Leaver Freelancers

[7bd0d548]

Hi

Regarding to this post https://community.upwork.com/t5/Clients/Contract-initiation-fee-to-10-Isnt-way-too-much/m-p/1479771#... do anyone face freelancers whom just loves to get hired then leave, ended contract or became iresponsive ? Please tell me what do freelancers got to lose if they misbehave in such a case?

 Because it would be very unfair to clients the fact that they have to pay excessive initiation fee only to be treated like that. In another platform, the initiation fee are divided amongst freelancers and clients so then the success outcome is much bigger because both parties will try its best to finish the job instead of canceling it or ending the contract. The freelancers are too afraid to lose money if they cancel, or ended the contract in that case.

[AveryO]

Hi Ely, 

Thank you for sharing your feedback about this feature. Clients will pay this initiation fee on Talent Marketplace and Project Catalog contracts. This is a once-per-contract fee when clients make their first payment to a freelancer. This fee is included on our agreement page.

The exact time we collect the fee depends on whether it is a fixed price or hourly contract.  

• Hourly contracts: Fee is collected when clients make their first payment to freelancers
• Fixed-price contracts: Fee is collected when clients fund the first milestone 

We will collect the fee for each contract, but only once per contract. If a contract ends without payment, the fee will not be assessed. I hope this clarifies how the fee works. You may visit this help article for more information. 

[7bd0d548]

That was not really my question actually. The exact question and answer I need is a solution here, not a description what / how the fee is implemented.

But the actual question here is, freelancers are not bearing any burden for this scheme that making them to behave improfessionally. Out of 10 hired (test paid), in most case, only 1 of them stays to finish the task. So It won't be a problem for just $10 as long as the freelancer finished and delivered it. How do I can be ensured to hit and get to that 1 target freelancer ?.

So why are the freelancers not bearing any burden to make them stay hence finish the task ? Because if they were shared the burden on the fee also, just like any other platform, then they would definitely up to the task.

Because I hope you all understood the fact that, I have tried funding test paid ast $10, $30, $50, $100, or $200. It makes no any difference, so it's not about how much it is.

[e8c64d46]

try to something good on platform being a new member onboard

[7bd0d548]

I am not new, you are probably much newer than me. lol

[the-right-writer]

Does that negate bringing something good to the platform?

[7bd0d548]

I never said being old/new will bring something good. But the fact, keep making post like I do will surely do negate bringing something good to the platform.

At least, I am not ranting & complaining about so many cheap clients out there in the world while don't even hire a singgle freelancer while accusing/insulting/disrespecting legit clients whom are actually paying for something. Also  the fact is that we're living in capitalism is what those whiners should be realizing.

[the-right-writer]

I have no idea what capitalism has to do with the fact you have issues with freelancers, other than it is a free market.

[the-right-writer]

I believe that was a conclusion brought about by your comments.

[the-right-writer]

You control the job. Are freelancers leaving before or after being paid, and how many times has this happened? If after being paid, you need to learn how to manage the job, or hire a project manager. If before being paid, then you have a problem with the way you work with freelancers. Freelancers abandoning a project before getting paid is not one of the problems here.

[7bd0d548]

Yes, you are right about that, but what the problem here is confusing. It can be technical or personality (seems more about personality), but definitely not even about how much the payment is. They already agreed, even I doubled than how much they agreed, but not made any difference.

[b4c15981]

Are you hiring freelancers who are new to the platform? It surprises me to have such a high failure rate if you are paying competitive rates. Maybe try hiring more experienced freelancers with high earnings and strong reviews. 

[7bd0d548]

Yes both, it makes no difference.

I happened to find more new freelancers more successive in fact.

[lysis10]

---

Nicole G wrote:

Are you hiring freelancers who are new to the platform? It surprises me to have such a high failure rate if you are paying competitive rates. Maybe try hiring more experienced freelancers with high earnings and strong reviews. 

---

He has several rants posted to projects. He filed so many disputes Upwork was even sick of it and suspended him. His client history is freelancer repellant. lol He posts $50 jobs, can't find anyone good, and then posts rants in freelancer profiles after disputing. His entire problem is that freelancers can see his history and don't want to work with him.

[7bd0d548]

lol He posts $50 jobs
=>
You just have problem with me because I asked you "do you even hire a freelancer as a high paying client ? can you hire me as a freelancer on $500/hr ?"

