Upwork becoming a Casino that drains our resources in exchange for very rare interviews?

[saidjarrin]

Over 8 years on this platform, and I'm losing money in 2023 and 2024 with Connects and Boosts. Constantly, another experienced freelancer shares the same story  - a major downturn in 2024. Upwork is becoming a casino that drains our resources for a next to no chance of finding good clients.

The return on investment for Connects appears to be way lower than expected. A significant portion of job postings, exceeding 50%, do not proceed to the interview stage. This is raising serious concerns about the effectiveness of the current system in connecting freelancers with suitable projects. In my opinion, Upwork seem to care only about how much the freelancers are spending on the platform without worrying for their success at all.

Considering the current Connect system and its effectiveness in connecting freelancers with projects, Upwork should explore explore a potential refund policy for Connects used on job postings that:

• Refunding Connects for jobs that do not progress to the interview stage: This is just logical right?
• Refunding Connects for Expired Jobs: Consider implementing a system where Connects are refunded for job postings that expire without a client hiring anyone even if they interviewed freelancers. This would incentivize clients to close out projects and free up Connects for freelancers.

Maybe if enough of us speak up, Upwork will finally do something.

[rolludesig]

totally agree and i am really thinking of putting bidding to a pause...atleast they should make an option where we can clarify about the project requirements before putting a proposal and wasting connects...

[alex-nemchyn]

What's more, they stop returning ties even after they've hired you. It's happened to me twice already.
I never got my connections back after I was hired.

[bbdebb52]

Hi Said,

Thanks for sharing. I do believe it's fair to get your connects refunded if you don't proceed to the interview stage. After all, the idea of spending connects is to get a job, so if you're not even being interviewed, Upwork should consider refunding the freelancers in a similar way to the boosting system.

In my opinion, one crucial thing that is missing is the ability to chat with a client before submitting a proposal. Many times you spend connects and get invited just to discover that the client isn't a good fit. So, why not allow us to ask questions or clarify things before submitting a proposal? This will save time for both the freelancer and the client.  

[feed_my_eyes]

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 wrote:

So, why not allow us to ask questions or clarify things before submitting a proposal? This will save time for both the freelancer and the client.  

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Elance (who eventually merged with oDesk to form Upwork) trialled this for a short time, and it was a disaster. The message boards that were supposed to be used for asking questions would be filled with idiotic comments from freelancers begging clients to hire them and demanding to know why their bid hadn't been chosen. Also, I noticed that clients who didn't explain their needs in the job description were highly unlikely to answer questions anyway, and those kinds of clients were less likely to hire anyone; I therefore came to the conclusion a long time ago that it's best to ignore job posts with vague descriptions in the first place. 

[bbdebb52]

Thanks for your valuable input, Christine. I wasn't aware this had been trialled, and I'm shocked that it reached a point where some freelancers were begging for jobs. Still, there may be a way around it, and other alternatives might have worked better. I still vouch for Upwork, but I do agree with other freelancers that some areas need improvement. 

PS: The dollar to pound exchange rate is getting slightly higher! 

[feed_my_eyes]

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 wrote:

PS: The dollar to pound exchange rate is getting slightly higher! 

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I noticed! I got an extra 2p on the dollar when I made a withdrawal today. It makes a quite a difference. Drinks are on me! Although I guess it means that British economy is doing worse, so I'm always confused about whether to celebrate or not. 😉

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 wrote:

Still, there may be a way around it, and other alternatives might have worked better.

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It's not going to happen - if there was a way for freelancers to contact clients without submitting a bid, it would be massively abused. 

[lysis10]

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 wrote:

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 wrote:

So, why not allow us to ask questions or clarify things before submitting a proposal? This will save time for both the freelancer and the client.  

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Elance (who eventually merged with oDesk to form Upwork) trialled this for a short time, and it was a disaster. The message boards that were supposed to be used for asking questions would be filled with idiotic comments from freelancers begging clients to hire them and demanding to know why their bid hadn't been chosen. Also, I noticed that clients who didn't explain their needs in the job description were highly unlikely to answer questions anyway, and those kinds of clients were less likely to hire anyone; I therefore came to the conclusion a long time ago that it's best to ignore job posts with vague descriptions in the first place. 

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My absolute fave was watching freelancers accuse the others of "blackhat SEOs" and watching them argue in comments. God it was hilarious.

[renata101]

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 wrote:

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Also, I noticed that clients who didn't explain their needs in the job description were highly unlikely to answer questions anyway, and those kinds of clients were less likely to hire anyone; I therefore came to the conclusion a long time ago that it's best to ignore job posts with vague descriptions in the first place. 

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And this is exactly why you're less likely to succeed if you use a form letter in your proposals. It's okay to have a basic template, but it's always wise to tailor your response to the proposal at some level. 

[feed_my_eyes]

The biggest reason why you're getting fewer jobs is that Upwork simply has way too many freelancers, and this problem won't be solved by giving everyone more - or cheaper - connects.

[tjmisny]

I am very much on board with the overall sentiment, of Upwork becoming a rigged carnival game or an unscrupulous Casino.

However I do think Connects need to have an expense tied to them, or else the clutter problem will persist.

I think it's fine that Connects are not returned for jobs that do not progress to the interview stage.... **IF** the client hires someone.  If the client does not hire anybody, I think everyone should have their connects reimbursed.  

