Chen a client goes silent and doesn't communicate with talent

[5e6175a5]

I am appalled at the lack of communication I sometimes experience with clients on UPwork and in general. Does anyone else experience this lack of respect in their day to day work lives? Or am I just 'old school' and rules of professional etiquette are different today. Karen Kelly

[prestonhunter]

Clients are not obligated to continue communicating with freelancers.

As a freelancer, I get paid automatically for the work that I do, regardless of whether or not a client communicates with me.

You seem to think that it is unprofessional for a client to stop communicating with a freelancer.

But you do the same thing.

Have you gone to a restaurant, and then not returned to the same restaurant the next day? Or the next week? Or ever?

If the answer is "yes", then it means you used that restaurant's services, and then you stopped communicating with them.

As a freelancer, you are like a restaurant: You provide a service to clients.

If a client does not need your services today (or this week), then that is fine.

[9f09509d]

I love this take. I work on projects as a freelancer as well as post projects as a client. Your perspective will change once you straddle both sides. The client accounts are usually flooded with messages and notifications since so many freelancers are eyeing them. Most of the time, they aren't even aware of our communications. Until and unless you have a longstanding relationship with a client, don't expect them to respond regularly (or at all for that matter). 

Still, as a freelancer you should keep following up. You never know which client might be the diamond.

[1a6e583e]

I think she meant about opening a new contract and all of the sudden the other end fails to communicate at any stage of the project. 

[2ef54d61]

You are not alone. Clients frequently ghost and it's very frustrating.

Recently I had a client hire me, I performed the work and submitted along with "please let me know if you'd like any changes!" and got no reply for 2 weeks. I closed the contract and then a day later he replies with "we need a small change. can you reopen the contract?" Well no, I can't. So he sent me a new offer and I accepted and asked "what changes would you like done?". No reply for another 2 weeks, so I closed the second contract. If he contacts me again, I'm going to refuse. Is it really that hard to be respectful of someone else's time? 

[prestonhunter]

I agree that this client behavior is annoying.

But the good thing is:
You got paid.

This IS better than if you were simply sending invoices to a client and if the client did nothing you never get your money.

Upwork can not guarantee that clients will be polite and respectful.

But Upwork CAN guarantee that if a client does NOTHING, a freelancer gets paid.

[2ef54d61]

The payment isn't the problem (though it is annoying to have to wait 2 extra weeks). It's not knowing if my work was satisfactory or not. I take pride in delivering quality work and if a client isn't happy, I'd much rather them say so so I can make it right than just disappear. Also, it's irritating to get lack of feedback/rating to bolster my profile, especially if I feel like I delivered fantastic results

[prestonhunter]

re: "It's not knowing if my work was satisfactory or not."

You already know that you are providing high-quality work.

If a client doesn't say anything about it, it simply means that the client didn't say anything. That says something about the client's behavior. It is not a commentary on you as a freelancer or on the quality of your work.

[20ddcd67]

I am facing exactly the same problem. I was hired for an hourly rate contract. And the last conversation was like, he will give me feedback on my work. It has been 15 days, I have not got any feedback. In between this, I have send him a reminder message asking about the feedback being professional. But I got no reply. Now I am starting to doubt on my quality of work. Even if that was the quality, they should have replied. Freelancer can do nothing but wait for next 15 days and close this contract voluntarily. But I can not stop being positive. What if they reply me tommorrow? So I keep on checking my upwork inbox when I woke up. No reply and no other clients. This will be so frustrating. I dont know what will happen next. 

[aydoganhavva]

 I was very lucky with the first job I got on Upwork. I had a great employer and I thought it would always be that way. I approached with kindness.
 However, although they said that they were satisfied with the next two jobs, they did not mention it in the feedbacks.
I believe it is not about me, from now on I will wait for the customers to send the first feedback.

[20ddcd67]

Hey Havva! It will feel so bad when you dont get feedback even if they were constantly appreciating your work. It has happened to me as well. I couldn't ask them for feedback. Because it should be at their own will. If they have paid you as mentioned in the contract. That is great.

[aydoganhavva]

Thank you Pabitra. You're kind 🙂

[20ddcd67]

Hey guys! Guess what! I got reply after 15 days. And it was kind of positive. Lessons from this: Wait and Watch, do your best, don't cling on the client too much, don't doubt yourself. 

[allpurposewriter]

Kudos for the chutzpah, Bucko. 

