Jun 23, 2020 11:43:16 PM by Petra R
Seems Upwork has once again changed how we are presented to clients.
Why is the hourly rate in a freelancer's work history no longer shown when clients look at it?
Is it still shown when we look at a profile with our freelancer accounts in the hope that we do not notice that this important marketing tool has been taken away?
Jun 24, 2020 08:33:28 AM by Isabelle Anne A
Christine A wrote:
Petra R wrote:I am still stunned that I was told that it isn't an issue. It's an issue to me. It really is and if I was livid before being told that it's not an issue, imagine how I feel now.
I have no trouble imagining.
Here's an idea. Instead of the stupid "plus" membership - which provides no benefits at all - why not introduce a special "opt out" membership, so that experienced freelancers can pay an extra fee to run their business as they see fit, and not participate in any more idiotic tests? I would HAPPILY pay an extra monthly fee if it meant that I don't have to log into my account each morning and wonder, "What fresh hell does Upwork have in store for me today?"
I guess it would be a nice change for once -- and Upwork is probably heading in that direction -- but at the same time, the idea of paying Upwork just to get them to stop messing with my business annoys me to no end!
Jun 24, 2020 08:40:26 AM by Jamiu I
I noticed this last week as well. I don't think it's cool because clients are not expected to have a calculator by their side to compute a freelancer's hourly rate for a particular job.
This new stuff is favourable to freelancers that charge low hourly rate but it's a big blow to freelancers charging high rate.
Jun 24, 2020 09:12:23 AM by Preston H
The idea of NOT showing the freelancer's rates strikes me as odd.
BUT: If Upwork makes more money AND I make more money that way... I would be fine with it.
Jun 24, 2020 09:15:28 AM by Jamiu I
I guess it's very unlikely that you benefit from it. However, Upwork and low priced freelancers will benefit.
Jun 24, 2020 09:16:43 AM by Preston H
Jamiu:
I agree with you that it is very unlikely that I would benefit from it.
So the "if" in my statement is a BIG "if."
Jul 2, 2020 12:09:00 PM by Oz N
First of all, I’d like to thank you for the discussion and sharing your feedback. This test is meant to collect broader data about exactly what’s being discussed on this thread. Our goal here is to understand how certain information displayed on freelancer profiles affects clients' expectations.
We think that showcasing older, lesser hourly rates for new jobs primes lower expectations for clients and put a false cap on earnings for talent. This is because we have found clients often offer new contract rates similar to what talent was earning in the past, even if the profile rate and current market rates are higher. By displaying the total amount earned vs the actual hourly rate, clients may then focus more on the profile rate or market rate when sending an offer and we could expect your earnings and offers to increase not decrease as expressed in your comments.
This test only ran for a short timeframe and has currently ended. The data presented by this test along with the feedback we collect from Community and other channels will inform our decisions going forward. Thanks, everyone we are constantly researching improvements and are very open to hear feedback on this and other areas as well.
Jul 5, 2020 04:04:22 AM by Petra R
Oz N wrote:This test only ran for a short timeframe and has currently ended.
Hi Oz, Thanks for your response, but when you say the trial has ended, are you saying that Upwork decided to make this a permanent feature? Because either this trial has been converted into a permanent situation, or the trial has not ended.
This is what it currently looks like.... And it is still "an issue"...
Jul 9, 2020 10:26:31 AM by Md. S
Jul 9, 2020 11:00:52 PM by Vladimir G
HI Md. S and Viacheslav,
Could you please send me the profiles you're looking at in a private message? The rates are displayed as expected on the clients' end and while using a client account I do see the Hourly rates in your Work History, Viacheslav.
Jul 5, 2020 04:56:16 AM by Jo D
So what is the upshot of this strange experiment?
Good freelancers should increase their hourly rates over time, and be able to motivate why (inflation, gaining expertise and new skills, etc.). This shouldn't be a problem.
As others have said in this thread, the problem with hiding historic rates benefits those freelancers who undercut themselves constantly, and harms those of us who charge (and get paid) high hourly rates. I had a potential client just this week invite me to a job and then baulk at my fees, saying 'very few clients will pay that' - erm, look at my job history and you'll see that they do. Oh wait...
Jul 5, 2020 05:04:58 AM by Petra R
Jo D wrote:I had a potential client just this week invite me to a job and then baulk at my fees, saying 'very few clients will pay that' - erm, look at my job history and you'll see that they do. Oh wait...
EXACTLY!!!
Furthermore, for years, when people asked to hide their previous earnings, Upwork told us that their experiments have shown this to be detrimental to being hired.
So has there been such a huge staff turnover that nobody remembers all the experiments that have proven that it is detrimental so they have to treat us like lab rats once again by running experiments that their own experiments have already shown to be detrimental to the better freelancers?
Jul 6, 2020 02:19:32 PM Edited Jul 6, 2020 02:20:13 PM by Zoe A
I am commenting in this thread, as it's an important one and I'd urge other freelancers to do the same.
It's not okay to hide the rates from clients, in fact it is infuriating. And to run tests (without prior warning) that WILL impact proposals for freelancers is out of order.
This benefits new freelancers or freelancers who want to charge rates that they don't deserve or have not earned. There is no security to the client and the freelancers have lost credibility earned from hard work over-time.
