Freelancers lie about their location.

[konstantyn_cr]

I'm looking for a freelancer, and today I made three interviews. All three were from Chinese candidates, but on their profile stated that they are from Kiev, Moscow and Barcelona. None of them have local number, and don't speak Russian or Spanish, after short conversation they told a similar story about how they migrated to China, and that their monther is Chinese. Should I every interview start from asking if the candidate is from China? Can someone advice a strategy to avoid this?

[petra_r]

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@Konstantyn B wrote:

All three were from Chinese candidates, but on their profile stated that they are from Kiev, Moscow and Barcelona.

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 Report them...

Let me guess... your job is App Dev?

[versailles]

It seems that Chinese with fake profiles is the new thing on Upwork. If a client needs to spend a significant amount of money with a provider, he or she needs to speak with selected applicants via Skype.

Anyone who lies about anything on their profile should be reported to Upwork and blocked. Period. People who lie about their location or who have stolen profiles (Google some parts of their overview) or who use a fake photo (Google their photo), are just here to scam people.

[petra_r]

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@Rene K wrote:

It seems that Chinese with fake profiles is the new thing on Upwork.

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 Not new at all.

[konstantyn_cr]

Almost. PHP developer needed.

[75fa604e]

Where can we report people with fake locations on their profiles? 

[kochubei_valeria · Accepted solution]

Hi Konstantyn,

Sorry you came across some questionable freelancer profiles. Unfortunately, there are some fake profiles on Upwork and we have a few programs to battle that. One of which is a video verification program you can read about here. If you have doubts it's always helpful to have an interview with a candidate. If you discover any of the information on their profile is wrong, please report them.

I found the freelancer profiles you are referring to and will have them reviewed as soon as possible.

[konstantyn_cr]

Thank you for the update Valeria. That's really helpful.

[konstantyn_cr]

I have another examples today. What is a correct way to report them? Flag as inapropriate and choose "Bogus resume there" ?

[VladimirG]

Hi Konstantyn,

Please flag the profile and select an appropriate reason for reporting or submit a support request and share your concerns along with the freelancer's profile link with our team. Thank you.

[8f946a1b]

I'm having a similar problem. I often see freelancers claiming to be from the US when they very likely aren't. Is this so they can claim higher rates? Is this dishonest, or is this considered a lawless global free market where freelancers from a country with an average $300/month salary can request $100 for a job that takes a couple hours?

[prior_]

You could report to Upwork about providing fake profile data.

But how does average month salary in some country relate to particular freelancer's hourly rate? Here on Upwork we have global market. For sure you have a lot of replies to your job  so you could just pick the best freelancer and that's it.

[8f946a1b]

I did report it. Slava, you and the majority of Europeans who believe in a socialist system based on equality, let me ask you: do you think a freelancer who lives in a region where the average hourly rate is $2/hour should be making $50/hour thanks to Upwork for average-quality graphic design and hooking jobs like this? You don't think it will create a massive form of unequal wealth distribution in their region? Upwork is definitely not providing overall "good" to the world. Sure, it streamlines some things, but it net benefits the freelancer, not the customer. You still need to watch for crooks and liars, like anywhere. I stand by my point that lying about your location is wrong and that an average monthly salary in a given country should reflect a freelancer's hourly rate. A small premium is fine since Upwork takes up to an incredible 20% which the freelancer usually passes on to the customer anyways. If I want to pay a Ukrainian team a premium given the ongoing conflict their country is facing, that should be my decision (and I've done this exact thing).

[25005175]

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J S wrote:

you and the majority of Europeans who believe in a socialist system based on equality, let me ask you: do you think a freelancer who lives in a region where the average hourly rate is $2/hour should be making $50/hour thanks to Upwork for average-quality graphic design and hooking jobs like this? You don't think it will create a massive form of unequal wealth distribution in their region?... an average monthly salary in a given country should reflect a freelancer's hourly rate.

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Let me make sure I have this straight: you believe that there is a moral impetus to pay people less when they reside in a country with a lower cost of living, and that moral impetus is that their neighbors don't make as much? That your contractor, who is doing a job for you, should be paid poorly so that their neighbors don't become jealous?

Huh. Pretty sure I've heard that argument before. Ah, yes! It is one of the arguments that was used to justify paying second- and third-class citizens scraps! Because economic segregation meant that their neighbors also worked for scraps, so clearly paying any of them a just wage was irresponsible behavior, because it could incite jealousy betweenst them! The moral responsibility of the wealthy is to make sure that the poor remain poor, because any wealth among them will destroy their social fabric!

