Name on a received invoice?

[#1]

I have a quick question on the invoices you receive from Upwork. As a client, when receiving an invoice from Upwork whose name and address is shown on that invoice? Is it Upwork itself or is it the name and address of the freelancer that was hired by you? So who are you paying according to the invoice, Upwork or the freelancer?

[#2]

Still no invoices, Upwork?

[#3]

Just jumping in here to say that there's more people out there waiting to get proper invoices.

Krisztina, Margarete and Joachim have been bang on about this matter (props for explaining things to Upwork so tirelessly again and again!). As a client, this is an extremely frustrating experience and I hope Upwork get's it right with the upcoming "improvements".

Anyone thought of creating an "Eigenbeleg" as an alternative?

[#4]

Hi Michael,

To produce another document in order to replace that kind of "invoice" that is issued by Upwork at the moment is not a good idea. Then two invoices will exist (one Upwork invoice, part of the US economomic system) and another that is part of the the country where the client or freelancer lives in Europe. 

Finally, there will be two different invoices for the same thing, that must never happen and will falsify the balance of trade as well.

If Upwork will not change the invoices according to European laws the Europeans will not be able to use the platform in the future in order to prevent that they come in conflict with their tax and/or legal authorities.

[#5]

probably they had serious issues with speed latest week, lets also consider that, but really here we're all waiting for something more than promises 😕 

[#6]

Hope dies last.

[#7]

Invoices have been updated to include addresses, you should see this reflected on your current invoices created after Sept. 15

-Lena

[#8]

just checked my invoices generated on sept 21th but nothing has changed. maybe it will need some time to propagate. lets see.

tnx

[#9]

HI Gabriele,

It will take sometime to propagate as your freelancers will be notified to provide an address for the invoice. 

[#10]

Lena, The freelancers have filled in their addresses in Upwork already, why should they provide their address for the invoice? You did not mention how Upwork intends to handle the 19% VAT that are due for work between clients and freelancers from Europe. 

[#11]

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@Lena E wrote:

HI Gabriele,

It will take sometime to propagate as your freelancers will be notified to provide an address for the invoice. 

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Lena,

What about the clients? Will they also be notified to provide a full address and a VAT ID (if located within the EU), so that the freelancers receive a legal invoice compliant with EU regulations? 

[#12]

Clients already have the option in their information section to display their VAT ID. 

[#13]

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@Lena E wrote:

Clients already have the option in their information section to display their VAT ID. 

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I know, but the freelancers so far don't receive a copy of a legal invoice displaying the address and VAT ID of the client. The client on the other hand will also need that freelancers' VAT IDs. BOTH VAT IDs have to be displayed on the invoice and the invoice has to be available for freelancer and client. 

[#14]

Hey guys, to further clarify my response about addresses. Freelancers will now have an option to add their address to invoices by completing information in their account settings, the box will look like this:

If you do not see your freelancers address on the invoice, simply as them to complete the information on their account and it will sync over.

Hope this helps,

Lena

[#15]

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@Lena E wrote:

Hey guys, to further clarify my response about addresses. Freelancers will now have an option to add their address to invoices by completing information in their account settings, the box will look like this:

If you do not see your freelancers address on the invoice, simply as them to complete the information on their account and it will sync over.

Hope this helps,

Lena

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Hi Lena,

first of all this ought to be compulsory before a freelancer can accept a job. What about the freelancer's VAT ID? Secondly what about the invoice copy for the freelancer?  The freelancer needs a complete invoice too.

[#16]

Thanks Lena, Upwork is slowly going in the good direction, as it was already on Elance.

On top of the freelancers address:

regarding the VAT or TAX nr: I have noticed that Upwork has been added an option for some freelancers to provide their VAT ID in their account settings.

