Contract initiation fee to $10. Isnt' way too much?

[e22d6863]

Starting December 15, we’re increasing the contract initiation fee on Talent Marketplace and Project Catalog contracts to $9.95. We’ll include this fee in your first freelancer payment for each new contract.

Isn't applying a 10 usd contract initiation fee excessive? It will reduce a lot the new contracts. Upwork went from no fee to 4.9, now 9.9 (nearly 10usd).

I wonder how smart of an idea that is, and if it server any purpose other than increasing Upwork profits

[yofazza]

increasing Upwork profits

That's the idea. They never made any profit for over a decade (if we include their predecessors). Only recently they started to make profit after doing some major change. 

Mainly they do it on the freelancer's side, like opening the gate and milking the enormous number of freelancers by making them pay to join the 'proposal submission' game, it's actually weird to me when they also don't care about losing clients, like ignoring multiple client complains about bot proposals. Not sure what they're planning now.

There are over 10 million freelancers and 500k clients, or something like that, but the idea is they're greatly imbalanced. Weird if they don't care about the client isn't it?

[2297e2bc]

Id prefer loosing the BOTS and unscrupulous client. Money talks on both sides...th BS can walk! I always question how developimg some software (the app) and running a shared server somewher can cause a company to lose money!  Look at Truth Social- how can that be worth (whatever) when it is JUST A BULLETIN BOARD! 

Those have been free to buy since 1986~.... I used one for business!

With a per use fee, we'll only have 200K real homest people with 500K real professional freelancers.

Right now - Too many cooks in the kithcens and no propfit for the FL anyway.

But hey, you can always build a stand alone store on main street too!

[the-right-writer]

You might want to check the current information on your example.  Not worth so much in reality.

Upwork purposely let in anyone. They removed all tests and limits because they were "too difficult." Sure, they are, when you let in everyone. The connects are the income, and they are not going to let go. Somehow, despite other sites earning money, Upwork could never figure it out, and never made a profit until they fired 15% of their staff, and began to live off of connects. Experienced freelancers aren't the ones throwing connects at every job and boosting like mad. Therefore, the new and inexperienced become more valuable to them. The connects are the thing.

[ladyelexia]

It's a bit excessive. Lately, I have had clients on new jobs tell me that the contract fee needs to come out of my payment. Even after letting them know that freelancers already pay 10% of their earnings from each contract. The good thing that will come out of this is that there will be fewer scam clients, but expect to be more vigilant about "new client" accounts trying to take things off the platform. THOSE scam types will increase. 

[yofazza]

there will be fewer scam clients

That came to mind, but after a second thought:

• Why would that important to them? We see how they deal with 'scams' and 'scammed freelancers', and I often wrote that I 'finally understand' that protecting freelancers has no financial advantage to Upwork. Vetting clients too much, will scare-off legitimate clients away instead.
• There are better ways to stop freelancers from being scammed, than "harassing" the (greatly imbalanced number of) clients.

I just saw another example.

So "increasing Upwork profits"  it is 😁

[fe9b8d82]

Any client who told me that the contract fee would come out of my payment would be doing me a great favor by proclaiming loudly that they were a cheapskate who I definitely don't want to work with.

[AveryO]

Thank you for sharing your feedback, Jack! 

We regularly make platform and fee changes as an evolving work marketplace. Our ability to adapt our business to market conditions allows us to continue investing in innovation. The fees on our platform cover infrastructure maintenance, platform investments and feature improvement costs. We assess this fee when you have selected a professional to complete your project and made your first freelancer payment for each contract.

I understand that some clients may have the same sentiments as you. Could you please share, in your opinion, what would be a fair Contract Initiation Fee for clients like you? I want to understand better to share more accurate sentiments with the team. 

I hope to hear from you soon!

[moonraker]

---

Avery O wrote:

Could you please share, in your opinion, what would be a fair Contract Initiation Fee for clients like you?

---

I'm not Jack, but I think a fair fee would be a big fat zero.

I say that as a client and mostly as a freelancer. I won't be hiring on the platform again, and this will only exasperate an already satuarated market.

[7bd0d548]

Yea, as a client for my self would be hard if it's a short term contract. Because I mostly intend for long term engagement, but many freelancers would like to give up after few milestones. So we not just waste time anymore for such freelancers but wasting money also.

[justyourtype]

The fee is too much. They already impose the 5% fee plus $2.95 to clients, so an additional fee per contract is not a good idea.

I'm a longtime freelancer and client but mostly a freelancer.

The projects I hire for are small and Upwork already takes 10% from the freelancer and charges me 5% to pay plus a $2.95 fee.

My latest project is $185 and I had to pay $197.66, the freelancer only gets $166.50.

Not debating if it's "worth it" but it's not practical for my business.

[7bd0d548]

Hello,

Please tell me how this scheme will works, what if it was just a test paid and the freelancer failed to deliver the work, are we going to get both refunds from freelancer’s funded milestone and the upwork initial fee ?.