Listen, no freelancer should lie about their location. Everyone agrees on that. But don't come here and claim that the reason they shouldn't lie is so that you don't get tricked into paying more than what their living circumstances imply that they should be worth! ESPECIALLY BECAUSE THOSE LIVING CIRCUMSTANCES OFTEN DRAW A DIRECT LINE FROM THE HAPPENSTANCE OF THEIR BIRTH!!! 😠😠😠

[8f946a1b]

**Edited for Community Guidelines**. You've clearly taken this too far. Nowhere did I mention I was in favor of "paying them scraps". **Edited for Community Guidelines**. Did you catch the point I made where I said I'm in favor of paying them 20% above the average salary for a person in that role in their region? Oh, you missed that, figures. Regardless, my point stands, freelancers lying about their location to pretend their in the US to get US salaries is dishonest and should be reported.**Edited for Community Guidelines**

[25005175]

Relax, Ghandi.

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Don't compare me to Ghandi. He believed in maintaining the caste system, with the exception of abolishing the Dhalit (Untouchables) classification. Learn your history.

ETA:

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J S wrote:

Nowhere did I mention I was in favor of "paying them scraps". What garbage. Did you catch the point I made where I said I'm in favor of paying them 20% above the average salary for a person in that role in their region?

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 Do you mean this highlighted line? Because that is the only "20%" anywhere in your message (and all 3 other instances in this thread refer to this one, at time of writing). Not exactly the gesture of grand benevolence that you claim.

And they may not be scraps compared to the recipient's region, but they are scraps for you. You choose to hire them because you believe that they are worth less (not worthless) because of where they live. If you believe that your freelancer's output is worth $50/hr, then you would be willing to pay them that much. Since you don't, you clearly don't believe that their output is worth that rate.

You have this weird moral argument about purchasing work at rates commensurate with the average/median income of the seller's region. And you are flexing this argument in response to your feeling of being defrauded by people claiming to be from a specific nation, which is a completely separate matter. Truly, I cannot imagine any logical connection between these two issues that is not in some way grounded in xeno prejudice. Even "buying local" does not connect to your regional cost argument without passing through the land of "Anger At Being Deceived By Should-Be-Inexpensive-For-Me Foreigners".

Furthermore, your earlier comment to Preston that

American freelancers and others from high-income countries (cost of living is obviously more expensive as well, but I'm talking strictly about income here) don't have this luxury. Explained in other words, if an American freelancer lists "$1000/hour" as an hourly rate, no client will purchase their services, and said American isn't able to list a location where a salary like that may be considered normal in order to dupe customers from that location.

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deliberately chooses to ignore that freelancers from "high-income countries" usually have other luxuries that people from the "poor" countries don't. I say usually, because there are plenty of low-income and low-cost-of-living regions in "rich" countries - like Alabama. According to your logic, it is unreasonable for any freelancer in Alabama to charge rates commensurate with the average national income. You should also believe that it is unreasonable for any US freelancer to charge more than $32.48 (much less $100-200 per hour !!!), because the 2021 median individual rate for full-time employment was

$56473 / 2080 hours = $27.15/hr. $27.15 * 1.20 = $32.48.   

[NikolaS]

Hi there,

Thank you for reaching out to us. Could you please click on my name and send me a PM with more information about the freelancers you are referring to? I will be sure to look into your report and escalate it accordingly.

[8f946a1b]

Thank you very much Nikola. Will do.

[tlsanders]

What a bizarre way of looking at things. 

Obviously, freelancers shouldn't lie about where they are.

But, how does the location of the freelancer and the average earnings in their country in any way impact the value of the service the freelancer provides you? If the completed "product" is worth $100, then it's worth $100.

[8f946a1b]

**Edited for Community Guidelines** If something charges $100 for something, then it's automatically worth $100? Sorry, that's not how things work, unless you are stating that it's the word of God that says your "completed product" is worth $100 so it's worth $100. **Edited for Community Guidelines**

A very high quality product made in Pakistan will be sold there for 10x less than in the US for a reason. You're going to shake things up in a bad way if you start paying 5% of your country 95% of that country's GDP. We see it in South Africa, Namibia, Zambia, CAR, the list goes on. 

You may have needed to elaborate a bit further on your last sentence because it didn't make the point you were hoping for it to make. 

[prestonhunter]

It sounds like you are putting the needs of others ahead of your own needs and interests.

You do not need to do that.

As a client hiring freelancers on Upwork, I do not worry about the income inequities that my hiring may inflict on other communities. I simply try to get the work done I need - to serve MY NEEDS - at the best price I can, as expediently as I can.

