Unprofessional Client Threating

[xdzain461]

Hey Upwork Community,

I worked for a client for 6 months and last week I just asked him for a 3 week break just because of my exams. He acted unprofessional and threatened me for bad feedback on Upwork.

I told him it's not a right way to treat freelancers and I might provide bad feedback to you on your Facebook page about your behaviour.

Now, He has created a fake NDA and using it against me on Upwork and I guarantee him that despite of his unprofessional behaviour I won't provide bad feedback to him but he is keep messaging me on Upwork and threating.

What should I do? Kindly help me in this regard.

Thanks,

Zain Mushtaq

[elyannie]

If you need a break you should be able to take one at any time.

You are free to close the contract and take a break if you need it.

Also, if the client is threatening you, you really should report it. That kind of behavior should not go unreported. Otherwise, that client can keep getting away with that with other freelancers and it's up to us to keep this platform safe.

[prestonhunter]

re: "I told him it's not a right way to treat freelancers and I might provide bad feedback to you on your Facebook page about your behaviour."

You were out of line.

This is Upwork. This is not Facebook.

It is a violation of Upwork ToS for you to interact with a client using platforms and communication methods OUTSIDE of Upwork unless the client has explicitly given you permission to do so.

You violated Upwork ToS.

Your account could be suspended or otherwise sanctioned for doing this.

[xdzain461]

Hey Preston,

First of all Upwork allows freelancer to chat/call out od the platform after contract

Secondly, I have seen freelancers feedback on his Facebook page that's why I said that. Moreover, I guess it is not an Violation of Upwork to provide bad feedback on any other platform other than upwork. If it against ToS, I won't do it 🙂

[xdzain461]

Yes, Client has given me permission to chat on Skype and I didn't chat with him on Facebook. I just worked with his Facebook Page

[prestonhunter]

Zain:

The client never authorized you to leave feedback about him on Facebook.

I do not work for Upwork.

I do not make the rules.

It is my opinion that it is a violation of Upwork ToS for you to leave negative feedback about him on Facebook, or for you to threaten to do so.

Whether or not it ACTUALLY is a violation of Upwork ToS, I consider this bad form. Dirty pool. You are working with this client on Upwork. I believe Upwork users should adhere to a philosophy: "What happens on Upwork stays on Upwork."

[xdzain461]

Ok Pretson,

I will not provide him bad feedback on Facebook or on any other platform. I already provided him on Upwork and that's enough I guess.

Yeah, He went out of his limit and start abusing me on Skype and that's why I said it.

It is a lesson for me in future to keep client's chat on Upwork because on other platform they say whatever they want 

[colettelewis]

---

Preston H wrote:

Zain:

The client never authorized you to leave feedback about him on Facebook.

I do not work for Upwork.

I do not make the rules.

It is my opinion that it is a violation of Upwork ToS for you to leave negative feedback about him on Facebook, or for you to threaten to do so.

Whether or not it ACTUALLY is a violation of Upwork ToS, I consider this bad form. Dirty pool. You are working with this client on Upwork. I believe Upwork users should adhere to a philosophy: "What happens on Upwork stays on Upwork."

---

___________________________

Preston, 

While I agree it is bad form (if understandable), I cannot find this particular clause anywhere in the Upwork ToS. 

And you also strongly stated that  the OP risked having his account suspended,  without really being sure of your ground.  It seems to me that the OP has some reason to complain about the client's behaviour. 

[prestonhunter]

re: "While I agree it is bad form (if understandable), I cannot find this particular clause anywhere in the Upwork ToS."

Upwork TOS specifically prohibits freelancers from looking up information about clients and contacting those clients through non-Upwork methods. When I wrote my original post in this thread, the freelancer had not yet said anything about working directly on the client's Facebook page. So I assumed the the freelancer found the Facebook page through a search, which would mean that interaction on that Facebook page would be a ToS violation.

re: "It seems to me that the OP has some reason to complain about the client's behaviour."

I have not commented on the client's behavior.

[allergywriter]

If he actually threatened you and I mean a real threat - you should reach out to the CS team with the contract number. They can look at messages.

Yes, you can take 3 weeks off. But how much advance notice did you give him?

Several years ago I needed to take a month off due to surgery. I started letting my regular clients know about this several months in advance and even helped them find temps in my absence. If you said, "hey I need to take off 3 weeks starting next Tuesday I would be pissed as well."

Did you give the client plenty of notice?

Did you act professionally? (threatening to leave bad feedback ANYWHERE makes this a no)

If it is really important to make this person wrong, contact CS about the behavior or just end the contract and move on.