Becase we will still have to pay the freelancer if they failed the paid test. So the paid test usually just $5/$10. Now it must increase double which is very unfair.

Thanks

[feed_my_eyes]

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Ely B wrote:

So the paid test usually just $5/$10. Now it must increase double which is very unfair.

---

I was actually coming into this thread to question the wisdom of this increase myself, but after seeing your opposition to it, I've now decided that I'm in favour.

[7bd0d548]

If you are not a client then there's no any reason you should be in a state of to question the wisdom of this increase. But I don't pay $5/10 as test paid, I pay $50 as test paid.

Beside, high paying clients, they might initiate $5/10 as test paid then if the freelancer is good only then they will start paying $1000/milestones or $500/hour.  So it would still be a waste of money, because it's no longger as $10/test x 10 freelancers=$100, but ($5/10 test paid. + $10 initiation fee) x 10 test freelancers. That's like $200 just for testing per job. Whereas; they don't have to bear such amount in another platform.

So it's not a burden if all freelancers get their job done on time, but in most case, 70% of them just left or being irresponsive no matter how much they are compensated.

[the-right-writer]

If you are not a client then there's no any reason you should be in a state of to question the wisdom of this increase.

Freelancers should be concerned when anything impacts the client, because that also impacts the freelancers, and jobs, and money.  The change can make an enormous difference.

Great clients don't do cheap tests.

I want to see the statistics that prove 70% of all freelancers just abandon the job without being paid. You have numerous posts, in a variety of threads, berating the awful freelancers. If 70% of your freelancers are fleeing, you need to look in the mirror.

[7bd0d548]

Freelancers should be concerned when anything impacts the client, because that also impacts the freelancers, and jobs, and money.  The change can make an enormous difference.

=> I kind of thought, you guys as freelancers can just hope on to another platform if you can't find a client here. But as client seems problem is that, it seems there are more freelancers here than on any other platform.

Great clients don't do cheap tests.

=> Then what happened if you were scamed since you can't file a dispute here ?.

You never experienced as a client and see how many scammers in freelancer's side also. You can fund $200 then the freelancers did not even do any thing and then filed a dispute against you but upwork will scold you for having too many disputes. In fact, with cheap test $10-$50/milestones, dispute never really is raised and scammer is much less.

I want to see the statistics that prove 70% of all freelancers just abandon the job without being paid. You have numerous posts, in a variety of threads, berating the awful freelancers. If 70% of your freelancers are fleeing, you need to look in the mirror.
=> Then why I don't get these kinds of experience with some skills ?

[the-right-writer]

=> Then why I don't get these kinds of experience with some skills ?

That question has been asked and answered. If you have 70% of freelancers run away from you, you are, if not the entire problem, heavily contributing. I don't have to be a client, I help clients all the time. No one has the issues you have, no one.

[7bd0d548]

No you missed understood.

Some job post/contract are fine, some are not, particularly coding ones which is hard skill.

[the-right-writer]

You said 70% of freelancers ran away without doing the job. Is that true or not?

There are many, skilled coders on this site, who do not make a practice of fleeing the client before getting paid.

[xrmsquared]

Well, my unsolicited advice is that Clients are supposed to use their judgment when hiring a freelancer; certainly, those are the ones I work with.

I can judge a client pretty quickly, and a good client can judge a good freelancer pretty quickly.

If you're 'testing' 10 freelancers (wasting the time/energy/focus of 9 of them, plus how many other invited & interviewed?), then your seection process is flawed and it would appear to me that you don't trust in your own judgment.

Maybe you'll now be forced to be a little more human with people, and just a little less algorithmic with them.

[elisa_b]

Does Upwork think it is a good idea to squeeze $10 out of clients' pockets for each new contract? Really? You should encourage people to hire through Upwork, instead of scaring them away! 

Grasp all, lose all - never heard of it?

[7bd0d548]

Yea, the fact is that, upwork seems to pick sided with freelancers more than clients inequally. Maybe because many freelancers work for upwork directly, not sure. I am not saying there are many scam clients are tolerable, but there has to be some good intention client also here but seems failed to prevailed, not sure.

One example is, I was hacked by a freelancer before, then that freelancer is fine till now here. Another one is this $10 initiation fee, which should be divided equally with the freelancers so the freelancers will bear a burden when they not finishing the job.

[37bffaae]

The good thing about Upwork is the number of freelancers, where I like to have multiple jobs done from multiple people, seeing their art style and all adding something new and different to my projects. The excessive, ever-changing, increasing fees stops me from trying out all of these people on small jobs. I'll be leaving Upwork after 7 years once my current round of projects is over. $10 is way too much on a $50 job. For me and the freelancer.

