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Jade's avatar
Jade M Community Member

Upwork - Job Success Thread **title edited**

I want Community Forum Moderators to add to this thread, and really listen to what is going on.

 

I, like many others am sure have the same story.

 

I used to love Odesk, and got many job interviews each week. I had all 5 star feedback, and glowing written references from my clients. Then Odesk made alot of changes and introduced Job Success rate. I was shocked that mine was 67%. That was until I looked at other discussions and heard of other people who had five star feedback, lots of good references and yet had a very low job success rate.

 

This system is beyond unfair as

!)Upwork introduced new changes and a new feedback system. They should NOT include information that people believed was being entered anonymously, prior to the changes. The Job success rate includes information that clients did not think would be shown publicly. They left star feedback that would be shown publicly. You CANNOt use retroactive data for a new system.

2)Since the Job success rate has been started, I am now not getting invited to interview for ANY jobs, so how could I get my Job success rate, even if I tried?

 

You have made a very bad error with this.

 

Can every freelancer on this forum who wants to get rid of the job success rate feature, reply with 'Get rid', and lets see if they listen to us.

1,457 REPLIES 1,457
Sandra's avatar
Sandra T Community Member

Hey Nasir,

 

the recommendation percentage on the "My Stats" page isn't updated every other Sunday like JSS, but with the closing of every 4th (or 5th) contract. Upwork's explanation for this is that due to the somewhat random update, freelancers can't really figure out which particular client might have given them a low score on the recommendation scale.

 

Hope that helps (a bit :))

Dona's avatar
Dona A Community Member

Hi, guys.

Can somebody help me with an explanation about what is happening with my job succes score, cause I really don„t get it.

So, I got my job succes score about a mont ago and it was at 75%. Why 75% when I have only 5 star client stars. Is it because I only had 4 jobs?

And yestarday my job succes score updated and now its at 70%. But in betewwen those 2 weeks I received another 5 star from a client, a client that i continue to work with ( maybe if it was a client with an ending contract I would say that it is about that secret review that clients can do, but this isn t the case).

I really do non understand what in the world is happening. If you have the time to take a loom at my profile to see if there is something that woul point to this job succes, please guys, do it an help me understand!

 

 

Thanks.

John's avatar
John K Community Member

There was one job where feedback was not given. You should ask the client to leave feedback, Then there's a job listed as 'in progress', but you were already paid, so you should remind the client to close the contract and leave feedback, In general, jobs with no feedback are not good for Job Success.

__________________________________________________
"No good deed goes unpunished." -- Clare Boothe Luce
Ashish's avatar
Ashish K Community Member

Hi Donna,

 

My guess is that the 1/4 jobs which have no feedback affected your score. 3/4 makes 75%. It could also be that the 3 clients gave lower private feebacks.

 

Please dont take this analysis at face value, the exact formula is not known. But this makes most sense to me. As you get more jobs with full ratings (public and private), your JSS should improve.

Amir's avatar
Amir B Community Member

Hello everyone!

 

This is my first time I am asking for help here. I think that there are many of us who can face the same situation as me or maybe already faced. The thing is that my JSS dropped significantly from 98 to 83% and did not change after the update last Sunday. 

 

I left an agency I worked for about 3 weeks ago. As I know it automatically reduces my score by 15%, does not it? By that time my JSS was 98%. Thus my score became 83%. But I was told that as I did a project and got a feedback from a client, my score must have been changed on Sunday, 17. Today, 18, my score is still 83%. I do not understand how it can be so low and what could cause such a significant drop.  

 

I have sent a few requests to Upwork help center to find out why my JSS is just 83%. The guys from help center tried to help me but they did not really do that. One of them sent me a screenshot (attached below) which shows that my JSS is 88% instead of 83% but I see a different thing. I have 2 open requests right now. My problem was promised to be taken into consideration and solved. I can not get jobes right now as my JSS is too low and it does not reflect my real level, skills, rating, and customer satisfaction! So, if you already had the same issue, could you kindly tell me the reason of such a case and how did you solve it? It would be very nice on you guys! Thank you all in advance! Sorry for such a large text - I just wanted to describe the case thoroughly. I am looking forward to hearing from you.

 

With regards,
Amir

Alexandru's avatar
Alexandru S Community Member

Hello, Upwork community ! 

 

I am posting this message in the hope of getting a straight answer and hopefully reach out to the community and staff. It's about the most debated topic the Job Success Score and also a bit about the whole Upwork system.

