UpWork's Connects Bidding System is terrible

[stevenvitte12]

I discussed this with other freelancers in another forum topic, but I wanted to start my own thread about this issue that has developed on UpWork. 

This is my honest opinion on UpWork's Connects System of bidding on jobs. It's absolutely terrible. It clearly wasn't well thought out at all when it was implemented. 

You may have read comments from other freelancers about how "bidding wars" have developed where the amount of Connects submitted goes up to astronomical levels. This Connects System of bidding is simply not sustainable for the long-term. It's a system that is already being abused by many freelancers who are simply not qualified for the jobs they are applying for, and in some cases, these same unqualified freelancers will get hired just because they submitted the most Connects out of anyone else. This doesn't happen all the time, but don't tell me this never happens either.

UpWork has allowed this Connects Bidding System to become a casino game of sorts where you have to do the following:

1. Buy X amount of Connects for considerable amounts of $ to even get the opportunity to bid on jobs.
2. Submit your proposals to potential clients with huge amounts of Connects in your bid.
3. (Likely outcome these days) You either a) get outbid by someone who is nowhere near as qualified as you for the job, or b) you are the highest bid for the job but you still don't get the job, or c) the client abruptly closes the job so that no one gets it and you have to start all over again.
4. The end result of all this, whether you get a job or not, is that you end up paying UpWork money. That's basically at the heart of all this. UpWork makes money off the hard work you put in to even participate in their system, to work on jobs, and make money for your own bank account. (Lest we forget you have to pay UpWork % fees and state tax fees as well?)

It's easy for some freelancers who have deep enough bank accounts to simply buy as many Connects as they want and use them to bid on jobs, but ultimately what UpWork has done is promote bad behaviors while doing so. In other words, this Connects Bidding System is sending all the wrong messages to people. For someone who doesn't have a deep enough bank account and lives well below the poverty line (myself), long-term it is unaffordable to keep playing this casino game and "hope" that things turn around, especially if you have so many clients out there who refuse to verify their UpWork Payment methods, or worse, you bump into a scammer.

I have been working here since late 2014, back when we still had Elance and oDesk as separate entities. At least with those platforms back then, they knew what they were doing. They had sturdy business models in place that worked, and they had systems in place where it was fair for freelancers to have a chance to apply for any jobs they wanted. Here with UpWork in 2023, you simply don't get that.

This current Connects Bidding System is a complete joke, and long-term I will not be supporting this anymore. Come 2024, if significant changes are not made to this, such as getting rid of the Connects altogether, then I will be announcing my "retirement" from the UpWork platform and move to another freelancing platform where I will have more freedom to apply for jobs... and without having to waste $20-$100+ on Connects. I would rather work on other platforms, or simply go "lone wolf independent" and get jobs my own creative way than to blow money on a system that doesn't guarantee me any jobs. It's what becomes the definition of insanity. Continuously doing something the same way and expecting a different result.

If UpWork wants to make more money, then surely there are other ways for this organization to do so, which shouldn't involve having to beg us to buy Connects. To say that I have been discouraged by UpWork in these last 2 years alone would be a huge understatement. Productivity on UpWork has gone way down, and I know that's not a coincidence. 

In closing, because I don't want this being long-winded, there is only one way for UpWork to go if they don't make any changes to this Connects Bidding System. Down. I don't just mean down, but I mean rock bottom downhill. I have a theory that UpWork as an organization is losing money left and right, which partially explains why they have this Connects System in place. If freelancers like me who have had 9 years of active experience using your platform are now unsatisfied with it, then you know something is wrong. I don't want to read replies that say "What are you talking about? This Connects System is fine!" because it's obvious you don't understand what is at the heart of this issue. Do you enjoy paying so much money to even bid on a job? Pure insanity that must stop soon.

[marjan22]

William,

Its wrong becuse Upwork is now a Casino model not quality freelance service.

Expensive connects benefits only Upwork and destroying the system, becuse Upwork
now lets more and more fake and scams jobs becuse that means profit to them.
Freelancers cant apply to jobs becuse connects are expensive, and they are getting away from platform (not to mention new freelancers that cant even start).
Clients are getting mostly freelancers that can pay, not the best freelancers.

And why do you think is this fine?

[williamtcooper]

Marjan,

What is your solution?

[marjan22]

William,

Why do you think is this fine?

[williamtcooper]

Marjan,

I have not stated it is good or bad to you.

What I stated is what is your solution?

[marjan22]

Will, 

Get there

"What is wrong with it" by itself looks like a statment that all is fine,so iam asking

Why do you think is this fine?

