.

It happens.

[hashmizaid]

The client's payment method was verified - I checked even before accepting the contract. He was very insistent on working on an hourly contract when I said we can do this at a fixed price. His payment method is still verified as we speak but my contract is suspended.

[lysis10]

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Zaid H wrote:

The client's payment method was verified - I checked even before accepting the contract. He was very insistent on working on an hourly contract when I said we can do this at a fixed price. His payment method is still verified as we speak but my contract is suspended.

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hmmm very strange to insist on hourly. What did he have you do? 

[hashmizaid]

It was a design job, I quoted him a price, he sent me an offer, and I started straight away the next morning. He gave decent direction at the beginning and I thought the project will be a success. And then later he became very vague and unresponsive. I felt like ending the contract without the payment but he was relying solely on me & the timeline was very tight - I wanted to help and I kept working. And this is what I got.

[lysis10]

Well, it looks like he hired three different freelancers to do the same thing and nobody got paid. Kinda strange he demanded hourly and just created an account with a short deadline (next day) but also not totally unheard of. Weird that you would not get paid, so I'm wondering if something about his quick account creation and multiple hires with a failed charge triggered fraud detection, but then again the review for hours should have cleared it if it's a legit job. Looks like the others used manual time and didn't get paid either or just never charged anything.

[ericaandrews]

As I tell people all the time on here, "Payment protection" doesn't apply to the 95%+ of cases that result in freelancers NOT getting paid, which is fraud - either clients using stolen/fake payment methods or running the 'chargeback' scam where they make a fake report to their bank that the transaction was 'unauthorized' and have it reversed.  Basically, because the most common scenarios where a client FAILS to pay (fraud) are not covered by 'payment protection', you are really the only one that can protect yourself.

"He was new and needed the job done in 24 hours. "

This was your first red flag.  'Verified payment method' means NOTHING because a client can easily use a stolen payment method.  My advice, never deal with a NEW, unproven client that needs a job done in a 'rush', especially done in less than a week, because by the time you find out they are a scam artist, they've gotten the work and split.   For this reason, I only deal with clients that have been on the platform at least 90 days and have MULTIPLE past hires where they paid money out to freelancers.  I don't deal with 'new' clients on the platform in a 'rush' to get a 'quick' job done for this very reason. I don't deal with any client with $0 paid out or less than 90 days on the platform, 'verified payment' or not.  Most of the 'new' clients are scam artists, and it takes weeks/months of the real clients actually hiring and paying to PROVE they are real clients and not scam artists.

Really, in these scenarios, all you're going to get from Upwork is an apology for the 'incovenience' and a promise to write a letter to the bank on your behalf asking them to return the money to Upwork, which they likely won't.  If a freelancer getting paid or not is at the discretion of the CLIENT's bank/financial institution, then I'm not seeing any 'payment protection' for the freelancer.

Look on the bright side: If you had already withdrawn the money to your account, you now be IN DEBT to upwork with a 'negative' balance when that refund went through. There are freelancers that basically end up IN DEBT to upwork sometimes because a client 'reverses' a payment like this after the freelancer transferred earnings to their bank account. It's the only situation I've seen where a customer fails to pay and the service provider ends up in debt or gets punished for the customer not paying.   Simply put, leave the 'new' clients alone in the future: In the past year, most of the 'new' client accounts being created have getting generated for the purposes of committing fraud and scams like this. That client account will be 'banned', and the same person will be back tomorrow under a new account via a new email address ripping somebody else off.

[lysis10]

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CJ A wrote:

As I tell people all the time on here, "Payment protection" doesn't apply to the 95%+ of cases that result in freelancers NOT getting paid, which is fraud - either clients using stolen/fake payment methods or running the 'chargeback' scam where they make a fake report to their bank that the transaction was 'unauthorized' and have it reversed.  Basically, because the most common scenarios where a client FAILS to pay (fraud) are not covered by 'payment protection', you are really the only one that can protect yourself.

---

Another freelancer said he was covered for a chargeback, so I think you are covered provided you aren't participating in fraud. Looking at the job and the client, this whole thing doesn't pass the sniff test tbh. The client created their account and the same day hired 4 different people, demanded hourly, and then payment bounced. 

But to the question of are chargebacks covered, have you been in this situation? I know lots of freelancers like to parrot their theories based on whatever, but it helps to hear from people who have actually been through it and then it makes sense to believe them.

[tlsanders]

" so I think you are covered provided you aren't participating in fraud."

This appears to be what the TOS say now. If I recall correctly, the language used to be more nebulous on that point.