 

Let me start off by just saying I approve of Upwork's attempt of developing a more evolded, complex feedback calculation system. I do not approve of the result though. It's to my understanding that feedback-less contracts will negatively impact the JSS as long as it's a pattern. That is my main concern here. 

 

So far, my JSS is 95 %, a feedback score of 4.99 and I am a Top Rated freelancer. I have 23 total contracts from which 5 are feedback-less. All seems relatively ok so far. The operative word here being "relatively". Two weeks ago when my JSS was last calculated it was 96% and in the meantime I ended three contracts from which two ended in a maximum feedback (one was even a long term contract) and on one of them I did not receive a feedback from my client - this contract was without activity, 0 hours, 0 money because my client set up the wrong type of contract and ended up just sending me a bonus; apparently now contracts with 0 activity are able to influence your JSS. After two weeks my JSS was recalculated and dropped to a 95%. After two contracts with maximum feedback and one feedback-less contract it dropped by 1%. 

 

Does this mean that a feedback-less contract is worth more than two maximum feedback contracts, one of which was a long term one ? That is not legitimate. Following this logic, even if I have perfect contracts in the future, 5-6 more feedback-less contracts will render my profile no longer eligible for Top Rated. 

 

Now I am sure that the staff might come up with a complicated response to this that disproves my theory, conveniently hiding behind a complex and undisclosed JSS calculation.  And in fact, I do hope that I'm wrong and this will not happen.

 

 

I haven't been freelancing for a long time, however so far I've come across different types of clients. There are the clients who are involved, responsive and contribute to the community by having exemplary contracts with descriptive feedback. And there are clients who are unfamiliar with the platform, they've come here do get their job done, pay for it and then they just dissapear. I am not saying it's entirely their fault. But I've had to instruct clients on how to set up a contract, instruct them to verify their method of payment, urge them to leave a feedback once the project is completed. Where is Upwork's assistance to new clients who are unfamiliar with the platform ? I've seen staff inviting people to interview on behalf of the client which is good. But that happened once. Upwork should instruct and assist new clients, it should be their responsability.

 

Upwork should do more and be more than just a job section in a newspaper. Us freelancers are left to deal with unexperienced clients (with the platform that is), do the job correctly, leave a feedback for the client in order to help our fellow freelancers know more about that client and end up with the money and no feedback. And we're still the ones punished for this. These are rock solid, real arguments. These are clients who are very busy, sign up, find the freelancer, send the files & instructions, receive the files and then they are gone. These are clients who do not understand the importance of the feedback in regards to the freelancers. Let's be honest, there are a lot of people in the business world that do not care beyond completing their project. That is if they even know to begin with that there is a complex, undisclosed feedback system in place. Upwork does not have first hand experience with a client from a freelancer's point of view. That's why I'm giving you one. And I do hope someone takes it into consideration.

 

Now, circling back to my question, one pertaining to the big picture of the new and "improved" JSS, why should a contract without feedback from the client affect the freelancer ? I want and need to understand the logic behind that decision. 

 

There were probably freelancers that avoided leaving a feedback on a contract or did not end it just because they were afraid of a bad feedback from the client that could've affected their score. And I think this was the reasoning behing creating a JSS, where feedback-less contracts and no activity contracts would affect the freelancer. However, why not penalize only the freelancers that have contracts with no activity or that have been ended and the freelancer did not want to leave a feedback ? I mean, score us for our actions, not for our clients' lack of actions. Why am I, a freelancer who did his job, completed the project, ended it and left feedback for his client, punished just because the client did not leave a feedback ? And yes, the client has 14 days to leave a feedback. Truthfully, no client that has been unresponsive for more than a week will return to leave a feedback. From my, now feedback-less contracts do you want to know how many clients left a feedback in 14 days ? None. These clients exist. And they're very diversified.

 

For example I have a client whom I've been messaging constantly for two months now begging for a feedback. The client responded from time to time, telling me she does not know how to leave a feedback even though I've told her numerous times where to do that. So there are also semi-responsive clients who do not leave a feedback. Why ? I do not know. I cannot know. I can only assume all the clients that do not leave a feedback do that from LACK OF INTEREST. No client will ever disregard leaving a feedback if they were not happy with the work or the relationship with the freelancer. So why should that count towards the JSS ? Where is the logic there ? In my opinion this is abusive towards the freelancer. Even if it constitutes a pattern. Because it does NOT reflect the freelancers' skills or behaviour towards clients. It's the client's duty to leave feedbacj on a contract. A client not leaving feedback should count towards the client's feedback score and that alone. I, as a freelancer who is considering working for a new client, would care to see if that client shows any interest in freelancers' feedback. That is a clear indication of the client's behaviour and his acknowledgement towards the impact that he has on a freelancer's score and also on sustaining a community based on integrity. 