Good almost finished.

how can they get that data also show up to the invoices the client can download?

thanks,

Wim

PS.: to compleet the invoice, it would be good that there is written that the invoice is given by the freelancer has as payment method: to "EEC": Elance Escrow Corporation, a Delaware corporation and wholly owned operating subsidiary of Upwork Inc., that provides the Escrow Services pursuant to the User Agreement and the applicable Escrow Instructions.

by this the payment of the client to (Upwork) corresponds with the invoice the freelancer gives via the download system of Upwork.

[#17]

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@Wim J wrote:

Thanks Lena, Upwork is slowly going in the good direction, as it was already on Elance.

On top of the freelancers address:

regarding the VAT or TAX nr: I have noticed that Upwork has been added an option for some freelancers to provide their VAT ID in their account settings.

Good almost finished.

how can they get that data also show up to the invoices the client can download?

thanks,

Wim

PS.: to compleet the invoice, it would be good that there is written that the invoice is given by the freelancer has as payment method: to "EEC": Elance Escrow Corporation, a Delaware corporation and wholly owned operating subsidiary of Upwork Inc., that provides the Escrow Services pursuant to the User Agreement and the applicable Escrow Instructions.

by this the payment of the client to (Upwork) corresponds with the invoice the freelancer gives via the download system of Upwork.

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Wim,

Haven't seen any field where I as a freelancer can enter my VAT ID. Where do you enter it? Further, Upwork is far from finished, I don't even receive a reply from Lena regarding legal invoices for the freelancer. The freelancer/contractor also requires legal invoices showing the complete address of the client and the VAT ID. So far all the replies I received from CS say that they won't do it to protect the client. If they stick to this notion, everything they do is in vain.

[#18]

Never ending story...

[#19]

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@Margarete M wrote:

Never ending story...

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Well, it will end the moment Upwork has implemented everything in compliance with EU regulations 🙂 

[#20]

ok I understand Joachim M,

1) then they are probably testing with some freelancers

or

2) they are providing it only for agencies.

here are the INVOICE rules for the EU: http://ec.europa.eu/taxation_customs/taxation/vat/topics/invoicing_en.htm

still missing is Breakdown of VAT amount payable by VAT rate or exemption.

In most cases the VAT % will be 0 if between EU members from different countries or

the words : "exemption" of VAT if freelancer is a non-EU member, then it is importing of services.

But I believe now from 1-10-15 that non-EU companies need to charge the VAT % applied to the clients country and forward that VAT to that country if the client is a NON-business.

When the client has a EU VAT number, then the freelancer is excempt of charging VAT.

Still the words "excempt" or 0% VAT should be mentioned on it.

what is your idea about it?

[#21]

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@Wim J wrote:

ok I understand @jmeyn

1) then they are probably testing with some freelancers

or

2) they are providing it only for agencies.

here are the INVOICE rules for the EU: http://ec.europa.eu/taxation_customs/taxation/vat/topics/invoicing_en.htm

still missing is Breakdown of VAT amount payable by VAT rate or exemption.

In most cases the VAT % will be 0 if between EU members from different countries or

the words : "exemption" of VAT if freelancer is a non-EU member, then it is importing of services.

But I believe now from 1-10-15 that non-EU companies need to charge the VAT % applied to the clients country and forward that VAT to that country if the client is a NON-business.

When the client has a EU VAT number, then the freelancer is excempt of charging VAT.

Still the words "excempt" or 0% VAT should be mentioned on it.

what is your idea about it?

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Wim, I can say how I handle it on Elance. I have a VAT ID and this is displayed on the invoices generated by Elance. If the client within the EU also has a VAT ID I don't charge VAT but file a report every quarter with the tax office in Saarbrücken (it is in charge for all of Germany for this) listing the revenue per client VAT ID. As far as I know the tax office in Saarbrücken then forwards this to the tax office in the client's country and they check whether or not the client has filed a report for theses purchases as the client has to pay importation VAT. If an EU client doesn't have a VAT ID I charge my local VAT of 19% (doesn't happen often).

Since January this year automated electronic purchases (e.g. eBooks), called e-services, have to charge the VAT of the buyer's country and forward the VAT to the buyer's country. This means that the seller has to handle the tax regulations of 28 member states. Again, if both parties have a VAT ID no VAT is charged just a report has to be filed.