If this means that I end up paying more money to a freelancer in a lower income country than 95% of his neighbors earn, I don't feel guilty about that at all. I simply do not think about it. Upwork doesn't ask us to think about it.

As a client, you are definitely free to consider such factors when you hire freelancers. I am not going to criticize anyone who wants to hire in a more compassionate and regionally-sensitive manner than myself. But Upwork is not going to add restrictions on how much money clients can pay freelancers based on where the freelancers live.

[8f946a1b]

A fair response. However, I'm still frustrated by the fact that freelancers from poor countries are out there lying. American freelancers and others from high-income countries (cost of living is obviously more expensive as well, but I'm talking strictly about income here) don't have this luxury. Explained in other words, if an American freelancer lists "$1000/hour" as an hourly rate, no client will purchase their services, and said American isn't able to list a location where a salary like that may be considered normal in order to dupe customers from that location. This is exactly what's going on here, and it's not right, period.

[kochubei_valeria]

All, 

A few posts have been edited or removed from this thread as they were in violation of the Community Guidelines.

I understand that opinions and experiences may be different. However, comments that are disparaging of other members and contain personal attacks won't be allowed. Forums, like the Community, are at their best when participants treat each other with respect and courtesy.

We appreciate your participation, so please consider this in your future replies.

I'd like to add that freelancers need to provide accurate and truthful information about themselves and their skills on their profiles. If you come across any profiles that may be inappropriate or in violation of Upwork TOS, please report them using "Flag as Inappropriate" option.

The terms of any contract, including the rate, are for clients and freelancers to decide upon together. Any freelancer dissatisfied with the rate offered can negotiate a higher rate or find a project they consider to be more suitable. Similarly, a client can consider proposals from multiple freelancers and choose a proposal they consider most suitable for them. 

[feed_my_eyes]

There's income inequality in America as well. Are you saying that nobody should charge above the median rate for their country, regardless of their skills or experience or how much clients are willing to pay for their services?

[8f946a1b]

There's income inequality everywhere to varying degrees, you are correct Christine. I am not saying that nobody should charge above the median rate for their country. I am saying that people lying about their location in order to pretend to be in the US and therefore dupe and extract a higher salary for example, should be penalized. This dishonesty should not be tolerated on Upwork.

[prestonhunter]

Clients should not pay freelancers more money because the freelancer lives in the U.S.

Clients should pay freelancers more money because they want that freelancer's services and they can't get those services by paying less.

If one freelancer lives in Freedonia, and charges $50/hour, and that's the freelancer I want to hire because he is better for my project than the other candidates, then that is who I should hire and I will need to pay him his rate. I don't know if that's a lot of money for people in his country. I don't know if that rate means he is barely scraping by and depends on handouts from others. It doesn't matter when it comes to my hiring decisions.

[25005175]

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J S wrote:

I often see freelancers claiming to be from the US when they very likely aren't. Is this so they can claim higher rates?

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For some, maybe. For others, it is so that they may be considered for jobs that are restricted to the US or considered by Clients who may be prejudiced against their nationality (not ethnicity). Regardless, it is fraudulent.

is this considered a lawless global free market where freelancers from a country with an average $300/month salary can request $100 for a job that takes a couple hours?

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This is a lawless global free market where any freelancer from any country with any average salary can request/charge $100 for a job that takes a couple hours... Actually, not quite. Upwork does have minimum charge rules. And like any free market, prices are set by the sellers and then the customers choose whether or not to agree to those prices - and budgets are set by the customers and then the sellers choose whether or not to work under that budget. It goes both ways.

[prestonhunter]

Maybe keep these jokers in mind if you need to hire second-rate fiction writers.

Otherwise... Someone lying about who they are is likely to be a huge mistake as a programmer.

Like Rene said... They're not telling a little fib so they can get a chance to do real work.

They are scammers, and in most cases will string you along as long as possible while billing time or charging for junk... And when you look into things more closely you'll see any work you paid for is completely useless.

[7906e365]

I have this issue all the time. My solution is to request a zoom video interview before anything else. They never reply to me after I ask for this interview.

[PradeepH]

All,

We've closely followed this conversation and are grateful for the open dialogue our community members engage in here. 

Since the arguments have been exhausted and the conversation is moving in an unproductive direction, we will be closing the thread.

We want to remind everyone that the Upwork Community is a professional forum and encourage everyone to provide feedback constructively. Remember that when posting comments that specifically identify or address an individual, you refer to an actual person. Please keep the feedback coming and remember, we are a community of professionals. We appreciate the passion, but we should all take care to use a professional, respectful approach when posting in the forums.

Thank you,

Pradeep