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Should the power for clients to ruin a portfolio be nerfed?

Ace Contributor
Nathan A Member Since: Dec 29, 2020
31 of 46


I am not just talking about you, but everyone who complains about JSS, connects, minimum budget requirements, etc. is looking to improve the system in a way in which benefits them without considering the potentially negative effect it could have on others.



I can appreciate your sincerity. 

I've been a client myself on upwork, many times, and I'm the last person you'll see being selfish, so I do consider the grander scale. 

 

I'd love to have a conversation about the drawbacks of my suggestions, that was the entire point after all.

Community Guru
Jamie F Member Since: Mar 7, 2010
32 of 46

Nathan A wrote:



Perhaps the main drawback would be that it's not an improvement at all...


Having a more balanced and accurate JSS system for freelancers would not be an improvement at all? Interesting. I will have to humbly disagree Smiley Happy


25% of your feedbacks so far have resulted in clients who are not completely satisfied. I'd say it's doing just what it should be doing Smiley Wink 

And you can't blame Upwork for you taking a risk with a difficult client. That's on you. The rating system is there to help clients and freelancers get a better idea of what it will likely be like to work with each other - and you chose to ignore it. 

Ace Contributor
Nathan A Member Since: Dec 29, 2020
33 of 46

25% of your feedbacks so far have resulted in clients who are not completely satisfied. I'd say it's doing just what it should be doing Smiley Wink 

"Our mandate was extremely rush and Nathan have been very comprehensive and flexible with us. He went over and above the tasks that we ask for and did make it happen! Nathan is a creative mind that want to understand every aspects of your business and projects so that he can think forward and come up with a complete solution. This is great if you need someone to drive your project from design to completion."

Ah yes, so unsatisfied. This 5 star rating/feedback is from the same guy who gave me a 4.3 rating and then tried to re-hire me a 3rd time. Sometimes clients fail at their tasks outside of the upwork environment and want to take it out on someone else. That is unavoidable. 

Upwork would likely have a much bigger stain on their hands if I did not handle these clients and their projects, I can tell you that with certainty. No matter how difficult the client I will still go the extra mile and do the very best for them. 

Community Guru
Jennifer R Member Since: Sep 15, 2017
34 of 46

Nathan A wrote:

One effect of the system is that it encourages experienced freelancers to choose their clients carefully and avoid difficult clients. 

 

The JSS system also favours established freelancers over newcomers. 


Sure, but new comers don't have the same luxury to choose their clients wisely. New comers also have a harder time landing jobs because they have few or no feedback. All the more reason to have a more balanced JSS system.

Like it or not, I can't see any chance of Upwork making the kind of change to JSS that you're suggesting. 


For what reason do you say this? Would there be any drawbacks to the JSS improvement I suggested?

Just to be clear my suggestions are for projects where you have completed multiple milestones or multiple billing weeks before the contract is closed out. 


You could have started a new contract after each milestone and clients have the option to leave a feedback during ongoing contracts. That is something for you to manage.

And I chose my clients wisely when I started. That has nothing to do with luxury  but responsibility.

Ace Contributor
Nathan A Member Since: Dec 29, 2020
35 of 46


You could have started a new contract after each milestone and clients have the option to leave a feedback during ongoing contracts. That is something for you to manage.

And I chose my clients wisely when I started. That has nothing to do with luxury  but responsibility.


Not having the same luxury is not the same as choosing irresponsibly, for clarification.

 

You could have started a new contract after each milestone and clients have the option to leave a feedback during ongoing contracts. That is something for you to manage.

Not a luxury afforded to new comers either...if you tried this you wouldn't make it very far. Even established freelancers would probably find it hard to implement something so out of the norm of what other freelancers do... But I think you know this already

Community Guru
Jennifer R Member Since: Sep 15, 2017
36 of 46

Nathan A wrote:


You could have started a new contract after each milestone and clients have the option to leave a feedback during ongoing contracts. That is something for you to manage.

