UpWork's Connects Bidding System is terrible

[stevenvitte12]

I discussed this with other freelancers in another forum topic, but I wanted to start my own thread about this issue that has developed on UpWork. 

This is my honest opinion on UpWork's Connects System of bidding on jobs. It's absolutely terrible. It clearly wasn't well thought out at all when it was implemented. 

You may have read comments from other freelancers about how "bidding wars" have developed where the amount of Connects submitted goes up to astronomical levels. This Connects System of bidding is simply not sustainable for the long-term. It's a system that is already being abused by many freelancers who are simply not qualified for the jobs they are applying for, and in some cases, these same unqualified freelancers will get hired just because they submitted the most Connects out of anyone else. This doesn't happen all the time, but don't tell me this never happens either.

UpWork has allowed this Connects Bidding System to become a casino game of sorts where you have to do the following:

1. Buy X amount of Connects for considerable amounts of $ to even get the opportunity to bid on jobs.
2. Submit your proposals to potential clients with huge amounts of Connects in your bid.
3. (Likely outcome these days) You either a) get outbid by someone who is nowhere near as qualified as you for the job, or b) you are the highest bid for the job but you still don't get the job, or c) the client abruptly closes the job so that no one gets it and you have to start all over again.
4. The end result of all this, whether you get a job or not, is that you end up paying UpWork money. That's basically at the heart of all this. UpWork makes money off the hard work you put in to even participate in their system, to work on jobs, and make money for your own bank account. (Lest we forget you have to pay UpWork % fees and state tax fees as well?)

It's easy for some freelancers who have deep enough bank accounts to simply buy as many Connects as they want and use them to bid on jobs, but ultimately what UpWork has done is promote bad behaviors while doing so. In other words, this Connects Bidding System is sending all the wrong messages to people. For someone who doesn't have a deep enough bank account and lives well below the poverty line (myself), long-term it is unaffordable to keep playing this casino game and "hope" that things turn around, especially if you have so many clients out there who refuse to verify their UpWork Payment methods, or worse, you bump into a scammer.

I have been working here since late 2014, back when we still had Elance and oDesk as separate entities. At least with those platforms back then, they knew what they were doing. They had sturdy business models in place that worked, and they had systems in place where it was fair for freelancers to have a chance to apply for any jobs they wanted. Here with UpWork in 2023, you simply don't get that.

This current Connects Bidding System is a complete joke, and long-term I will not be supporting this anymore. Come 2024, if significant changes are not made to this, such as getting rid of the Connects altogether, then I will be announcing my "retirement" from the UpWork platform and move to another freelancing platform where I will have more freedom to apply for jobs... and without having to waste $20-$100+ on Connects. I would rather work on other platforms, or simply go "lone wolf independent" and get jobs my own creative way than to blow money on a system that doesn't guarantee me any jobs. It's what becomes the definition of insanity. Continuously doing something the same way and expecting a different result.

If UpWork wants to make more money, then surely there are other ways for this organization to do so, which shouldn't involve having to beg us to buy Connects. To say that I have been discouraged by UpWork in these last 2 years alone would be a huge understatement. Productivity on UpWork has gone way down, and I know that's not a coincidence. 

In closing, because I don't want this being long-winded, there is only one way for UpWork to go if they don't make any changes to this Connects Bidding System. Down. I don't just mean down, but I mean rock bottom downhill. I have a theory that UpWork as an organization is losing money left and right, which partially explains why they have this Connects System in place. If freelancers like me who have had 9 years of active experience using your platform are now unsatisfied with it, then you know something is wrong. I don't want to read replies that say "What are you talking about? This Connects System is fine!" because it's obvious you don't understand what is at the heart of this issue. Do you enjoy paying so much money to even bid on a job? Pure insanity that must stop soon.

[the-right-writer]

No ideas, other than give me everything for free.

[tlsanders]

We have seen all of the inane ideas repeated over and over and over again for years. 

Give freelancers who never get hired all their connects back so they can drive more clients off the platform.

Set up obstacles so fewer clients post jobs here. 

Hire hundreds of additional employees to hand check every job post. 

Why would anyone spend time listening to people who can't even work out how to run a freelancing business expound on how a publicly-traded corporation should be operating--especially when 100% of the ideas would put the company more in the red? 