I'm not sure about the date but I have also heard that companies located outside the EU have to charge the VAT of the buyer's country and pay it to the tax office in the buyer's country. I just don't have a clue how the EU want's to enforce this.

As far as I know the rules applicable for e-services will apply from January 1st, 2016 to all goods and services. This will result in me not accepting EU clients on Elance without VAT ID from January 1st on.

BTW, it doesn't make sense to NOT register for VAT ID. If a freelancer is small enough to be exempt from charging VAT (in Germany the threshold is 17,500 Euro annual turnover) he still has to pay VAT and the VAT ID will make life a lot easier for his clients. IMHO it doesn't even make sense to be exempted from charging VAT. If you apply for this exemption you are no longer allowed to deduct the VAT you paid. 99% of my turnover is generated by clients outside of Germany, meaning I don't charge VAT. But, I can still deduct the VAT I paid e.g. on petrol, on train tickets, on office equipment etc. Hence, at the end of the year my tax office will return all the VAT I paid on purchases to me.

If your date of October first for non-EU countries is correct Upwork will have to file reports with the EU member states and pay VAT to them. Will be interesting to see how the EU is going to enforce that.

[#22]

Thanks Joachim,

the VAT rule for countries outside the EU as the VS, I have seen already on large VS domain sellers as name.com and Godaddy.

They told me starting 1-10-15

Now Upwork totally changed to an escrow service, where Elance Escrow Corporation ("EEC") is collecting the funds in the other parties name.

So why is Upwork not allowing VAT nr on the invoice to still protect them self?  I presume that is the only reason, to protect them self from all different country rules.

Upwork needs to charge EU VAT to the freelancer on the 10% commission they charge the freelancer.  Probably for that reason, (they have created the VAT field for the freelancers, to eventually not needing to pay VAT on the 10% commission they get.  

That VAT field is not created for the freelancer and for the client.

(I have seen many other companies that work on %, working the same)

[#23]

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@Wim J wrote:

Thanks Joachim,

the VAT rule for countries outside the EU as the VS, I have seen already on large VS domain sellers as name.com and Godaddy.

They told me starting 1-10-15

Upwork needs to charge EU VAT to the freelancer on the 10% commission they charge the freelancer.  Probably for that reason, (they have created the VAT field for the freelancers, to eventually not needing to pay VAT on the 10% commission they get.  

That VAT field is not created for the freelancer and for the client.

(I have seen many other companies that work on %, working the same)

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 Wim, I'm not sure about Upwork having to add the VAT on the commission invoice. My tax advisor told me that this regulation only applies to companies from outside of Europe selling directly to consumers. We as freelancers are viewed as businesses, regardless of the size of our business!

[#24]

Wim,

here is the database to verify VAT IDs: http://ec.europa.eu/taxation_customs/vies/faq.html?locale=en

[#25]

Thanks Joachim! We hear you guys and appreciate your patience as we work to make these changes. We are working to improve our invoices and have plans to add freelancer VAT Ids where applicable and for freelancers to receive invoices as well. I dont have an exact timing on when these changes will be available on the site but will update you guys when we do. 

[#26]

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@Lena E wrote:

Thanks Joachim! We hear you guys and appreciate your patience as we work to make these changes. We are working to improve our invoices and have plans to add freelancer VAT Ids where applicable and for freelancers to receive invoices as well. I dont have an exact timing on when these changes will be available on the site but will update you guys when we do. 

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Well Lena, you have a working process on Elance, why not use that? Okay, it's not 100% perfect but 90% is covered. Why don't you use that? The remaining issues with the process on Elance:

• Clients can still hide their address details
• Clients can still have incomplete addresses
• Freelancer and client don't know whether or not a VAT ID is available, they ought to know before quoting or inviting
• Elance doesn't provide invoices for the commission and the fee

Everything else is working.