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Re: New milestone by a Client without prior consent

Active Member
Alex S Member Since: Jan 15, 2019
1 of 27

Hello UpWork Community,

 

I am sincerely curious to know how could it be ever justified that any UpWork Client have a technical possibility to create a new milestone within an ongoing fixed price and term commitment without having a freelancer's prior consent to it?

 

Under no terms this should ever be possible.

 

What is going on, UpWork?

Community Guru
Martina P Member Since: Jul 11, 2018
2 of 27

Alex S wrote:

Hello UpWork Community,

 

I am sincerely curious to know how could it be ever justified that any UpWork Client have a technical possibility to create a new milestone within an ongoing fixed price and term commitment without having a freelancer's prior consent to it?

 

Under no terms this should ever be possible.

 

What is going on, UpWork?


There is no formal step in place for a freelancer to approve the client's milestone. It is just weird that the client does it without prior discussing the work and the payment with the freelancer, and you are under no obligation to perform anything for that milestone, assuming that you provided all work for the prior milestone, submitted it, and klicked the submit for payment button. 

If anything feels strange to you, you are able to end the contract at any time and never work with that client again. 

I would try to discuss with the client what his expectations are, though. Maybe a simple misunderstanding, who knows? You will find out when you ask him. 

Active Member
Alex S Member Since: Jan 15, 2019
3 of 27

Hello Martina,

 

Thank you for your quick response.

 

That basically means that any freelancer may be potentially taken hostage by any Client by being assigned with additional milestones over and over again with a feedback being withheld until actions specified by that Client are accomplished by a freelancer.

 

And since such a possibility is being built in to the UpWork by default that sounds like a very clear and loud alarm bell to stay clear from this platform once and for all.

 

And THAT is for 20%? OK.

 

WIsh you every success and best of luck.

 

I will be served by contractual law, high court and escrow in a much more efficient way at a(the) fixed rate(s).

Community Guru
Martina P Member Since: Jul 11, 2018
4 of 27

Alex S wrote:

Hello Martina,

 

Thank you for your quick response.

 

That basically means that any freelancer may be potentially taken hostage by any Client by being assigned with additional milestones over and over again with a feedback being withheld until actions specified by that Client are accomplished by a freelancer.

 

And since such a possibility is being built in to the UpWork by default that sounds like a very clear and loud alarm bell to stay clear from this platform once and for all.

 

And THAT is for 20%? OK.

 

WIsh you every success and best of luck.

 

I will be served by contractual law, high court and escrow in a much more efficient way at a(the) fixed rate(s).


No, absolutely not, which is what I was saying. You can end a contract at any time, block the client, no hostages taken. If your aim was to vent, I hope you accomplished that, there are many other platforms where you might be happier.

Active Member
Alex S Member Since: Jan 15, 2019
5 of 27

UPWORK BOTTOMLINE

FREELANCER VERSION

 

(A) insanely overcomplicated signup process, with soon to come retina scanning prior to registration;

(B) after logging in from one locaiton/IP with an email first once, there is no possibility to further change freelancer's country unless deleting the whole account and creating again - which is not permitted by the UpWork applicable terms and conditions (which are over 200 printed pages long);

(C) Freelancer's location is tied to residency with two documents level of approval, nomads not welcome, as you cannot change your country once registered from, let's say Bermuda;

(D) Project rates below average market rates in an order of magnitude with clients' expectations above the possibilities of a dedicated 360 degree agency with two floors of staff to accomodate them;

(E) 20% per each first USD 500, 10% up to USD 10k with 5% herefrom per Client;

(F) 5 calendar days "cooldown" per each and every milestone disbursment before a freelancer even sees that amount on their balance;

(G) A Client is allowed to create new milestone without freelancer's consent within what is considered a "fixed term, fixed price contract" with all milestones being pre-defined by a freelancer in advance;

(H) once a week specific schedule per withdrawal transfer with specific minimums;

(I) momentary funds/accounts lockdowns - freelancer always guilty first until proven otherwise.