Either way, I hope you learned something from the experience.

[xdzain461]

If reporting someone to Law of his country and on Upwork based on a Fake NDA is a threat, then he's threating me.

Yes, I acted professional and told him 3 days earlier but he expected me to tell 1 month earlier

[allergywriter]

Yeah 3 days notice to take off 3 weeks isn't terribly professional IMHO

I would have given him a month

Think of it this way - if that client depended on you...you just pulled the rug out from under him.

If you have broken no law, contacting the police isn't a threat..is it?

[xdzain461]

Emeregency can happen.

Anything can happen and on average it takes 3 days on Upwork to hire a new professional freelancer.

Ok, So client is allowed to create a fake NDA and report it to who ever he wants.

Creation of fake NDA isn't a threat

Reporting it to Upwork isn't a threat

Reporting it to Police isn't a threat

I got my answer and post is closed. Thank You

[researchediting]

---

Zain M wrote:

Emeregency can happen.

Anything can happen and on average it takes 3 days on Upwork to hire a new professional freelancer.

---

Exams are not an emergency. They are scheduled well in advance.
Average hiring time has absolutely nothing to do with our professional responsibiities to long-term clients—or for that matter any clients.

[xdzain461]

Well, it's Covid time.

Nothing is being happened as per schedule. We had exams delayed and as soon I get informed, I informed the client and it doesn't matter at all.

Even if one call it unprofessional behaviour then he is allowed to give me a bad feedback on Upwork but he went out of line, created a fake NDA and keep reporting me just because we had an argue when I told him about my leave.

So, In your opinion, leaving any company with telling 3 days earlier is unprofessional and creation of a Fake NDA and keep threatening the freelancer is a professional behaviour?

[petra_r]

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Zain M wrote:

So, In your opinion, leaving any company with telling 3 days earlier is unprofessional and creation of a Fake NDA and keep threatening the freelancer is a professional behaviour?

---

No, it isn't, so you both get to leave appropriate feedback for each other for the way you mishandled the contract. 

What exactly is your question?

[xdzain461]

The Client has created a Fake NDA and reporting it against me on Upwork. So, i had two exact questions:

1- Can a fake NDA affect my Upwork profile?

I got answered by Upwork support that NDA either fake or real is only between freelancers and client. Upwork has nothing to do with it.

2- Do such clients should be allowed on Upwork? Just like if a freelancer does violation he/she gets suspended, Client has created a Fake NDA, clearly threatening me on Upwork messages. Client started abusing me on Skype when he came to know I gave him 1 star feedback. None of these are violation of Upwork ToS?

[xdzain461]

Both of the questions are being addressed by Upwork Support as well. I hope they will understand my request.

I just told you because you asked 🙂

[feed_my_eyes]

---

Zain M wrote:

The Client has created a Fake NDA and reporting it against me on Upwork. So, i had two exact questions:

1- Can a fake NDA affect my Upwork profile?

I got answered by Upwork support that NDA either fake or real is only between freelancers and client. Upwork has nothing to do with it.

2- Do such clients should be allowed on Upwork? Just like if a freelancer does violation he/she gets suspended, Client has created a Fake NDA, clearly threatening me on Upwork messages. Client started abusing me on Skype when he came to know I gave him 1 star feedback. None of these are violation of Upwork ToS?

---

Why do you keep talking about a "fake" NDA? In what way is it fake? If the client asked you to sign an agreement and you did so, then what's the problem? It's unlikely to be enforceable, but you shouldn't have signed it if you didn't agree with it.

[researchediting]

---

Zain M wrote:

Well, it's Covid time.

Nothing is being happened as per schedule. We had exams delayed and as soon I get informed, I informed the client and it doesn't matter at all.

Even if one call it unprofessional behaviour then he is allowed to give me a bad feedback on Upwork but he went out of line, created a fake NDA and keep reporting me just because we had an argue when I told him about my leave.

So, In your opinion, leaving any company with telling 3 days earlier is unprofessional and creation of a Fake NDA and keep threatening the freelancer is a professional behaviour?

---

You had your exams "delayed"? Meaning they were scheduled. So you could have informed the client of the time you needed according to the original schedule, and then revised your request when the delay occurred, and again when the delay was lifted.

How convenient that in the summary above you left out your escalation of the situation that wasn't a situation till you made it one: threatening to trash the client on social media for saying he was dissatisfied with your service when it was unsatisfactory—which is exactly what the feedback system is for.

[petra_r]

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Zain M wrote:

The problem is not exams only, its freelancing, I can leave whenever I want.

---

Yes, you can indeed. And the client can leave feedback expressing freely how they feel about that.