It's obviously the answer is no, then you start whining and ranting, disrespecting & insulting clients, complaining why are there too many cheap clients out there while the fact is that you probably never spends any penny on the platform. That makes you no better than the cheap legit clients whom actually are making payments. So my suggestion is to try be a client your self and start hiring people with the skills that you don't have before think like you know everything what's in client's side is like.

His entire problem is that freelancers can see his history and don't want to work with him.

=> see here you got it wrong lol, you don't even know what's it like to be a client. In fact, most leavers, they accepted contract then leave, so in most case freelancers don't look at those.

can't find anyone good,

=> wrong lol, Not because of $, but because of the freelancer's skill set availability. I can find any designer, php, etc much easier for some skills.

See here, everything you said is wrong, stop shaming your self and start hiring and become a high paying $500/hr client and don't be a cheap one so you would be insulting and shaming yourself. lol

He filed so many disputes Upwork was even sick of it and suspended him.

=> It was not because of $, but because of the way I communicated as suggested by upwork, I was rude like you, so making many of the freelancers fed up with me lol. So I wanted to fix my personality and suggested by upwork and community members to conduct cheap test with few freelancers firstly, because of those whom deserved kudos hence it worked, I get 0 disputes for the whole year. 

[spectralua]

I think it should be refunded if freelancer gone without accepting (or rejected proposal). This is fee for hiring but noone hired. 

If accepted then you able to give private feedback. Or add to contract $ and give public feedback as well.

[7bd0d548]

No, we're talking about the freelancers whom accepted the contract then leave. It's initiation fee is not refunded, even there would be some freelancer scammer whom won't refund the funded milestone. So you would see how hurt the client in this case is right ?

In such a case, if they do refund because of not finishing job, then the initiation fee is not refundable as well as clients  private feedback does not means anything. Because I've hired countless freelancers whom then just leave without finishing then we lost $2 (x 100 of them), that's $200 lost (week). It can stil be tolerable, but now they made it $10, that's like wanted client to loose $1000 (week). So I am sure you would see so much lesser clients in the platform unless they would divide the fee with the freelancer.

[yofazza]

I wasn't sure before, but Avery wrote above that the initiation fee should be returned in case of no payment. 

Here's another one, We shall see him complain if he only has $60 returned.

[7bd0d548]

I aksed on a ticket and they said, the fee is unrefundable after milestone is funded.

[rekasesh]

Why would anyone need to test 100 freelancers? 

I have been part of paid tests but most involved 2 to 10 people. Some resulted in repeat jobs, some went to others. 

The profile, proposal samples and portfolio should be enough to give an idea of their skills. 

Else, you are choosing the wrong set of freelancers to invite or test. 

True freelancers wade through junk posting and work on paid tests because we want to earn money doing what we know and love. We don't have time to play these games.  I offer my clients that option to show my interest and erase any doubts about working with me. 

[spectralua]

100 is real. 50 more bots applying within hour. So client able to hire for test most of them. An 90% of newbies have no clue how to complete simple task. But you need to test each one to say that for sure.

Many clients (gone from this trashcan already) claimed that unable to find someone ater 20-30 interviews (with real freelancers, exclude bots). Who will waste day of own time to found freelancer for 20 min job?

Ely, what is average % of real peoples from all proposals you receiving for job post?

[7bd0d548]

- Bots are declined manually right away.

- Yes most newbies needs to be tested. But in some case, newbies outperforms seniors because senior freelancers the ones tends to be a leaver (not finishing job). I have tried so hard, but still they are negligence. Not because of money, we negotiated salary, they agreed, then they left the job unfinsihed. After checking their profile again, their profile is fine, not punished and I can still see them in the job post - invite. That's the biggest reason why they they just ended the contract, since they bear $0 initiation fee.

- I can understand why clients gone :

a. Exessive Initiation fee, making us, very hard to do test paid.

b. Poor platform's algorithm, making us, very hard to find good freelancers especially without test paid.

c. It takes almost 1-2 week for me to find few good freelancers after screening 1000 of them, tested 20 of them, for just one job.

d. Unable to invite more than 30 freelancers, unless, clients have to pay extra $30 for more and more but that's still no guarantee to find good freelancers.

e. In one Job post - out of 20 proposal, I usually received about 5 bots, 10 incompetence/irrelevance, 5 negligence (leavers after hired), whereas; usually only 1 or 0 good freelancers. So I had to keep reposting the same job, but then they flagged me by ticket saying I am flooding the platform because of that.