 

You wanted to create a scoring system that cannot be fooled, however ended up creating one that is almost completely out of he freelancer's control. And not in a good way. You're right, it cannot be fooled or manipulated in the freelancer's best interest because it's already working against the freelancer. 

 

Truth is, there are a LOT of clients that just become unresponsive and cut off all ties to the website because of various reasons. And that will just happen because there already is a pattern of unresponsive clients. So yes, of course there will be a pattern of feedback-less contracts. The JSS page states that "difficult clients don't count againts you". Why don't clients who become unresponsive or do not leave feedback fall under this category ? Instead of screening the clients more carefully, instructing them about the system or developing a more fair, logical JSS calculation Upwork decides to punish the freelancer for the clients' behaviour. 

 

On another topic I see Upwork's interface is constanly being changed, adding new features and rethinking the design. You keep improving and fixing things that are not broken, always adding new stuff. Sure, it all looks pretty and clean, but you completely disregard the main interface full of bugs, long loading times, critical errors and random down-times that have been here from the start. And this has been a thing people have always complained about, Upwork staff. Good to know how well you acknowledge your community's feedback, no wonder you have a faulty feedback set in place for the freelancers also. 

 

The customer service has always been responsive and helpful, but why have a good customer service in place that constantly deals with the same problems and new ones that appear because of the unfixed old ones ? Why not work towards an improved system by being open to your community's suggestions and requests ? You should be working to accomodate the clients' and freelancers' needs, not solely towards profit.

 

Gabriela's avatar
Gabriela L Community Member

Hi! I haven't been on Upwork for almost a week because of a trip, and when I came back, my job success rate dropped from 100% to 93, without any reason. I have successfully completed all my jobs and all my reviews are with 5 stars, and one with 4.8.

Can someone please help me? Can I contact anyone regarding this?

Muhammad Saif's avatar
Muhammad Saif U Community Member

JSS is a mystery on upwork. 

Melissa's avatar
Melissa T Community Member

The factors that go into calculating the JSS are myriad and mysterious. Nothing to be done - lots of threads on this lately. It could be that there is some feedback that isn't public that affected your JSS. Could be the weather. We truly don't know for sure. 

Daniel's avatar
Daniel M Community Member


@Valeria K wrote:

Hi Daniel,

 

Unfortunately, we ran into some issues with excluding that job from the score and are working to make sure it's done soon. I will continue checking on it. 

 

Sorry about the delay.


 Hi Valeria, isn't there any solution yet?

Sonja's avatar
Sonja S Community Member

Hi,

I have worked on more then 40 jobs, all of my contracts have feedback, I have 5.00 score and long term clients (even though it says I have 0% long term clients), I always reply on messages and my Job success score is 88%. How is that possible and what can I do to improve that?

Kind regards,
Sonja

Taimoor's avatar
Taimoor K Community Member

Upwork has feature of private feedback for both client and contractor, which does not become visible to either. So maybe some client left unfavorable private feedback for you. Or, did you have some uncompleted or canceled contracts? Again, private feedback can be given for such contracts and the client is likely to give a bad score and this reflects in the job success score. 


Job Success Score seems to be dictated by private feedback IMO. 

Sonja's avatar
Sonja S Community Member

I have had only one client over the year, and he was very satisfied with my work. I do not have canceled contracts, but I do have 2 that I'm curently working on. Does that cound as an unfinished contracts?

Ruben's avatar
Ruben V Community Member

Hi folks,

 

I've experienced really frustrating JSS loss recently.

Customer support couldn't provide the explanations on the issue. That's why I am posting here in the belieft that community gurus will offer better help.

 

Jan-Feb : Completed 3 Jobs, no JSS
Mar 18th : Ended 2 more jobs (1 fixed, 1 hourly)
Mar 21 : Got JSS - 94%
Apr 4: JSS - 94%
Apr 17: JSS - 77% (???)

During the period : Mar31 - Apr 17, I have not ended a job, so I believe JSS should stay same.

 

Has anyone experienced similar issue with his/her JSS ?

There are some factors we don't know that participate into JSS calculation?


