why upwork going worst day by day ? | payment reveresed chargeback , not secure freelancers

[#1]

Now I notice that Upwork going to worst day by day.

today I got the notification for the reverse payment and chargeback and the contract was closed prox 50days ago with 5 stars and good feedback.

1. why do we use Upwork if someone hires freelancers and reverses all payments after 1 or 2 months and repeat this loop again and again with a new account? ( so basically we will work for free? )

2 . I added all proof of work and chats but even after 6 hours no reply from the Upwork support team ( looks like it's normal for Upwork, why Upwork employee is too lazy and not guiding me on what I can do ?)

3. I notice that Upwork saying contact your client and ask for a discussion (since the client is doing scam and why Upwork is thinking he/she will come for a discussion ? ) 

4.  I notice that upwork in mention rebuttal and I don't know what is this.

5. why does upwork have 7 day processing time if anytime upwork can reverse the payment?

6. who will give compensation for my time and afford after chargeback(payment reversed )?

( upwork you are totally responsible for this you can't just run away )

*Edited for Community Guidelines**

[#2]

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you worked in a company and after two months the company say Hye I want all money back that I paid you

Yes that can happen: https://squareup.com/us/en/townsquare/what-is-a-chargeback-what-makes-it-happen

Upwork has no power. On cases like this the one at loss is usually the seller. You're the seller not Upwork.

Upwork however attempt to please "sellers" by providing payment protection  which means they will pay "the seller" with their own money in cases like this, but not without implementing a set of flexible rules.

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proper investigation

I don't know how banks do the investigations but I believe it's easy to get chargebacks on internet transactions. Card will be blocked etc. but you don't have to pay.

[#3]

Here's a quick overview of the chargeback process:

1. The buyer requests a chargeback from their credit card company.
2. The credit card company notifies our merchant bank and withdraws the funds from PayPal.
3. We place a hold on your (the seller’s) funds related to the chargeback.
4. We immediately notify you via email and request information that could help to dispute the chargeback.

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There I pasted the process.

PayPal I believe is a financial institution so it's above Upwork on financial matters but they still can't simply deny or investigate any chargebacks themselves. And they can't stop banks from taking money away.

[#4]

Radia PayPal will cover all losses whenever a chargeback request is submitted. PayPal is not the same as upwork, who runs away from its responsibility.

here you can check : https://www.paypal.com/dm/webapps/mpp/security/resolve-disputes

[#5]

It's hard to respond when you tell me to look at a page that is supposed to support your claim, but it's not 😁

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[#6]

 image 1 : PayPal wil cover all loses ( image 1)

image 2: how PayPal payment protection works

sources .

https://www.paypal.com/dm/webapps/mpp/security/resolve-disputes

https://www.paypal.com/in/webapps/mpp/paypal-seller-protection

[#7]

I agreed. Upwork is becoming Worst day by day.  The client is doing an Hourly Basis project with me regarding YouTube channels I have done his job and my work in progress showed 1400$ after that even Client accepted the job rated me 5 stars and ended the contract on Monday he will get an invoice to pay me what if he will use a fake debit card and I freelancer will receive nothing but that client has completed his work  & now I'm in the loss while Upwork will do nothing in this regard! What Upwork will do is only bank the account of the client but he will come with a new account and will keep scamming freelancers like us. What a shame 

[#8]

Yes Ali if upwork failed from the froud detection they should cover the losses ( since this is totally upwork falt why it not detected the scam ? ).

upwork can't run from their responsibility. 

[#9]

You're wrong Paypal put a hold on the account and notify us and they do their best to help us in this regard we are on the right side we get our payment back not like Upwork they are too lazy to respond I created a ticket 2 days ago and ask the community about a question and guess what I got no response what so ever.

[#10]

I have been through this process, as I wrote in another post. Being polite and giving you the documentation you have a legal right to see is not doing anything to help you. Paypal, like any regular business, hates the chargebacks too because it messes with their business. Time, cranky sellers and or buyers, banks, paperwork... they don't want this either. The business has no leverage over the financial institution. I have read the laws governing chargebacks, and I know what the process is and exactly what the business can or cannot do in a chargeback situation. Paypal can be supportive - but it does not affect the bank. Paypal did not get your money back. The bank ruled in your favor. You are misinterpreting Paypal supporting you verbally and legally.

It does take a bit for Support to get back to people. Yes, it is frustrating, but you are not alone. Everyone has to wait. You can also post in the "support" group.

No business can get money back in a chargeback - no business. The law in the United States does not mandate that, nor is there any way for a business to legally get the money. It is all about the bank. If you do business anywhere believing that the business is going to take care of you, especially with a chargeback, you are going to lose money or more.

[#11]

You don't hold onto a sentence without understanding the context. PayPal Seller Protection has its terms and conditions. Upwork also has it, as I wrote above:

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Upwork however attempt to please "sellers" by providing payment protection which means they will pay "the seller" with their own money in cases like this, but not without implementing a set of flexible rules.