For example - I had a client who, in the time since posting the job, was fired from his job at a fintech company.  I was "interviewed", meaning the client reached out to me, but disappeared before the video chat meeting could be scheduled.  Turns out the reason he ghosted was beecause he was fired from his job... and the Upwork job never resulted in a hire.  Because I was "interviewed", I will not get those connects back, even though I was actually ghosted and the guy posting the job was fired.

It's absurd the number of times we pay to be ghosted, on jobs that never result in a hire!  

[bbdebb52]

Don't aggravate them with the Casino thing Thomas or someone might edit your post again for community guidelines haha 😂

I wholeheartedly agree with your comment 👍

[bobafett999]

UPwork doesn't exist for us.  We are just vehicles for them to pay themselves millions in salaries and bonuses.  They ride us and once in while some buyer comes along and throws a bone or two

.

[yofazza]

Illogical

What's illogical is when you specifically think about how to game your members for profit (by allowing everyone to join and create competition among them), but you return the connects.

When you can profit by running a business that legally tricks people, would you revert to your previous business model that only resulted in losses? Even if you suddenly have divine enlightenment and decide to stop the trickery, you'll close down your business instead of returning to the previously 'failed' one.

You need to understand this concept first, then, you can correctly decide what to do next.

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ps: clicked the wrong reply button

[48f850a0]

It'll only get worse in the next coming years, as long as new freelancers keep trooping in, connects prices will still rise and no one(very few) will be able to win jobs due to saturation. 

This however doesn't affect Upwork's business but you as a freelancer, just something to keep in mind.

Also this saturation, doesn't help prices, new freelancers would be asking for peanuts thinking they need to be cheap to start off, and Clients will take advantage of this to always set ridiculous prices... The future is quite bleak.

[bbdebb52]

With connects getting higher and freelancers charging very little, there will be no income generated. That's why I don't understand why someone would keep spending on connects if they'll be charging very little. Is there any profit in doing this? 

I'm relatively new to the platform and still learning, but some things don't add up. I also don't think the future is bleak but perhaps some people at Upwork could use the feedback to improve and refine their services. 

[48f850a0]

It doesn't add up to me as well tbh, i think that's due to country and some freelancers probably don't want to make much, they are just trying to earn low wages similar to what they make in their country. This causes some shocking prices you see on Upwork. A job that would take 20 hours and the client wants to pay 100$ .. that kind of thing.

It's a long story, the first step to fix things is to reduce the saturation, in economics or so , when the supply is much more than the demand, the price of such service will be low.. Upwork can fix the crowd, but they don't because of connects. So you just have to fight for yourself.

[khushbu_gohil]

When supply is higher they have to know how to create demand..

take a example of cloth..supply is higher but clothing industry always launch different varieties to grab eyes and repeated buyers same thing here if freelancers are more..Upwork have to shadow them creativity so client can utilise fully of talent and they can refer to other fellow too

if algorithm not work proper to match freelancer then that AI integration is not useful

Upwork share is down since they they increase in connects..it's clearly visible what's working and what not

[crart]

I noticed quite significant degradation of logic usage in humanity these last few years. Spending more to earn pennies isn't as shocking anymore, people are just dumb, as rude as it sounds, and most of new FLs here are really, really naive. Those people are precious for corpos like UW since they can be freely exploited and they're thankful they are exploited because in their ignorance they don't see they're just being abused. Modern corpos, governments operate like this and it's not even new concept.

[7966b5e7]

Thanks for sharing the information. 

[marjan22]

Upwork is Casino!
STOP BIDDING!

[9f67e94f]

Perhaps this is the case because of the oversaturation of freelancers?

[marjan22]

Hi Noel
Yes and no. Problem is much deeper then that. In short, platfrom is a mess at the moment, first for freelancers and for the clients second, from the moment that new CEO came, and it has so much issues and problems, that probably Upwork Casino will be dead very soon, if this continues.

[bbdebb52]

Her annual salary is $8.47m so I guess she won't be bidding anytime soon haha 😁

[tjmisny]

Wow, so she can afford to Boost 10 job applications 

[bbdebb52]

She can afford to boost for all Upwork users!  She also owns an 83% share of the platform and can do whatever she wants. Meet Hayden Brown! 

[marjan22]

"Lets make Hayden Brown more rich" by us the freelancers 

[bbdebb52]

What can we do about it, Marjan? It's a tough situation, you know. All that's left is more boosting and losing connects haha 😂

But having some opposition is good to balance things 😎🤞

Wishing you and the readers a lovely day! 

[marjan22]

Yeah  and she doesnt need to boost becuse she is selling her Upwork Stocks every couple of months 

[crart]

Refunding connects is not in the interest of UW. As well as giving free connects shouldn't be yet they give 50 connects to newly created FL accounts, which only encourages frauds. 10 connects in free plan is already a spit in the face considering how high are connects cost to apply. And once again I say - paying to apply for a small chance to get interview without guarantee for job is casino model, illegal in many countries.
Better solution exists but it requires a bit more from UW than what they do now (read: they do nothing) - removing connects entirely and start heavy vetting of both clients and freelancers. Trash will not go through and that way UW can actually have more revenue because if real and honest clients are connected to real and honest freelancers, their relationship has better chance to continue, bringing constant flow of projects and so bringing profit for UW. But sadly UW is not interested in quality, rather in quantity which turns aganst them all the time yet they don't have a clue why they fail. I don't understand this approach currently endorsed by UW. No matter how much naive FL's pay for connects, there is little to none profit for UW and they clearly are lost in this, not willing to take the mental effort of providing fair ways to connect users. Bizarre situation, dramatic for many.