Let's talk about this.

 

Melissa's avatar
Melissa T Community Member

Hi Ruben - If you search the boards you'll find several threads about the JSS. The "secret sauce" that Upwork uses to determine the JSS is a mystery. They keep certain pieces of info used to calculate JSS in the dark on purpose. Unfortunately, there is no definite answer for you, only speculation. 

Ruben's avatar
Ruben V Community Member

Thanks Melissa for your message,

 

However, my point here was not the calculation itself, its the sudden drop without job related activities.

As you already noticed, I joined upwork only from Jan.


Is this something you can explain ?

 

 

Nichola's avatar
Nichola L Community Member

It certainly seems a mystery in your case. A while ago there was a bug in the system that was causing massive drops. But someone recently was assured by a mod that this was no longer the case.

 

We all live in dread of the 'drop'. I dropped a couple of points from 100% to 98% as soon as I became top-rated. Well I will never figure that one out!

 

We can all only sympathise with each other and keep going. I think the best thing to do is to not ever look at one's stats. They are demeaning, stress-making and I don't think add to value one bit.

Melissa's avatar
Melissa T Community Member


@Ruben V wrote:

Thanks Melissa for your message,

 

However, my point here was not the calculation itself, its the sudden drop without job related activities.

As you already noticed, I joined upwork only from Jan.


Is this something you can explain ?

 

 


No - because it's a mystery. For real. As in, they don't tell us what goes into the score and many people have seen seemingly inexplicable fluxuations in their JSS. I can't explain it because they don't expain it to us.  

Carl 'Jake''s avatar
Carl 'Jake' J Community Member

I'm having an issue with the "Success" rating for Freelancers.  I had a 100% job success rating as of March 15, 2016.  The rating was obviously all 100% reviews on 27 jobs and 607 hours worked.  I've only been on UpWork for 16 months.  Suddenly, my scored dropped to 92%.  I've only had two contract that ending since February 2016 and received no public feedback on those jobs (I highly doubt I received negative private feedback either).  Upwork hasn't provided my any details on why my score dropped other than the vague "we use public and private feedback".  Mathematically, it's impossible that my score would drop 8% points even IF these two contracts that have closed since February had bad private feedback.

 

Is there someone higher up the chain that can help me out?  The support center gives me the same response each time.  This is going to affect my ability to obtain more projects.

 

Frustrated!

Jake

Melissa's avatar
Melissa T Community Member

Join the club. A gazillion posts about similar dissatisfaction here.

Preston's avatar
Preston H Community Member

Carl-Jake:

I can assure you that no-feedback contracts can count against your Job Success Score.

Carl 'Jake''s avatar
Carl 'Jake' J Community Member

Preston, 

I want to make sure I understand your reply....are you saying that if a client provides NO response at all that it will count against me?

Thanks,

Jake

Lisa's avatar
Lisa W Community Member

Is it possible that some of your good contracts dropped out of the JSS 'window?' I don't know exactly what the time frame is supposed to be, but when I questioned a drop in my JSS last week I was told that it could be that some of my good contracts fell out of the calculation window. They later said that was not the issue since I've only been here 6 months, but could it be an issue for you? They are so mysterious about the whole thing, who really knows. It's very frustrating.

Carl 'Jake''s avatar
Carl 'Jake' J Community Member

The emails they send me say the window is 24 months and I've been on Upwork less than that.

Preston's avatar
Preston H Community Member

re: "I want to make sure I understand your reply....are you saying that if a client provides NO response at all that it will count against me?"

 

Yes.

 

Upwork has been very public about the fact that they REALLY DON'T LIKE to see no-feedback contracts. They associate a lack of feedback with negative client outcomes. I think they weigh no-feedback contracts pretty heavily in terms of penalties applied to the Job Success Score.

 

In the Upwork article titled "My Job Success Score," Upwork tells us:

 

"Missing feedback is only flagged when it represents a significant portion of your contracts."

 

So if you have lots of feedback from lots of jobs, and only one or two zero-feedback contracts, your score won't be affected at all. But what if you have only a small number of contracts? Any zero-feedback contracts will constitute a significant portion of your contracts.

 

And what if two doesn't matter, but three zero-feedback contracts DO matter?

 

We don't know the exact calculation, and it is Upwork's stated policy to not tell us.

 

So that's why most contractors who have studied the Job Success Score do whatever they can to avoid having zero-feedback contracts. Never know when they'll kick in and bite you!

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