[tlsanders]

"What is wrong with it?" is a question. Statements do not end with question marks. Asking for clarification about what your particular issue with the system is does not in any way convey approval of the system. It's like you said, "I hate this dress!" and your sister said "What don't you like about it?" She's not saying she loves the dress--she's asking you to elaborate. 

It's beginning to look like you can't.

[marjan22]

I did elaborate, read it, and 
Thank you Tifany for your wisdom that you are sharing in the comunity, where will us be, if werent people like you ?

[tlsanders]

People like you would be exactly where they are no without people like me, except perhaps a bit less hostile. People who choose to listen to experienced, successful freelancers and consider what they say and make changes would be making less money without us. 

Was the little "casino" rant your elaboration?

It's only a casino if you have nothing of value to offer. 

If freelancers can't afford to apply to jobs because of connects, they are not freelancers who are landing good-paying work here and paying Upwork significant fees. If Upwork can't get money out of them one way or the other (connects or fees on contracts that have some value), why would Upwork want to keep them here?

I understand that it's an awful situation for people who could really use $4.50 and can't bid on a $5 job because it costs $2.40 to send a proposal. But, what would your solution be? Upwork is a business--it can't subsidize millions of people who aren't making money.

[marjan22]

This Connects System is not fine!

[tlsanders]

Your cut and paste skills are excellent. 

Why do you feel that Upwork should be spending money on infrastructure and marketing to bring in clients and then giving their services away for free to the millions of freelancers who never pay fees on jobs?

[marjan22]

Your replies on every post outhere is truly concerning.

And who said that we werent paying before this madness? 
And why do you think we should pay more for nothing in return? Oh i forgot, now you gain tons of fake jobs so they can make more money of freelencers.

Upwork is now Casino were you can spend hundreds of dollars applying and gain nothing in return.

This Connects System is not fine!

[the-right-writer]

Since you keep repeating yourself, as William asked you, what are your solutions?

How do you expect the Upwork platform to function? Why do you think you should get access to jobs you wouldn't have otherwise, and you want it for free?

Upwork is only a gamble for those who do not have marketable skills and/or do not accept responsibility for being self-employed.

[marjan22]

This community is full od ideas by freelancers to make Upwork better and safer place if somebody want to make it happen, there is tons of good ideas, and we all know that you and mr idea of expensive connects  have read it all, and confront them  probably,  so no need to repet it again just for somebody pleasure, that doesnt want to answer simple question.

Again with free connects, what is it with free connects thing, nobody asked for free, we were paying good sum, before they were expensive so stop saying free.

No, Upwork is a Casino for everybody, for those with skills and knowledge, and for those without, since you can aply to 100 jobs and get hired for 0 jobs. 

This Connects System is not fine!

[yofazza]

I'm one person who agrees that it's like a casino, given how "random" it is that my proposals can even just be viewed.

But these two points:

• Upwork hasn't made a profit since before they are even 'created'.
• They have the right to change that.

...  are making me able to understand. I'd just make sure I don't fall into the game because I'm not a casino-person (where I'm sure some good freelancers are currently having no problem in gambling or spending lots of connects, for larger returns).

[williamtcooper]

Radia,

Upwork just made a profit in the second quarter of 2023.

[marjan22]

Upwork made 17 milion profit in first quarter and lost -4 milions in 2nd quarter.

[williamtcooper]

Reread.

[marjan22]

You do that and if you cant find financial result let me know i will help you.

[the-right-writer]

Oh, well, I am impressed. Of course, they made a profit, but they aren't telling where it came from. Those connects from desperate people add up.

Make money but destroy the platform. Yes, so much to be proud of. More scammers than real clients, ... oh, so much. Upwork's reputation is shot. So, people can find shoddy work, I don't think you spend much time doing anything but listening to the cheerleaders.

I will talk to you at the end of the year, when Upwork again, is bleeding out.

It is hysterical, that you believe one quarter of billions (literally) connects is going to save this platform that is going down the drain.

Even if they started to make money, I do not work with platforms or clients that are embarrassing and acting unethically. I have to look at my reputation. I have clients now asking, "You don't work on that Upwork place, do you?" Then I have to explain that yes, but I am aware of this crap reputation, and that I only work with previous clients or real clients.

Oh, I don't mean it will close, it has been running on empty for years. The difference was real clients and freelancers work here.5vvrrrrr

[tlsanders]

I don't think they're interested in freelancers anymore. I expect within the next 18-24 months they will be rolling in money providing many tens of thousands of low-skilled workers to call centers and the like, with no place at all for highly skilled freelancers or clients who need an expert for a shorter-term project. 

[tlsanders]

I believe that was Radia's point. 