All the rest is just white noise and has nothing to do with the essence of this: Your right to leave and the client's right to leave feedback.

Upwork will not interfere with either.

---

Zain M wrote:

Now, Will Upwork do anything if I report such behaviour to Upwork?

---

Whether Upwork does or does not "do anything" won't change the feedback or its affect on your JSS.

Of course, you have now also reported your own threats, so would you like Upwork to "do something" to your account too? Such as suspend you?

---

Zain M wrote:

You've never condemned his behaviour.

---

How would that help anyone?

It looks like your behaviour and your clients behaviour were roughly equally horrid and unprofessional. 

---

Zain M wrote:

I guess in your point of you it is okay if a client threaten freelancer but if a freelancer does so in return it's freelancer's fault.

---

Not at all. The platform would be much better off without people who threaten others. Freelancers and clients alike. I think such people should just be suspended and their accounts closed permanently. Which is usually what happens when a freelancer threatens a client.

[pa_upwork]

I have been with Upwork for a week. 

I got a client who was usually dismissive , condescending and outright insulting on the chat. 

I had concluded earlier that I needed to cross the $1k earnings milestone with 5* reviews to be successful on upwork and was taking the jobs well below my pay grade.

Given that background, I was determined to earn a 5* from the client and I kept ignoring his behaviour and continued to be accommodating to his demands. 

I always responded politely even sprinkling in a touch of obeisance. 

I worked more than double what was agreed.

Just to get that 5* rating. 

 The client slowly graduated to be outright threatening.

That's the thing with bullies, they need to be stood up to.  When he threatened me, I just offered a comeback "Try, I challenge you ! " 

Bullies are outraged and confused when that happens. Client went berserk.

This happened today 17-05-2021, client left chat promising to employ a full-time person just to get me suspended from upwork.

Lets see what happens. I have taken too much pain for my upwork profile and really don't want it suspended. Any advice on what I should do (or not do) going forward is very much appreciated.

PS : Until I have had enough, I have worked very hard and managed to get approval on 60% of the milestones on the project. 

[tlbp]

---

Prakash A wrote:

I have been with Upwork for a week. 

I got a client who was usually dismissive , condescending and outright insulting on the chat. 

I had concluded earlier that I needed to cross the $1k earnings milestone with 5* reviews to be successful on upwork and was taking the jobs well below my pay grade.

Given that background, I was determined to earn a 5* from the client and I kept ignoring his behaviour and continued to be accommodating to his demands. 

I always responded politely even sprinkling in a touch of obeisance. 

I worked more than double what was agreed.

Just to get that 5* rating. 

 The client slowly graduated to be outright threatening.

That's the thing with bullies, they need to be stood up to.  When he threatened me, I just offered a comeback "Try, I challenge you ! " 

Bullies are outraged and confused when that happens. Client went berserk.

This happened today 17-05-2021, client left chat promising to employ a full-time person just to get me suspended from upwork.

Lets see what happens. I have taken too much pain for my upwork profile and really don't want it suspended. Any advice on what I should do (or not do going forward is very much appreciated)

---

RIP your profile

[prestonhunter]

re: "I had concluded earlier that I needed to cross the $1k earnings milestone with 5* reviews to be successful on Upwork and was taking the jobs well below my pay grade."

Hmm. Well, that's not a rule or anything.

I don't recommend any new freelancers "taking jobs well below their pay grade."

re: "Given that background, I was determined to earn a 5* from the client and I kept ignoring his behaviour and continued to be accommodating to his demands."

I don't recommend any freelancers putting up wth unacceptable client behavior, regardless of where the freelancer is in his Upwork experience.

re: "When he threatened me, I just offered a comeback "'Try, I challenge you!'"

This was inappropriate on your part. This was unprofessional.

re: "This happened today 17-05-2021, client left chat promising to employ a full-time person just to get me suspended from Upwork."

Well, that's just silly.

The client is putting YOU (a stranger) above the needs of his own project.

Based on your story, this client cares more about you than he does about himself and his project.

Prakash:
This is an interesting story.

For others who are reading this, here are some tips:

- Upwork can not monitor client behavior. If a client behaves inappropriately, only the freelancer knows this.

- Only the freelancer can DECIDE if a client's behavior is inappropriate. Some freelancers may find "a client wearing a hat" to be inappropriate. Some freelancers may find "a client threatening to kill my dog" to be inappropriate. Upwork does not have a comprehensive "list" of rules. Nobody can say "Because this specific action is not listed in Upwork ToS, it is acceptable.