You don't accept when your money "refunded" and blame Upwork. I tried to explain that it's not a refund, but a "taken back" by the bank. It's beyond Upwork's power, and even beyond PayPal's although they can be considered a financial institution (again, PayPal does not cover all loss - please don't just read a single sentence).

I don't have a solution for this problem other than banning the use of credit cards. It's the bank's money, not the customer's, that's why it's easier for it to be charged-back.

[#12]

Radia I know paypal have term and condition but they cover the losses if you (seller ) is right .

and it not just a context its a rule that's why seller can use without werry about chargeback.

[#13]

Paypal does not offer protection against a chargeback. I helped someone who had this problem. They were 100% rated as the seller. Paypal will give you documentation on the case but offer no support. Paypal has terms of service and additional rules that protect both buyer and seller. It took four months to get the whole thing sorted out, and the seller finally won. The seller declared it wasn't worth the long, drawn-out process and the disruption to their business because they couldn't withdraw funds.
With the flood of scams, you must protect yourself - no one else will. Learn the rules, read the forum, and it is highly unlikely you will be scammed. For chargebacks, all you can do is bring all the documentation and keep pushing the case. To protect yourself, use the automatic hourly tracker or set up small milestones if you work fixed price contracts because it limits how much money you can lose. There are tens if not hundreds of thousands of freelancers on the site. Very few are ever scammed.

[#14]

This thread is getting quite long. From what I see you would spend a bunch of time here rather than looking for work. I had a chargeback a while ago. Many of us have had this happen. Oh well, sometimes you just need to move on. There are an overwhelming number of clients who don't do this and are honest people. So, my advice is, set it aside and move ahead. 

[#15]

I've lost money in similar situations before. My advice: just move on, if you can deduct as a business loss, do so on your taxes. From my understanding Upwork will reverse if the client chargesback, and there's nothing you can do about it.

[#16]

we should fight against this parcility if upwork take 20% from each project . they are totally responsible for cover the losses.

[#17]

Upwork has problems they can fix. This isn't one of them. Let it go.

[#18]

Let's say you have an apartment to rent. You agree on a monthly payment to be sent to your bank account. Your renter does not pay the rent. Do you rant and scream at the bank for not giving you your money? Or do you address it with the renter? 

This is the same thing. Upwork isn't at fault when the client decided to not pay you. You need to take it up with the client. 

[#19]

Martina thats exactly his point. He can't take it up with client because client came through Upwork and is managed by Upwork.

I think you are all forgetting the main point that why people, both clients and freelancers, use Upwork. That is security of payment protection and protection from scams like this one and others. If Upwork can't ensure that, what would be the point?

[#20]

"He can't take it up with client because client came through Upwork and is managed by Upwork."

No, that is not true. Upwork does not prevent the freelancer and client from trying to come to an agreement. In fact, if you go to a dispute, you are encouraged to work things out. Upwork isn't managing the situation; the bank is doing that.

"That is security of payment protection and protection from scams like this one and others. If Upwork can't ensure that, what would be the point?"

Upwork does not say anything about saving freelancers or clients from scams. In the vast majority of cases, the freelancer breaks the Terms of Service by going off the platform. Yes, they have statements talking about security in vague comments. However, when you read all those comments, specific things in the Terms of Service must be followed, or Upwork will do nothing.

The problem with chargebacks lies with the bank. The businesses are not going to do much, nor can they do much, unless they change the way they operate. That isn't going to happen. The banks are the "bad guy" in the scenario. They hold the power because of the way the laws are written and the unwillingness of businesses to step up and refuse to accept this as the status quo.

The point is this is a freelancer platform for getting jobs. No one anywhere will guarantee they give their money in a chargeback. There is no money in a chargeback because the owner of the stolen will not pay the freelancer. The fees paid are not for your security. The money Upwork gets is used for their advertising, etc. If you are not prepared to use the platform, responsibilities included, then do not use this platform. Upwork is not changing their operating plan.

[#21]

Jeanne if upwork is taking 20% only for advertising, etc then why is upwork taking 5% fees on direct contract?

since direct contracts do not come under advertising.

[#22]

You realise running the platform costs money, right? It's not just advertising that needs paying for.

[#23]

This will be my last response because we are not getting anywhere in this conversation. You have opinions that do not work with online freelancing and refuse to accept the rules. I don't understand why you are spending so much time in the forum and not trying to learn how the platform works, your responsibilities, and the Terms of Service.

I didn't think I needed to spell out what should be evident with the etc. There are costs associated with the platform. There are costs for the equipment, Internet, staff, advertising, and every other cost of running the largest job-client platform on the Internet. I do not have a cost breakdown of all the costs and where they fall. The platform functions off of fees from freelancers for connects, memberships, and jobs. The 20% changes to 10% and then 5% depending on how much the contract is for when established.  

[#24]

Clients can just ghost or not respond at all. If Upwork does nothing, there is nothing forcing them to do anything. If Upwork block any client's account, do you seriously believe it would be same as that of freelancer's?

[#25]

As you said, there is nothing forcing Upwork to do anything about chargebacks.

[#26]

Yes but there should be; at the very least ethically or morally.