Coming to Upwork was one of the best decisions that I have made for my career, but it did not come easy. I worked really hard (and for little pay early doors) to get the gravitas I needed on the platform, to hit an hourly rate that was close enough to enable me to leave my full-time job. It did not come easy, but it was worth it! And I'm proud of the work I've done.
Now, I suppose you just need any number of projects ... with no real insight into the value of them.
I might add that the hours worked vs. total earned is NOT an accurate measurement of hourly rate....especially if one picks up a lot of fixed-rate projects. The entire 'test' is a farce and the lack of communications to the freelancer (who might I add pays Upwork) is disgraceful. What a way to make people feel under-valued.
Where is the motivation to keep using the platform?
Jul 6, 2020 09:55:12 PM by Steve L
Petra R wrote:
Jo D wrote:I had a potential client just this week invite me to a job and then baulk at my fees, saying 'very few clients will pay that' - erm, look at my job history and you'll see that they do. Oh wait...
EXACTLY!!!
Furthermore, for years, when people asked to hide their previous earnings, Upwork told us that their experiments have shown this to be detrimental to being hired.
So has there been such a huge staff turnover that nobody remembers all the experiments that have proven that it is detrimental so they have to treat us like lab rats once again by running experiments that their own experiments have already shown to be detrimental to the better freelancers?
This is a really good point. I have personal, non-Upwork related reasons for not wanting my income spread across the intarweb for all the world to see.
The freelance Community argued that point for years to no avail. I guess we were right the first time around. Is there a badge for that?
Jul 5, 2020 06:01:38 AM Edited Jul 5, 2020 06:05:06 AM by Douglas Michael M
Oz N wrote:
We think that showcasing older, lesser hourly rates for new jobs primes lower expectations for clients and put a false cap on earnings for talent. This is because we have found clients often offer new contract rates similar to what talent was earning in the past, even if the profile rate and current market rates are higher. By displaying the total amount earned vs the actual hourly rate, clients may then focus more on the profile rate or market rate when sending an offer and we could expect your earnings and offers to increase not decrease as expressed in your comments.
Maybe if the default view of our job histories was reverse chronological—instead of, to all appearances, random—the clients might get a quite accurate picture of our current earnings and rates without having to further interfere with our marketing. How do you imagine we clue in our often clueless clients to "market rate" except by displaying ours, as verified by our current clients?
Farmhand: We're losing a lot of chickens when they cross the road. Should I put up a fence?
Farmer: Fences are boring. Let's put up a chicken crossing with flashing lights and lowering guard rails. That should cut down on all that noisy, stinky traffic to our farm stand, too.
Jul 6, 2020 10:09:47 AM Edited Jul 6, 2020 10:16:24 AM by Petra R
Oz N wrote:This test only ran for a short timeframe and has currently ended.
It seems some clients can see the previous rates, some still can't.
Any chance of an explanation why the test that we are told has ended is still running? Did you think we're too dumb to figure it out?
And yes, it *is* still an issue for me.
Here's a test you may want to run: How about you show only hourly rates that are in line (within, say, 10%) with the current profile rate or higher? That would resolve the issues from both ends and be a win-win situation all round. And it's no more difficult to program than the allegedly ended test that is still running and is still costing me business.
I feel like I've been lied to and that is a feeling I dislike very much.
Jul 6, 2020 10:43:09 AM by Prachi T
I don't see the benefit of making this change at all. But I see a lot of disadvantages.
When a freelancer gradually increases their rates, they essentially test if there are any takers for 'them specifically' at that rate. They also test whether they are able to provide services that provide value to the clients at that rate.
Not showing the hourly rate on the profiles can prompt some to inflate their rates without testing. The clients just might take up the rate at face value and then all hell breaks loose when they don't get the value for their money.
Disputes, complaints on the forums, service tickets, and the rest.
Jul 6, 2020 01:51:51 PM by Steve L
Petra R wrote:
Oz N wrote:This test only ran for a short timeframe and has currently ended.
And yes, it *is* still an issue for me.
Upwork will let you know when you have an issue. Until then, please wait for the beep at the end of this message.
Jul 6, 2020 02:34:24 PM by Kim F
I've been thinking about this. Before, information was displayed that both clients and freelancers found useful for a variety of reasons. Annoyed at such transparency, an Upwork goblin decided that the situation needed to be made more complex and information less accessible. Secretly.
Really, what is the point? Consistently making secret twiddles to jeopardise how the system works only makes sense if there really is an evil goblin who has infiltrated the Upwork elves.
Jul 9, 2020 11:24:08 PM Edited Jul 9, 2020 11:25:44 PM by Petra R
Viacheslav K wrote:Looks like they started hidding clients paid rates too:
Significant clients have been able to hide the rates they paid / pay for years (at least 7) - A lot of Enterprise etc clients do that. Nothing new about it.
Vlad, Md S.for some obscure reason just copied and reposted my original post...
Jul 10, 2020 08:44:28 AM by Viacheslav K
Even when you got invited to the job? I guess I never had a Enterprise client before.
Jul 10, 2020 09:47:36 AM by Petra R
Viacheslav K wrote:Even when you got invited to the job? I guess I never had a Enterprise client before.
Yep. And it's not just Enterprice clients either.
User | Count |
---|---|
497 | |
359 | |
346 | |
293 | |
167 |