- It is possible to report inappropriate client behavior. It MAY be the right thing to REPORT inappropriate client behavior. It may NOT be. A cilent who asks you to work on Thursdays? Even after you told him you don't work on Thursdays? This is inappropriate, but it doesn't mean you should report it to Upwork.

- Ultimately, YOU (the freelancer) must be the one who "handles" inappropriate client behavior. You have many options, including:
-- ignore the behavior

-- ask the client to stop the behavior

-- stop working for the client, without telling him why

-- stop working for the client, while telling him why

- The best practice is to put a stop to inappropriate client behavior EARLY, so that a client doesn't get accustomed to getting away with such behavior. Janet was hired by a client who needs to meet via Zoom a few times a week. In one of the first meetings, the client was late. This is inappropriate client behavior. Janet didn't say anything about it at that first meeting. But at the second meeting, Janet politely and calmly told the client: "Henry, we are going to be meeting regularly. I think I should be up front about something from the beginning. I begin logging time at the start of the hour, and I wait for ten minutes. After ten minutes, I stop logging time and leave the Zoom session. The meeting must then be rescheduled. Do you have any questions about that?" The client appreciated Janet's professional demeanor and said: "Thank you for being clear about that. What you said makes sense and is fine."

- If you are not sure what to do, then describe you situation in the Forum and ask for advice.

[pa_upwork]

Thank you for your detailed answer and good advice. I agree with everything you have said.

I don't recommend any new freelancers "taking jobs well below their pay grade."

I just have a  disagreement (in my limited knowledge) on the above.

It would be great if you can elaborate on this one too. 

For a newcomer it is usually difficult on upwork to get hired. More so for 'Expert' category.

It seemed almost impossible to get "Expert' Category work with no prior history.  With proposals and connects going down the drain bidding for work I would want to do / in line with my skills.

It is completely understandable to me.  Why would a client pay top dollar to hire someone with no history ? I would'nt.

So what are the options here for the freelancer ?

My conclusion was to build a history with whatever you can get. What can I do better here. ?

Regards

Prakash

[prestonhunter]

Prakesh
That all makes sense.

One thing some new freelancers do is work on fixed-price contracts, which do NOT have an hourly rate attached to them. So anybody looking at the job history can't see rates.

If you work on hourly contracts, I don't think anybody - even if they are new - should work way below a rate that is appropriate for them. But yes, I get it that a person might start at a lower rate than they hope to work for eventually, and work up gradually.

[pa_upwork]

I am making a note of this. Hindsight is 20/20,  but I do wonder perhaps client attitude would have been much better if my rates were higher. 

[colettelewis · Accepted solution]

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Zain M wrote:

Hey Upwork Community,

I worked for a client for 6 months and last week I just asked him for a 3 week break just because of my exams. He acted unprofessional and threatened me for bad feedback on Upwork.

I told him it's not a right way to treat freelancers and I might provide bad feedback to you on your Facebook page about your behaviour.

Now, He has created a fake NDA and using it against me on Upwork and I guarantee him that despite of his unprofessional behaviour I won't provide bad feedback to him but he is keep messaging me on Upwork and threating.

What should I do? Kindly help me in this regard.

Thanks,

Zain Mushtaq

---

_________________________

Zain, I have flagged your post and hope that you will get some help. I think your client is threatening you. Also his attitude is completely against the concept of freelancing. You are free to take time off. You are free to do your exams. 

You might lose this client - I would say good riddance. You will find another client. 

Good luck for your exams. 

[xdzain461]

Thanks a lot Nichola,

Yes, He was my highest paying client but still I have no regret of losing him as I know I will find a better one on Upwork.

All of my concern and reason of posting was to just let Upwork know a Client has created a Fake NDA and using it against me on Upwork and Law

[BojanS]

Hi Zain,

I'm sorry to hear about your experience with this client. I can see that you're already communicating with our team regarding this report via your open ticket. I’ll go ahead and follow up with the team handling your case and you can expect to receive an update on your ticket as soon as possible. 

Thank you for your patience.

[ceefaeca]

I also faced a client who threatened me to give bad feedback. Unfortunately, we cannot do anything in this, until you have evidence to show Upwork's team. 

 But I'd say you don't need to worry about any fake NDA as everything here is based on the contract on which the client has hired you, so you have all your things in order, thanks to Upwork!

I'd recommend dumping such a client who is forcing you to work during the times when you cannot, as it appears you have a genuine reason too. One of the major perks of freelancing is that we are our own boss, don't tolerate any bossy attitude of anyone. 

Lastly, if you wish to bring things in order, request him to have a talk on a video call. People sometimes change when they talk you live face to face, on chats one can say anything.