[2e395a62]

Preston, I think - using your metaphor - that if a client comes over for a dinner to my juke joint, and I make him a darn great, soaking, tasty steak, and then he just leaves the ends on the table and leaves the building like Elvis, without a bloody word, the sheer fact that he paid the price still doesn't make up for the feeling that he just robbed me from the joy of hearing "it was delicious, thanks, man!". 

[2ef54d61]

don't forget that the cash he left on the table is in a lockbox that can't be opened for 2 weeks!

[2e395a62]

Sure. Plus the 20% tip for the pub owner 😉

[allpurposewriter]

Preston, Piotr,

As the unholy adjudicator of all things beyond my ken, you are both right. 

However, my most recent experience in this regard left a pretty bad taste in my mouth. The client came on like hell-fire, needed me to put out a series of "need it yesterday" articles, paid very well and was kindly gregarious until the last assignment. At this point, she disappeared like a censored olafactory disturbance in the wind. 

Tis true ... she has no obligation to explain herself, but I know rude when I see it.  In this case, something apparently went amiss and that's life ... but the digital universe has its own codified sense of manners, which is to say hanging up in mid sentence doesn't look the same on Upwork as it does on a telephone, but there's a way to do it if that's your intention. 

I'm also free to misinterpret the body language. She could send a note next week and say, "I came down with Covid, spent the last month on a respirator and felt really horrible about ignoring you.  How large a bonus do you want? I can't wait to give you ten stars on your five-star review."

I guess we'll just have to wait and see.

[prestonhunter]

If I understand it correctly, this thread is about receiving a pat on the back.

A pat in the back is nice.

But receiving a pat on the back is not my primary purpose in working on Upwork.

[20ddcd67]

Haha. Imagine this. 

[allpurposewriter]

Preston,

The last thing I need is a pat on the back. I've been at this too long to have one opinion about my work mean anything at all, good, bad or indifferent. I got a rejection note last week from someone who wanted a memoir ghostwriter and the note said he had gone in another direction and it had nothing to do with my "capabilities" at all. I wrote back and said, "I think my capabilities are intact." After 30 years, I know what I can do and can't do. I'm not here for the compliments. I'm here to put food on the table.

That said, rude is still rude. I have two thoughts on this. One: Upwork draws in a lot of non-publisher, first-time, have-a-dream-in-the-middle-of-the-night publishers, who are doing this for the first time. They are,  pardon the expression, rank amateurs who had a spasm in the shower and think they are instant, overnight publishers. So, they are rude because they don't know what they are doing, mostly.

Second, this is the Internet. It is the ultimate hiding place, a magic show in which people can disappear like the proverbial after-dinner fart. So, consequently, they do. It's just easier. It's easier to forget. It's easier to turn your back on something than confront it. We are virually untraceable on the Internet. So, why spend time writing a polite "no thank you" when it's so much easier just to ignore things?

In other words, they disappear because they can.

[ericaandrews]

As a freelancer, you have a right to 'interview' your client the same way they 'interview' you.  I have a similar communication expectation/need as you do, primarily because the type of work I do (project management and software engineering, usually hourly) literally requires constant input/feedback/communication/information.   If a client simply 'ghosts' during the project that automatically increases the likelihood that my work won't meet expectations/requirements or will be delayed due to lack of information, clarification.  The success of my work literally hinges on the client being 'available' to answer questions, provide access to systems/people/information, provide feedback, review work, provide approvals, etc in real-time and within reasonable time-frames.

I look for RED flags in their 'communication' style during the interview:  "popping" up and wanting to discuss a proposal days after I sent it and forgot about it....Slow responses in chat to simple questions, Incomplete/vague responses, rude/curt responses, 'defensiveness' or 'aloofness' when asking basic questions pertinent to the work, ghosting for hours/days in between questions, knowing limited information about what's really needed,  being LATE for an interview call or a complete "no show" followed by an excuse after the fact, etc.      If I see any of those flags, I send a polite message letting them know that I have limited confidence in the potential success of the project due to our conflicting communicaton styles, thank them for their time, withdraw my proposal, and move on to next client.

I don't want to work with a client that 'ghosts' for 2 weeks after I tell them I need a particular piece of information, access to something, etc. Then have the client pop up 2 week later complaining something isn't "done" that required the very thing I asked for 2 weeks ago.  It creates unnecessary stress  when you have to 'chase' a client around for things needed to get the work done, and you always get blamed no matter how negligent/uninvolved the client is behaving.  I don't bother with it.  Period.

Clients have a right to be selective about who they work with, and freelancers have a right to be selective with who they work with.  I am professional, respectful of others' time, responsive, considerate, and take the work seriously, and I demand the same in return from anyone I work with.