[8d1359cb]

if senior freelancer are leaving your jobs than it must be something wrong with the job it self. may be you are not describing your requirments clearly or may be you are asking for extra work or the job is totally diff then the one you post job for. 

if I remember correctly, you were complaining about freelancer last year as well and you had the same problem that freelancer are applying/completing jobs. 

[7bd0d548]

Senior freelancers are usually busy with their many other clients, that's why. 

Last year has no $10 initiation fee.

[8d1359cb]

As a client I think you can see if the freelancer has any job in progress or not and you can always ask to be priority. why hire a freelancer if you think they cant give enough time to your job.

[7bd0d548]

Sounds a good possible answer. Now I  know why some of them are iresponsive, so I kind of assume they are either busy or uninterested.

[the-right-writer]

Because most of the freelancers I know, maintain open contracts for regular clients. It doesn't mean we are constantly working with a client.

[the-right-writer]

You should consider Rizwan's post. Experienced freelancers are not perfect, but if you are experiencing freelancers just abandoning the job, experienced or new, something is happening. Are these freelancers paid when they leave? How many have left before the job was complete? I don't think your issue is with experienced or new freelancers, if it has happened with both.

Most experienced freelancers have jobs listed in progress. It doesn't mean the freelancer is currently working those jobs. I have multiple clients who want to leave the job open, so they can call on me when needed. So, the issues are not having other clients.

[7bd0d548]

Are these freelancers paid when they leave? 
=> No they are not paid yet then left in most case, the ones stay usually works for longer term (months/years).

How many have left before the job was complete? I don't think your issue is with experienced or new freelancers, if it has happened with both.

=> In most case, senior freelancers are the leavers. But can't really tell for sure actuallyl, feels almost 50/50. However; I am sure, The junior ones in most case are the ones that can stays for months/years.

Most experienced freelancers have jobs listed in progress.

=> it feels, the senior freelancers have full time jobs also.

[the-right-writer]

Nothing you have told me explains the 70-% of freelancers who run away from you. Also, you haven't answered my questions from other posts, that would lead to real conclusions. Why are you, out of all the clients on Upwork, having 70% of the hired freelancers, leave without any pay?

[7bd0d548]

I don't know, they are the one whom left before the milestone released. Ironically, they just refunded it.

[8d1359cb]

I would leave without getting paid if Client is abusive, job is not what was advertized, unrealistic expectation or extra work. Clearly you are not communicating enough with the FL or may be you are unable to do it (many clients just dont know what they want from project or how to overlook the job ). before you say "No one asked for your opinion" I still want to say that you need a project manager. 

[the-right-writer]

I still want to say that you need a project manager.

Absolutely.

[7bd0d548]

Honestly, I tried that, it made no difference. The real efective solution is test paid 10 freelancers/job, but the high initiation fee would made it difficult.

[7bd0d548]

I would leave without getting paid if Client is abusive, job is not what was advertized, unrealistic expectation or extra work.

=> Yes, thank you you are seems almost be getting to the point, but it seems, because of technically they can't do the job. 

Clearly you are not communicating enough with the FL or may be you are unable to do it (many clients just dont know what they want from project or how to overlook the job ).

=> They just leave and became iresponsive, either before or after hired.

"No one asked for your opinion"

-> I am sorry, when you said $50/hr were cheap for you, that feels very rude, insulting, abusive and disrespectful because you probably never even paid a singgle penny here. My advice is you should become a client and pay freelancers before becoming such a person.

It's why I would said to you, if you can hire me at a very high cost $1000/hr, I will be more very respectful and appreciative to you no matter how badly you've mistreated me. Only then, You can insult me such.

------

Well anyway above all, amongst 10-20 hired (test paid), I always end up getting at least 2 of them. 

[7bd0d548]

job is not what was advertized, unrealistic expectation

=> Well you can't explain everything in the job post, also there are many rules for that.

[7bd0d548]

Do you have access to upwork's data ? please don't shoot random data because it will cause confusion and missleading.

[7bd0d548]

- Possible, if there are 10 jobs opened...

Designer

Python

php

SQl

Android

CS

translator

salesmen

many more

- Proposals are not enough, there are many other reasons why after hired, they left. Such as sickness & other priorities.

- Paid test are no games. Congratulation, you are 1 out of those 10 freelancers whom is not a leaver.

[4bc9db1d]

why my account block

[4bc9db1d]

8 dolar