[the-right-writer]

You still have provided no ideas or helpful information. Continuing to complain about the basic platform functions is pointless.

No, absolutely no one whining about .15 connects has offered any ideas or solutions. Everyone wants free connects and returns, etc. No solutions, just whining and demanding, and wanting hand-holding that will cost a fortune. If you can't afford .15 connects, you should not be here. That goes for anyone. You either accept being an adult in self-employment, or you whine about how unfair it is you should have to pay.

Why are you applying for hundreds of jobs you don't get? I don't do that, and real, experienced freelancers don't do that either. You have to look at your return on the investment. If you learned about vetting clients, you would not be putting in hundreds of proposals with no views or hires.

For the skilled freelancers, who bother to read and actually follow the rules, Upwork is not a gamble, nor are the connects. For the unskilled, throwing connects, yes, it is a gamble because they have no marketable skills. Instead of whining and complaining, real freelancers do what they need to do for their business.

[marjan22]

So many words and nothing is said.

Can you or anyone from dream team name at least one good thing about the Casino model?

[tlsanders]

It's only a casino model if you have no skills to offer. 

I know you have a very bleak view on...well...everything, but I don't believe that even you think clients are closing their eyes and choosing a freelancer at random from the list of proposals. 

[ajay_0618]

Wrong!  You can have all the skills in the world but when there is 55 to 75 connects for high bidders it becomes a casino model no longer driver by the best freelancer.

[tlsanders]

Most freelancers on Upwork never pay a single penny in fees on work. So, if Upwork didn't use connects and made job proposals free as you insist they should, they would be providing services to several million people for free.

If you feel you're getting nothing in return, why on earth are you here? What is your incentive to keep flushing money down the toilet? 

[the-right-writer]

Some people want to argue and create chaos. I guess they think it looks like action.

[tlsanders]

It seems almost anything is easier and more inviting than taking responsibility for your own business.

[feed_my_eyes]

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Steven V wrote:

I have been working here since late 2014, back when we still had Elance and oDesk as separate entities. At least with those platforms back then, they knew what they were doing. They had sturdy business models in place that worked, and they had systems in place where it was fair for freelancers to have a chance to apply for any jobs they wanted.

---

Why do you think they needed to merge, if they had such sturdy business models in place?

[2578476b]

You are right 👍

[2578476b]

The New Bees are Suffering.

[yofazza]

Definitely not all. 

Upwork confirmed that they rotate the, in short, chance to get work.

I often see newbs getting jobs easily. Here's the latest, while the best one is where a newb gets two jobs in the first week.

[27976d7e]

I feel your pain man. I can live with it being a newbie, but feel for the long timers on here. 

[a759141e]

I totally agree. It's disappointing to pay for a job, even more, to pay for a job you will not get. A fair thing would be to be charged once you get the job and paid. Thanks. 

[the-right-writer]

Where in freelancing do you have a guarantee of getting a job?

No one seems to understand self-employment or freelancing.

No, the fair thing is to be an adult in self-employment. As I have asked before, who pays for your expenses? I have to pay for mine, where do you people get someone to pay for everything?

Too many people are used to having things handed to them like an employer. If that's what you want, go find a job where everything is paid for you, and you don't have to worry about anything except showing up.

If you are a real freelancer, not just someone who finds a job here, you know how to act in business, and it is not to whine and complain about paying your way. Tell me - where in the physical world or on decent platforms do you just make money?

[a759141e]

You're right. It's more a  stock market than a platform to offer an aqquire services. I guess I am in the wrong place. 

[marjan22]

Its more of a Casino than a freelance site at the moment. 

[the-right-writer]

Only for the unskilled.

[marjan22]

For everybody.

[the-right-writer]

Nope. Just the unskilled.

[ajay_0618]

Explain to me how outragiously being outbidding by anyone to get a job means you are unskilled?   You really have you head in the sand

[ajay_0618]

Wrong!  get outbid and see what she is talking about.

[the-right-writer]

Why does no one ever answer my questions? Who pays for your expenses?

Where are these magical places that do not charge, have no scams, and have excellent clients?

[pgregory_indigo]

I think the point is, the expenses are being charged at multiple points. Nobody is suggesting that UpWork give things away for free. It seems that everyone here is happy to pay the percentage of income that UpWork charges, this is entirely reasonable. The issue comes when UpWork want to monetise at both ends, charge to get the job, and then charge when you've got the job, this is what I think folks are suggesting is unreasonable.