[fodzsolt]

I just had a really bad experience.

I applied for a translation job in last December. The client responded well, sent me the file to translate, stating he doesn't have a budget limit nor a strict deadline, although he asked for a fixed budget, which I sent him. 

I thought he was fine with it, and after waiting a week, I started the translation (fortunately, I didn't work too hard on it) in good faith. I was stupid, but I had clients who did this before, but they came back and paid for the job.

Now, this guy, he didn't.

I was done with the translation in January, that's the first time I messaged him about a contract or even if he agreed with the price. Well, he didn't respond. I even asked upwork support to get to him, with no luck.

Months were going by and I'm not that foolish, so I thought maybe the site I was translating have some info on him. I even though he might have caught COVID or something worse...

He wasn't sick, and when I contacted the  **Edited for Community Guidelines**support, I got his email address. I wrote a letter, I wasn't harsh or anything, but no response. After that, I wrote to the simple info@ address, and it seems he got annoyed...

As you can see, it was two emails from me, and a few message via UpWork (with weeks between them), but after three months, at least I got a reply! 

Firstly, he threatened to report me to the UpWork admins for "harassing" him. He told me, that the price was too high, so 'they' decided not to go forward with the localization to the target language...

And it took him THREE months to tell me, rather than writing back to me right after I sent him the budget. Which, as always, could have been negotiated with reasonable limits. I checked his history, and I have to say, I saw he found people who translated over 30,000 words for $280 which is way under the 'industry standard' in any language.

Nonetheless, it was a great experience how not to make a deal on UpWork... And don't get me started on the copytyping scams which appear by the dozen in my feed.

Also, I have a full crypto casino translation (Hungarian) for sale, so if you want to set foot in the Hungarian gambling market, let me know. 😄 You only have to change the casino name in the sheet XD

[martina_plaschka]

Contacting a client outside of upwork can get you suspended, and frankly, it should. Completely unacceptable. Your second mistake is working without a contract. 

And you post all this in a thread about rude clients? What you did is a lot worse. 

You are very lucky to keep your profile. 

[fodzsolt]

Of course, the CLIENT can do whatever he/she wants.

But if I get suspended or lose my account because of this, I will fight hard to get it back. I worked very hard for the last seven years to build up my profile, and I'm not going to lose my best clients because of some fool who can't even tell that he doesn't want to spend that much on that particular project. Three months is a long time, and I went through all the official ways to at least get half an answer, so you can judge me, you can even report me if you want. I'm aware of my mistakes, but it won't change the fact, that the blame is on both parties in this matter. 

Also...

what about contacting the copytyping scammers outside UpWork? Is that acceptable? Unfortunately, UpWork  **Edited for Community Guidelines**, and these scams are all over the place. Heck, UpWork even makes money from these, because some naive freelancers might even waste their connects on these job posts, and then buy some more... I like, however sometimes, wasting their time and see them struggle to convince me to buy the $40 premium ID card so I can make $3000 in 3 days. I even have the COVID-study they use for the scam bookmarked, so I don't have to search for it again.

[martina_plaschka]

Scammers lose their accounts too, what are you even saying?

You need to be better aware of the ToS. If the client hasn't complained formally to upwork, you will not lose your account. 

Maybe educate yourself better what you can and can't do?

[gilbert-phyllis]

Most days I use up my appallment tokens by the time I've read the morning paper and have none left for clients. Which works out well for me because it helps me remember what I want and need from clients is courtesy, respect, and money, not necessarily in that order. It's typically more enjoyable working with clients who are cordial and communicative. But I don't take it personally when they are not. After doing this for a zillion years, I've learned to screen out the real louts at the beginning--the ones who are fundamentally disrespectful and unpleasant--and thankfully, I can afford to be selective in that regard. It wasn't always the case, and I guess that's how I learned to keep in mind that clients are not friends and as long as they bring the money and don't bad-mouth me for some reason, it's a win.

[martina_plaschka]

I've never even given it a thought. 

[roberty1y]

It saves time if a client doesn't contact you and you don't feel obliged to reply out of courtesy. The only thing that bothers me is when they just disappear once the job is finished and don't leave any feedback. That's when I put a curse on them, ensuring they end up hiring only the most clueless and incompetent freelancers from that day on.

[moonraker]

I've had clients ghost on me. I've also had potential clients ghost on me despite having made an appointment for an interview. No notification they can't make it. No apology... nothing.

It's irritating, granted. And I spend a short time feeling irritated - until I realize I have far more productive things to be doing.

It happens, just move on.