 

I could personally create this freelancer account only because I have been a client here earlier.

 

**Edited for Community Guidelines**

 

It is truly eye opening for an understanding of the scale of catastrophy to see how many people have had signed up for this.

 

If this message goes down / being deleted, a corresponding note goes to the corresponding court and/or officials.

 

A copy of this thread has been saved in electronic writing and will be presented to any 3d-party such as online/offline media upon sole decision of the publishing party.

Community Leader
Matthew T Member Since: Nov 18, 2017
6 of 27

I had a client do this same thing to me the other day, I was nearly finished with the contract and BOOM new milestone added.

 

One thing and one thing only went through my head, "Sweet, more money", seriously, new milestone = another 200 on the contract... then I read this thread and wondered if it should have bothered me, it didn't, and I do not see how maturing the contract is a bad thing. another milestone is another payout, that's good right...

Highlighted
Community Guru
John K Member Since: Feb 17, 2015
7 of 27
Matthew, while I agree with the spirit of what you wrote, it’s still inconsiderate of the client to add a milestone without first consulting you. What if you had existing commitments that would interfere with completing this promptly? Or what if it asks for something you’re not comfortable doing? That’s happened to me not in Upwork but elsewhere and I managed to get the job done each time but was I was not a happy camper. When clients do this, they’re treating you like an employee, so if they want you on call, they need to pay you a retainer.
__________________________________________________
"No good deed goes unpunished." -- Clare Boothe Luce
Community Guru
Preston H Member Since: Nov 24, 2014
8 of 27

It is inconsiderate of a client to create a milestone without consulting with the freelancer.

 

But, yes, it is physically possible to do so within the current Upwork user interface.

 

It's not ideal, but it's a possibility.

 

As always, these are two different topics:

- How should we work within Upwork as it currently exists?

- What changes should we suggest Upwork make in order to improve it?

 

As things are now... This HAS happened to me. I don't love it when it happens, but it needs to be dealt with calmly. I have simply explained to clients that I can't do the milestone they asked for, or I can't do it at that rate. I either offer them an alternative milestone description and rate, which they set up as a new contract, or I suggest that they hire other people with specific skills to do that work.

 

So... when clients do this, it doesn't mean I actually have to do the work. I have been fortunate in that clients have been understanding when I have declined their new milestones.


But this is one of the reasons why I work proactively to encourage clients to always close the contract as soon as I have been paid for a milestone. I work hard to make sure that clients know I work with single-milestone contracts. I don't ever want there to be confusion with clients about what the next steps in a project are.

Community Leader
Matthew T Member Since: Nov 18, 2017
9 of 27

John K wrote:
Matthew, while I agree with the spirit of what you wrote, it’s still inconsiderate of the client to add a milestone without first consulting you. What if you had existing commitments that would interfere with completing this promptly? Or what if it asks for something you’re not comfortable doing? That’s happened to me not in Upwork but elsewhere and I managed to get the job done each time but was I was not a happy camper. When clients do this, they’re treating you like an employee, so if they want you on call, they need to pay you a retainer.

Yes I can see that now John, I have only taken a few small jobs on UpWork and generally work under retainer from my clients, UpWork is the only exception to this rule, so my responce to it was just out of habit.

 

With the prior commitments, in the situation I mentioned, I did have to explain to the client that I couldn't schedule his new milestone until Friday afternoon(this was on Tuesday evening) he was disappointed, but seemed to understand and approved payment right away still. So it worked out, I could see how it could become complicated though.

Community Guru
Petra R Member Since: Aug 3, 2011
10 of 27

Alex S wrote:

 

**Edited for Community Guidelines**

 

...the scale of catastrophy to see how many people have had signed up for this.

 

...a corresponding note goes to the corresponding court and/or officials.


**Edited for Community Guidelines**

 

Oh and as for H ( "(H) once a week specific schedule per withdrawal transfer with specific minimums;") - You are free to withdraw your $ 20 any time you like, the "schedule" and "minimum" is only for auto-withdrawals.

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