[ajay_0618]

Whch shows the connects system and casino benefits only them!

[yofazza]

I don't intend to talk about detailed data. Here I found a quick overview of their annual net loss on 2022-2019.

The point of my post above is, they're not running very well, and they have the right to try to change that, and we should think about our position and/or what we should do. Telling them to change things to our liking is not something they will consider. They have a different perspective from what freelancers see.

We don't know their making a profit in a quarter will actually be good or not, I don't want to think about it as I'm not them. I'll leave them the headaches, where again I tell you "the freelancers' well-being" is not in the equation.

[williamtcooper]

It's 2023 not 2019 to 2022.

Actually Upwork is turning the ship this year and moving in the right direction for profitability.

Freelancers that have in-demand Skills are not having a difficult time obtaining new Jobs on Upwork. I have in-demand artificial intelligence Skills and have already obtained 25 new Consultations / Projects in the month of August.

[yofazza]

Freelancers that have in-demand Skills are not having a difficult time obtaining new Jobs on Upwork. I have in-demand artificial intelligence Skills

I think you're a good marketer in the right market. You also seem to know how to "deal" with reviews when you can call a client twice a day asking for 5 stars review.

I have no problem though, people have places where they can succeed. But you're very different with me, I never ask a client to even close the project for example.

And the 2023 annual report isn't available yet, of course. While I've heard information that they've made a net profit in some quarters, as a commoner, I prefer to observe rather than being "extra supportive". We don't know yet if what they've been doing in the past ~2 years has truly contributed to the net profit, let alone for the long term.

[tlsanders]

You also seem to know how to "deal" with reviews when you can call a client twice a day asking for 5 stars review.

I super hope this is conjecture. If a freelancer called me twice and asked for a 5-star rating I would either give them a much lower rating than I'd planned or give them the 5 stars and add a comment letting other clients know they shouldn't rely on it as I'd only given the rating to stop the harassing phone calls. 

[yofazza]

You may do things differently with other clients. I for one has written that I always give full-stars unless the service is extremely bad, dangerous, harmful, etc., and I'm quite certain there's quite a lot of people like me.

If I hire a marketer then I'm paying for the job. I'd love to pay for the result but I don't think this is common and maybe 'unethical'. If the person asks for 5-stars, it's normal IMO. They're most likely nice people as well, which will affect the decision. If the service doesn't do any good to my business, I'll take my lesson (and most likely there's no longer any way to provide feedback at this point).

The part that you hoped is a conjecture, made public by a client with views similar to yours.

[tlsanders]

There are a lot of people like you. It's a terrible disservice to talented, conscientous freelancers, since you insure that their profiles look identical to the ones of freelancers whose only achievement is managing not to burn your house down. As a freelancer, I want my excellent performance to be reflected differently than the performance of someone who barely completed the task in a mediocre manner, and as a client I want to be able to tell whether the freelancer will do a great job or something I'll have to spend a huge amount of time fixing. I definitely don't want to hire someone incompetent because another client thought they were "nice." And I wouldn't want any client giving me a fake, dishonest rating just because they got along with me. 

Beyond that, dishonesty in any form really bothers me. 

But, this is about something entirely different. If a freelancer tells me what number of stars I should give them, I lose all respect for and faith in them. I understand that there's a high likelihood that their profile reviews are inaccurate, and that they are NOT asking me to review them honestly. That's someone I would definitely never work with again, and the lack of professionalism would make me want to warn other clients. 

[masiddique]

That's great Will! I'm happy to see freelancers like you flourshing and making good earnings here.

I'm struggling though, as my skills are more in a niche area, and perhaps Upwork doesn't have many clients looking for those skills. I feel stuck between a rock and a hard place – "giving up my skillset in favor of developing a newer skill set more tuned to curernt market needs" does sound like I wasted my previous years. 

Yeah, life is challenging, but there won't be any fun without the challenge! So I'm up for it! I'm setting more catalogue entries now, working out some material to show in portfolio, etc: Trying to market myself better, and in that contet, if you have any advice, I'll be happy to take it.

I do feel that this "Connects" system is somewhat arbitrary, and of course costly for a newcomer, who actually has to invest in Upwork to be able to use it's services, and still return 10% of each earning. My solution would be that for newcomers (let's say those who earnings have not reached 1K) are returned 50% of their connects on job proposals that failed. I would still say that the Connects System must not go away entirely, because it's a bullwark against rampant and random proposals! I mean, thinking from a client's perspective, a client would hate to have hundreds of proposals most of which are written in a half-hearted or shabby way. It will drive the clients away at the end, and freelancers cannot afford that if one thinks a bit more deeply. Upwork is a market, and a market must have both happy sellers & happy buyers to thrive!