I understand that many freelancers won't get the job, it can only go to one after all, and that UpWork would lose out on all the "services" (this is questionable, the cost to provide this web site is likely to be minimal) the freelancer has used to that point, so from their perspective, they choose to charge at every opportunity to ensure they get some money out of every potential transaction. However, I believe this validates the "minimum effort" approach that UpWork follow. Suppose they were to put more effort into ensuring that good freelancers get matched with good clients, validating and monitoring both sides. In that case, they'd get more successful job matches, and therefore more revenue on the backend where it should be taken. The current approach simply allows them to sit back, do next to nothing, provide virtually no measurable service, and still monetise. It's clever if you stop and think about it, but is it fair? 

[the-right-writer]

It is astounding to me how people with no experience running a site this size, will proclaim how little it costs. I have never run a site this size, but I have much, much smaller, and the costs can be burdensome. The size alone costs a lot of money.

so from their perspective, they choose to charge at every opportunity to ensure they get some money out of every potential transaction.

Upwork is a business.

However, I believe this validates the "minimum effort" approach that UpWork follow. Suppose they were to put more effort into ensuring that good freelancers get matched with good clients, validating and monitoring both sides

How many millions will that cost? One of the reasons they broke into the black is that they got rid of 15% of their work force. No, I’m not paying for that, and waiting for this process to happen would be a nightmare. Additionally, what few clients left, will leave. And monitoring? I don’t know what that means, but it’s going to cost. I’ll pay for job access, but I’m not paying someone at Upwork to “monitor” adults in business.

The current approach simply allows them to sit back, do next to nothing, provide virtually no measurable service, and still monetise. It's clever if you stop and think about it, but is it fair? 

There’s that word again, “fair.” I have never seen anything in Upwork about fairness, which is not surprising because it is a business and “fair” is a subjective term. What you think is fair might not be what the next freelancer thinks. If Upwork actually made money, it would be a plus.

[pgregory_indigo]

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Jeanne H wrote:

It is astounding to me how people with no experience running a site this size, will proclaim how little it costs. I have never run a site this size...

---

I have, and much much bigger and more complex.

[the-right-writer]

Please do tell. I find it incredible that anyone who has the slightest experience with running the internal processes of a site this large and complex would make such an obviously silly claim. So, how much do you believe it costs to run the site? You must have a specific dollar amount you can prove, otherwise, you wouldn't claim you could make a bigger site for less. Let's see the dollar comparisons.

I have heard this claim so often, it's absurd. If you don't recognize the cost involved, then I have to wonder, were you paying the bills on the site?

I'm sorry, I do not believe you have ever set up a site with millions and millions of users that was cheap. I have too much experience with costs and advising businesses. So, what was this site that had millions and millions of users? I'm sure we will know it if there are many millions of users.

[pgregory_indigo]

I'm not going to go into the dollar details, I have more integrity than that, so feel free to call me a liar if you choose.

It was an enterprise services site, b2b not b2c, and complexity doesn't only come from the number of users, that's only a single, often insignificant, parameter, the complexity of the site came from other elements of the service, this site is pretty much boiler-plate in comparison. I was CTO at the time, so no, I didn't pay the bills, but I was solely responsible for the budget of the product. Bottom line, I have experience with budgeting for a large-scale cloud services system, I understand where the costs come from, especially when hosted on something like Cloudflare, AWS or Azure.

I'm sure you're aware that hosting "millions" of user accounts and processing simple messages (which is all a proposal is) through a web services system is not a costly part of the overall running of such a system. Every proposal that a freelancer runs through this site will have a negligible cost to UpWork, a small amount of storage and virtually no bandwidth. In terms of IT, their costs will come from hosting video calls and other more intensive services, which only come into play once a contract is underway. 

I'd be willing to bet most of UpWork's outgoings are on marketing, financial transaction management and insurance coverage. But hey, what do I know, I'm just a liar with absurd claims, you clearly know far more about this than I do.

[tlsanders]

I would sincerely like to know why you believe Upwork should provide free services to the millions of freelancers who never get a job and pay fees, and why you think the small percentage of freelancers who earn money here should pay more to subsidize the free services Upwork would provide to those millions who would be paying nothing.