[6ff26e1e]

Whichever UpWork board member made this strategic decision of increasing contract inititaion fee by 330% needs to be re-evaluated lol

This change is only going to push more clients to take jobs off the platform, decreasing UpWork earnings and decreasing freelancer and client security. Lose-lose situation at its finest.

Step backwards in my opinion, especially considering the amount of alternatives that are available nowadays.

[bc276083]

The price is way too steep and it hurts people like me who are in-between jobs and living paycheck to paycheck. I miss when this website used to be a decent place to look for freelance work but it seems like you're determined to bilk the consumer just like everyone else out there.

I didn't think that hiring freelancers on Upwork would be just as bad as everything else we're paying for in this cost of living crisis, but there you go. 

[spectralua]

Its a crazy. Greed killed this site.

Why only 10? Set 1000. You will get a lot before rest of clients gone. 🙂

I think pay for posting more useful that pay for hiring.

[7bd0d548]

No, it's should charge the freelancers 50/50 with client for this $10. Because many freelancers just left the job without getting the job after hired.

[spectralua]

Freelancer already pay $3 to unlimited for applying. Yep, look like that Upwork will force freelancers to pay an $10-20 for apply soon.

I think you are talking about bots with free connects or invited peoples. Noone will pay for apply then gone.

[e22d6863]

I agree, a fee to post a job would be better and would mean more hires too.

[7bd0d548]

I disagree,  it's just very unfair if freelancers got hired then left without finishing the job so eventually they don't lose anything while clients lose money in the initiation fee. 

[7bd0d548]

There's already $30 fee to post a job service.

[bettymwenda]

As a freelancer, I hope they find a solution because I have seen clients post 3 similar jobs in a day and after a week, no hires from any, and these jobs have 50+ proposals. We buy connects only to have proposals land on a job post that is never looked at. It sad, Upwork is never what it used to be.

[celgins]

I don't know if this will affect scammers--they never pay for anything anyway.

However, I do think it will reduce the number of low-paying jobs (i.e., < $50). Starting December 15, 2023, clients have to account for the $9.95 fee, which means they should post their $50 job at $60 in anticipation of losing $9.95.

This change might be two-fold: 1) it could reduce the number of low-paying jobs; and 2) it  covers those infrastructure maintenance, platform investments, and feature improvement costs Avery mentioned.

[lysis10]

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Clark S wrote:

I don't know if this will affect scammers--they never pay for anything anyway.

However, I do think it will reduce the number of low-paying jobs (i.e., < $50). Starting December 15, 2023, clients have to account for the $9.95 fee, which means they should post their $50 job at $60 in anticipation of losing $9.95.

This change might be two-fold: 1) it could reduce the number of low-paying jobs; and 2) it  covers those infrastructure maintenance, platform investments, and feature improvement costs Avery mentioned.

---

I guarantee they will post $40 and tell freelancers it's because of the $10 extra. lol The people who live in that scummy area of Upwork have no shame, but freelancers will do it too.

[7bd0d548]

Do you hire freelancers at $100/hr - $200/hr ?

[lysis10]

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Ely B wrote:

Do you hire freelancers at $100/hr - $200/hr ?

---

I am not slinging cheap code around ranting about freelancers so much that Upwork sends me a message that I've triggered too many disputes. I don't outsource my work. 

[7bd0d548]

It was supposed to be a yes/no answer.

By the way, I no longger have any dispute, that mean said 0 dispute throughout this year because :

1. I got solution from upwork & community to do test paid first (which something would be hard after this initiation fee is executed)

2. Upwork's idea to improve my communication (be more polite / respectful to other users), that helped alot also. In this case, seems you are not being too polite to my question. 😀

I was just asking a question to see if there are actually people would be willing to hire at such a high rate, because theoretically, there will always be more people to compensate lower. It would be a good  world out there if the theory is wrong, I would love to get hired at $200/hr my self.

[celgins]

I guarantee they will post $40 and tell freelancers it's because of the $10 extra. lol The people who live in that scummy area of Upwork have no shame, but freelancers will do it too.

No doubt! lol

[7bd0d548]

But wouldn't the high paying client still goes to another freelancing site anyway to evade the $10 initiation fee ?. Because there is no such fee in any other freelancing site. Seem the reason for those clients would choose to hire in upwork, is the more convenient and more active users, but I am not sure.

[celgins]

Clients always have options, just like freelancers, and some might leave or choose not to join Upwork due to the $9.95 contraction initiation fee.

If a client expects to pay $1,000 USD to a quality freelancer for a product/service, I don't think the $9.95 will matter much. However, if a client expects to pay $50 or less for a product/service, that $9.95 fee looks much different--especially for one-time clients who only need one project completed for $50 or less.

I think clients seeking low-paying "test" projects or short-term projects (i.e., 1 day or less) will not like this change, and may no longer post low-paying jobs. However, I don't see the change swaying clients who expect to pay $1,000+ for a project, and it certainly shouldn't affect Enterprise clients.