I wish myself good luck 🙂

Cheers
Adnan

[williamtcooper]

Muhammad,

You will not be wasting time by learning new in-demand Skills because the learning done to this point in your life has prepared you for the new learning.

I spend about two hours a days upskilling (learning) new artificial intelligence skills in addition to freelancing. Using YouTube, articles, and Coursera for AI certificates and Wharton. There truly is no easy way out other than hard work and determination.

Consider Upskilling and you will move ahead because you already have the "right" technical background.

[the-right-writer]

I’m sorry, but there are highly skilled freelancers who can’t find decent work here, and I am one of them. Yes, William, please do tell me I need to get more skills, devote my life to AI etc. Wrong. This freelancer, along with many others, has exemplary skills that are the top of the line, testimonials out the ears, and again, top-notch skills. There are no real jobs here for many of us here.

How do I know I don’t need ChatGPT and that crap? Because in the real world, and on the decent platforms, with rules, skills tests, and rules enforcement – everything is great! It’s a pleasure to have clients be nice, appreciate your work, and pay without ridiculous “security” holds that only gain interest for Upwork.

I couldn’t care less, and I’m not the only one, how many jobs you get. I’m not in your field, and I do not want to be, and would get a job with an employer if forced to do what you do. I’m not interested in advertising. So, I don’t care if you are pulling millions of dollars out of your ears, I don’t want to be you, I don’t want to do what you do, and couldn’t care less about your litany of jobs and money.

Nice to know that you are doing so well here, but you look like an ass when you try to say all you need to do is have skills or the inevitable AI skills. Wake up and look at reality. Oh, but you won’t, because Upwork might not like it if you weren’t an ardent defender where the platform is perfect, everyone with skills can make millions and millions and millions like you have.

Look outside your tiny little world. Upwork has made decisions that have and are hurting clients and freelancers. You like the way it’s working for you, fine. But stop telling people only you have the way. Skills are not enough to make it here and you know it.

Tell you what. I will send you my information, and not what is on my profile. I have removed most of my profile because I am tired of seeing it on other freelancer profiles. Then you can go through all the jobs, and find a nice, good paying job for me. I will wait.

There are no jobs to apply for. Maybe for you, but as I said, I don't want to do anything you do.

So, get off your high horse and recognize the realty. Look outside your narrow, tiny vision and look at the freelancers who are suffering. I know, you don't care.

[tlsanders]

You talk a lot about how many jobs you're getting, but how many are actual jobs and how many are one-hour consultations? Looking through the first few pages of your profile, it looks like about 90% are one-off consultations. Is your business model focused on one-hour consultations, or are those consultations intended to covert to longer term work?

[ajay_0618]

How many people outbid you!

[marjan22]

Hi Radia 

Here are quarter financial results of 2023

Quarter  1

FINAL: Q1'23 Upwork Shareholder Letter 

Quarter  2

Q2'23 Upwork Shareholder Letter

Here are all quarters from 21 

[yofazza]

Well I see... I don't like talking about details but I think, since this happened multiple times already, I really need to say that William often tell people to read while actually... 😁

And since I know people who contradict William are prone to being banned for argumentum ad hominem, I'll say to the mods beforehand to please look at the source of the problem.

[tlsanders]

But clients CHOOSE which proposals they open--whether or not they open the proposal isn't based on chance.

[yofazza]

Even the proposal snippet will be seen only after it's time for me to get another chance for a view. So client can't choose to open my proposal, until it's my turn to get another chance for a view.

It's how I feel. I do realize some other people's experience are different.

[tlsanders]

I don't know what you mean by "after it's time for me to get another chance for a view." A client can easily scroll through the list of proposals and see basic information about the freelancer in addition to those first two lines. While most clients don't open all proposals, it makes no sense to assume they don't take the two minutes to scroll through the list and see which ones appear worth opening.

[feed_my_eyes]

---

Marjan K wrote:

This community is full od ideas by freelancers to make Upwork better and safer place if somebody want to make it happen, there is tons of good ideas

---

Sorry, but "making Upwork a better and safer place" is not the same thing as making Upwork a more profitable place. Nearly all of the ideas that I've seen from freelancers would cost Upwork more money as well as drive clients away. What is your solution for the millions of freelancers on Upwork who use up resources and contribute little or nothing in commission fees? If the majority of your clients weren't paying you enough money to cover your expenses, wouldn't you have to raise your prices?

[marjan22]

Yeah, i was wondering why dont you reply,almost  everybody else from the defence team went thru.

If you didnt saw the ideas than you should go look for the ideas again. 

All the best