[a759141e]

I totally agree. It's disappointing to pay for a job you will not get. A fair thing would be to be charged once you get the job and paid. Thanks. 

[tlsanders]

Why do you think that the small percentage of freelancers who actually make money and pay fees on their jobs should also be paying for the many millions who never get a job and never pay a dime in fees? 

[caseypletcher]

It's weird how so many people jump to the defense of a company that is squeezing every penny out of the people using their platform. People are obviously abusing the system. I've seen 100 connects bids. I feel like the people defending these practices are the ones jacking up the bids. It's a scummy business practice. If they had any direct competitors it would stop. 

[yofazza]

They are not actually defending the company but just have a bit 'broader' views.

What solutions do you have in mind when this company you use is actually never made any profit for almost a decade? Even after trying to become a high quality marketplace (that was profitable to you).

They need to try to do something else, to try to start to return the investment. 

[the-right-writer]

It is no defense of Upwork to state the obvious. When you freelance, there are no guarantees. No guarantees you will find a job to apply for, and no guarantees of getting a job.

[tlsanders]

It's weird that so many people are so narrowly programmed that anything someone says that is different from what they think is perceived as defense of Upwork.

[7ba56d1a]

These days, there are far fewer of the type of client my services suit best. They've moved away from Upwork. What's left is mostly volunteer opportunities, but if they've a reasonable offer price wise then they don't offer enough information about the project or their needs to know if it's worth dumping connects/money into.

[artanimator]

I totally agree with your post.

Upwork has lowered its profits in terms of commission by putting flat 10% fees on every project a freelancer receives. However, they have created this system of bidding, which really creates problems for freelancers to deal with. I have seen bids going up to 70 connects by some freelancers and really to compete with them on bidding, one needs to have considerable investment into connects.

The system however with fair competition should be that if you are a top-rated or top-rated plus freelancer, then, yes you can bid with such high connects, not for the freelancers who are not.

Also if anybody is allowed to bid with a large number of connects, then at least in such a scenario, the top-rated freelancer's bids should superceed the bids which are submitting by the freelancers who are not top-rated.

It takes a lot of struggle and effort to become a top-rated freelancer but then if we are going to put forward to compete based on the connections, that is just simply unfair to us.

I hope Upwork management puts some thought into this to have this platform fair for all.

[crart]

I remember those days where what was crucial was professionalism, skill, experience and ability to communicate like a human being. Today we see Upwork turned entirely into bidding war where who screams the most - and spends the most to feed their greed - is seen. Are they relevant? 99.9% not but that's overall how society works these days: be idiot, open your mouth before the other does, halt your brain from working, and spend cash everywhere. That's how today "professionals" and "experts" are produced. This system is bound to collapse, both in society and here on UW.

[wlyonsatl]

One solution would be for Upwork to charge most of its fees on freelancers based on revenue freelancers generate from their work on behalf of their clients rather than charging freelancers millions of more dollars a year just to have a chance to try to win new work.

When Upwork lowered its minimum project-based fees to a flat 10% many small project freelancers probably rejoiced, not realizing Upwork would more than make up for the loss of some of this fee income by charging a significantly higher fee for freelancers to just submit a proposal for new work.

Obviously, Upwork management did the math (which no outsider can do) that this "what the left hand giveth the right hand (more than) taketh away" approach was key to why these changes were made.

Upwork has publicly stated that for the first half of 2023 "...the dollar volume of projects (GSV) did not grow year on year, but Upwork's revenue was up 11 percent because the reduction in freelancer fees due to the flat 10% rate was more than offset by the increase in connects income and other factors."

Upwork's growth in project volume and new client count was a paltry 2% during the first six months of 2023. (By contrast, Upwork's revenue increased 11 percent during the same period.) If this growth rate in project volume and new client count doesn't improve, and soon, all freelancers should be prepared for paying even higher fees just to submit proposals, as well as on revenue generated from successful proposals.

Upwork's most recent quarterly filing with the US government reflected a $31 million loss from operations for the first six months of 2023 ($62 million annualized) and insiders have been selling shares (which could be for a variety of reasons). The company had $154 million in Cash and Cash Equivalents, so another 2.5 years of similar losses will drain that cash balance. 

Upwork's management faces a continued uphill battle for eventually reporting sustainable operating profits and cash flow to their shareholders. I wish them well!