Client requesting to pay outside of Upwork

[acanderson]

I received a message from a client asking for my phone number. I gave it to him. He called. We spoke about the position and he asked how much my rate is. I told him. Then he asked "how much if I pay you outside of Upwork?" I told him that I won't accept payment outside of Upwork. Then I informed him of the terms of service agreement I agreed to when I signed up. He said he didnt know how that worked. I told him there are options to go outside of Upwork after 24 months or if you pay an "opt-out" fee. He stated that he will think about it and let me know. I am just wondering: Am I obligated to report this client for saying they want to pay outside of upwork?

[versailles · Accepted solution]

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@Arthur A wrote:
 I am just wondering: Am I obligated to report this client for saying they want to pay outside of upwork?

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 It's tricky. We have heard horror stories from freelancers whose accounts were suspended after they reported a client for circumvention and we have at least one case of a freelancer bragging about being paid off-platform on Reddit whose account was reinstated.

I would say that random things can happen. So I would just forget about it and move on.

[acanderson]

Thank you sir. I will do that.

[bobafett999]

@Arthur:  You did the right thing.  You could tell the buyer that you are not comfortable working outside of Upwork, but if the contract exceeds $500 you will be happy to offer him 10% discount on the amounts over $500.

[f4b4f6ac]

Much respect to you

[prof-isaac]

It's better to ignore these kinds of clients. 

[bobafett999]

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@Isaac K wrote:

It's better to ignore these kinds of clients. 

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 Not necessarily.  Many buyers think it might be acceptable as they get those kind of proposals every day.  I had one of them, and he even sent me an e-mail from one of the freelancers. (and mind you freelancers seeking those arrangements are not exclusive to Asia-Pacific countries.  The e-mail was from a US person).

He turned out to be one of the most pleasant guy to work through the platform.

[colettelewis]

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@Arthur A wrote:
I received a message from a client asking for my phone number. I gave it to him. He called. We spoke about the position and he asked how much my rate is. I told him. Then he asked "how much if I pay you outside of Upwork?" I told him that I won't accept payment outside of Upwork. Then I informed him of the terms of service agreement I agreed to when I signed up. He said he didnt know how that worked. I told him there are options to go outside of Upwork after 24 months or if you pay an "opt-out" fee. He stated that he will think about it and let me know. I am just wondering: Am I obligated to report this client for saying they want to pay outside of upwork?

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 _______________________________

Actually, you are obligated according to the Terms of Service:

"You agree to notify Upwork immediately if a person suggests to you making or receiving payments outside of the Site in violation of this Section 7.1. If you are aware of a breach or potential breach of this non-circumvention agreement, please submit a confidential report to Upwork by sending an email message to: policy-reports@upwork.com".

Has the client got any history on Upwork? 

[acanderson]

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@Nichola L wrote:
 

Has the client got any history on Upwork? 

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No he has none. He has posted a total of 6 jobs. 5 of those have been closed. When I spoke with him he stated that he would consider hiring me through Upwork. Should I wait until the job closes before I report him? 

[colettelewis]

If five of his jobs have been closed without a hire. Either the client has closed them (and probably taken freelancers off site), or Upwork has closed them for whatever reason. I don't think he has any intention of hiring you through Upwork, but if he does come back to you, I would definitely not take on the job. From what you say, he was already quibbling about the price. Keep your good profile intact! 

It's your call, but if it were me, I would report him. 

[acanderson]

Understood. I just feel like if he does offer the position through Upwork I am protected as far as payment goes. And if I convinced him to do that then I have helped Upwork by changing his idea of how the platform operates. I record all calls coming and going to my cell (so that I never have to have a pen and paper ready) so in case I do report him I have that. 

[colettelewis]

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@Arthur A wrote:

Understood. I just feel like if he does offer the position through Upwork I am protected as far as payment goes. And if I convinced him to do that then I have helped Upwork by changing his idea of how the platform operates. I record all calls coming and going to my cell (so that I never have to have a pen and paper ready) so in case I do report him I have that. 

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__________________________________________
You're not in the business of saving clients from themselves. You are in the business of making money for you and building a good track record. Fixed-rate protection is minimal unless you trust your client implicitly and clearly, this client is not to be trusted. The only real protection you have is if you work on an hourly basis using the tracker.

[acanderson]

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@Nichola L wrote:

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@Arthur A wrote:

Understood. I just feel like if he does offer the position through Upwork I am protected as far as payment goes. And if I convinced him to do that then I have helped Upwork by changing his idea of how the platform operates. I record all calls coming and going to my cell (so that I never have to have a pen and paper ready) so in case I do report him I have that. 

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__________________________________________
You're not in the business of saving clients from themselves. You are in the business of making money for you and building a good track record. Fixed-rate protection is minimal unless you trust your client implicitly and clearly, this client is not to be trusted. The only real protection you have is if you work on an hourly basis using the tracker.

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 I never said it was a fixed-rate job. It is an 8-10 hour per week position. Thank you for your advice. I read 7 and plan to send the email immediately.

[purplepony]

Arthur, I didn't understand Nichola to infer that you had said it was a fixed-price job.  I understood her to simply share the difference in protection for each type, fixed price and hourly.

[acanderson]

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@Arthur A wrote:

Understood. I just feel like if he does offer the position through Upwork I am protected as far as payment goes...

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@Nichola L wrote:

...Fixed-rate protection is minimal unless you trust your client implicitly and clearly, this client is not to be trusted...

[resultsassoc]

Arthur,

I admit that I have not read every update to every subparagraph of the ToS to which I agreed; after sixty seconds of glancing at them, it should be apparent that Upwork expects to be paid for its services. The client in question is either too stupid to work for, or is trying to cheat Upwork. If he cheats UW, he will cheat you, too.

[dlrowolleh]

You get consent to record them?

[prestonhunter]

re: "You get consent to record them?"

Arthur said he records all calls going and coming to his cell phone.

Federal law permits recording telephone calls and in-person conversations with the consent of at least one of the parties. See 18 U.S.C. 2511(2)(d).

I don't know if Arthur gets consent to record telephone calls on his cell phone. He doesn't actually need to get consent from the other party. Clearly he is physically able to record the calls without consent. Nevertheless, the answer to the question might be interesting, although I assume the answer is "no."

[jainayush23]

Hi

The client was forcing me to deal outside Upwork (chat available for proof) when I refused to comply. The guy declined my proposal stating the reason **Edited for Community Guidelines**, the service provider forcing me to pay outside Upwork"

[NikolaS]

Hi Ayush,

Thank you for bringing this to our attention. I sent your report to our team for further investigation and appropriate actions will be taken according to our internal processes.

Additionally, we also encourage you to let us know if a TOS violation has happened by using the Flag as Inappropriate option throughout the platform. You can learn more about user reporting here.

Please check this post for the freelancer resources and tips for avoiding questionable jobs that we put together to help freelancers make decisions whether to work with a client or not.

[02c27b7f]

Hey 

[2ca29ec3]

Understand that there are bad people

[03cfa67f]

you did a good job!