And I chose my clients wisely when I started. That has nothing to do with luxury  but responsibility.


Not having the same luxury is not the same as choosing irresponsibly, for clarification.


What I was trying to say was that as newcomer you might not have the luxury to choose from as many clients as established freelancers, but you still have the responsibility to choose them yourself. If you feel your choice was irresposible, I am not going to challange that assumption.


Nathan A wrote:


You could have started a new contract after each milestone and clients have the option to leave a feedback during ongoing contracts. That is something for you to manage.

Not a luxury afforded to new comers either...if you tried this you wouldn't make it very far. Even established freelancers would probably find it hard to implement something so out of the norm of what other freelancers do... But I think you know this already


There are a lot of clients that do not mind to create a new contract instead of new milestones. That is something you can also discuss with your clients and for some clients even their M.O..

I do not care what other freelancers do, but about my relationship with the client. Every client and every job is different that is the only norm you need to keep in mind.

Ace Contributor
Nathan A Member Since: Dec 29, 2020
37 of 46

I agree with the other posters that it is better to avoid working with difficult clients, although I also understand the temptation when you only have a few jobs under your belt on Upwork.


Yeah I agree too, but you pretty much hit it on the head though; it's hard when you are new to the platform, looking for work, and see a fun challenge.

 

Cancelling a contract mid-way through because the client is unreasonable probably wouldn't have faired any better either, probably much worst. So at least I stuck it out until the end and got what I got. 

I just wasn't ready for the review that dropped my JSS rate from 100 to 85% in one swoop, just because the contract happened to be a decent chunk of the earnings, and just because they were moody, even tho 7 milestones were so well done she hired me for an 8th. Doesn't seem right to me. 

Live and learn tho. 

 

 

Community Guru
Tonya P Member Since: Nov 26, 2015
38 of 46

Nathan A wrote:

I agree with the other posters that it is better to avoid working with difficult clients, although I also understand the temptation when you only have a few jobs under your belt on Upwork.


Yeah I agree too, but you pretty much hit it on the head though; it's hard when you are new to the platform, looking for work, and see a fun challenge.

 

Cancelling a contract mid-way through because the client is unreasonable probably wouldn't have faired any better either, probably much worst. So at least I stuck it out until the end and got what I got. 

I just wasn't ready for the review that dropped my JSS rate from 100 to 85% in one swoop, just because the contract happened to be a decent chunk of the earnings, and just because they were moody, even tho 7 milestones were so well done she hired me for an 8th. Doesn't seem right to me. 

Live and learn tho. 

 

 


So the other 4. something review didn't drop your JSS?

Ace Contributor
Nathan A Member Since: Dec 29, 2020
39 of 46

So the other 4. something review didn't drop your JSS?


Not gonna lie I was a little triggered from his 4.3 review because I came through big for him on a rush job (stayed up from 11pm to 7am to help him meet a deadline). But he was difficult and that's just how some people are.

 

But no, it didn't lower my JSS because he didnt end the contract when he was moody or try to sabotage my profile. He likely left honest feedback in the secret portion (that he would hire me again and would use upwork again).

 

You may have noticed that was the second job I did for him. He actually sent me another (3rd) invite after that job, which I declined. 

Ace Contributor
Nathan A Member Since: Dec 29, 2020
40 of 46

When I've hired freelancers in the past and had multiple milestones I would weigh the entire job before leaving feedback. I also understand that this is their lifeline, so I'm a little more gentle. 

 

Some people can't help being crappy people, though. Implementing an improved JSS system that collects feedback throughout various milestones or weekly billing could avoid an unfair human element and calculate things more evenly. 

This would also be nice for freelancers who 'do' end up in a situation with a terrible client. Maybe they are not as wise as me in the beginning and cannot tell the client will be a nightmare, and instead of being 'trapped' they could cancel a contract with confidence knowing the entire rating might not be based on the final interaction. 

 

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