Gurus and such

[mwiggenhorn]

Can someone explain to me why people keep on posting and posting in the forums, apparently to become a "Guru"?  Seriously - I just don't get it and I would love to understand the psychology behind it.

[petra_r]

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@Mary W wrote:

Can someone explain to me why people keep on posting and posting in the forums, apparently to become a "Guru"?  Seriously - I just don't get it and I would love to understand the psychology behind it.

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 I know who you mean. He wants a T-Shirt... or do some more "workshops."

Or maybe just desperate for attention. I suspect a psychiatrist is needed for the underlying causes.

[gilbert-phyllis]

Somebody seems to have gotten the idea they can boost their own stock by achieving recognition in the forum, and the idea spread somewhat. I've seen scattered posts in recent months to that effect, e.g. the one that asked whether or not it was kosher to request kudos. (!)  I've assumed it is the segment of UW users (or a sub-set of those) who come in seeking ways to game the system, instead of plying their trade and building their business. 

I hadn't paid much attention until the past few days. A particular individual is now posting more or less daily, IMO pretty transparent attempts to draw traffic (as opposed to engage in authentic discussion and/or seek information). And the particular discussions have suggested a near-complete lack of understanding about freelancing and about what it takes to succeed on UW.

Personally, I am resolving to ignore all such posts from now on.

[mwiggenhorn]

I have actually seen a profile or two that mention forum ranks...

[petra_r]

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@Mary W wrote:

I have actually seen a profile or two that mention forum ranks...

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 you've gotta be KIDDING?

[versailles]

Somebody let the cat out of the bag and now they know that when you have the Guru tag, your JSS cannot go below 90% and you show on the top of all search pages. Plus, your proposals are on the top of the list of the applicants.

I wish it would remain a secret.

[mtngigi]

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@Rene K wrote:

Somebody let the cat out of the bag and now they know that when you have the Guru tag, your JSS cannot go below 90% and you show on the top of all search pages. Plus, your proposals are on the top of the list of the applicants.

I wish it would remain a secret.

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 There you go, blaming the cats again. 🙂

[renata101]

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@Phyllis G wrote:

Somebody seems to have gotten the idea they can boost their own stock by achieving recognition in the forum, and the idea spread somewhat. I've seen scattered posts in recent months to that effect, e.g. the one that asked whether or not it was kosher to request kudos. (!) 

 This seems weird to me. I've always thought that the only real requirement for getting a spot on the leader board most days was the ability complain in a particularly interesting  way. Absurdist humour may also help, but really, having a particularly poignant, heartfelt, eloquent gripe about a platform glitch or a popularly annoying feature at least once a week is what ensures success. You'd think that would just come naturally to most people. 

[gilbert-phyllis]

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@Renata S wrote:

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@Phyllis G wrote:

Somebody seems to have gotten the idea they can boost their own stock by achieving recognition in the forum, and the idea spread somewhat. I've seen scattered posts in recent months to that effect, e.g. the one that asked whether or not it was kosher to request kudos. (!) 

 This seems weird to me. I've always thought that the only real requirement for getting a spot on the leader board most days was the ability complain in a particularly interesting  way. Absurdist humour may also help, but really, having a particularly poignant, heartfelt, eloquent gripe about a platform glitch or a popularly annoying feature at least once a week is what ensures success. You'd think that would just come naturally to most people. 

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Agree!

I suspect there are some cultural dissonances in play that prevent the "players" from sussing out how to game the forum the way they intend.

Honestly, I never even paid attention to the UW-assigned honorifics or the leader board, until I happened to notice someone accusing someone else of trying to become a guru. 

Another weird thing: I occasionally get private messages from FLs seeking help with random issues. Usually, the English is so fractured that I can't even tell what they are asking. I politely tell them I don't work here and refer them to CS. If they persist (as one did), I block them. I assume other frequent contributors here experience the same.

[renata101]

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@Phyllis G wrote:

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Agree!

I suspect there are some cultural dissonances in play that prevent the "players" from sussing out how to game the forum the way they intend.

Honestly, I never even paid attention to the UW-assigned honorifics or the leader board, until I happened to notice someone accusing someone else of trying to become a guru. 

Another weird thing: I occasionally get private messages from FLs seeking help with random issues. Usually, the English is so fractured that I can't even tell what they are asking. I politely tell them I don't work here and refer them to CS. If they persist (as one did), I block them. I assume other frequent contributors here experience the same.

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I've only had one of the PMs you mention.  Maybe they assume I'm Italian?  Or maybe it's just all that complaining? I've generally tried to avoid becoming a solutions author because I thought it might have the effect you're describing. Like most people, I'm better at complaining about it than solving it.

I do get calls from the marmots from time to time.  They generally want cryptocurrency investment advice and insights on what to do about their relationships.

[renata101]

I can still recall the day of my enlightenment. 

I was on Pandora's Crazy Jobs II thread contemplating the requirements for a job creating sound effects for a video game. The client needed sounds for a marmot planning, a marmot waving and a marmot tapping his toe.

This struck me  as a bit like contemplating a Zen koan: What is the sound of a marmot waving, planning and tapping his toe?

Immediately after posting about it, I achieved guru status. It might have had other cosmic cause-and-effects fallout that I wasn't able to track. I know when I posted the realization that I had just become a guru while contempating this question, the post caused Pandora to spray the whiskey she was drinking all over her keyboard. I'm not sure if that could have been the start of any sort of cosmic chain reaction (I have to admit, I'm not that well versed on chaos theory, although I have read The Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy). 

Other than that, I don't think life has been noticeably different after becoming a guru. 

[jmlaidlaw]

Marmots aside, it is clear to me that certain individuals -- most particularly those who respond to others' queries with pompous blather and even official, green-colored links -- must be laboring under the delusion belief that they will be noticed by the powers that be and will be "promoted" from mere forum contributor to Upwork employee... remuneration to follow!

The strategy seems to be that if these individuals present themselves as if they were Moderators (i.e., with official-looking responses, regardless of the accuracy of the content), then they will somehow magically be plucked from the herd and granted true (and paid) "Moderator" status by Upwork. They are, in effect, trying out for the job they want and that they mistakenly believe that they are qualified to do.

(Of course, to the practiced eye, these wannabes tend to look as silly as a four-year-old who is dragging about in Mommy's high heels. But they don't get that, any more than they "get" that their English is not nearly as fluent as they believe it to be, nor their officious-sounding responses as accurate as they believe them to be.)

[mthornton-cpc]

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@Janean L wrote:

(Of course, to the practiced eye, these wannabes tend to look as silly as a four-year-old who is dragging about in Mommy's high heels. But they don't get that, any more than they "get" that their English is not nearly as fluent as they believe it to be, nor their officious-sounding responses as accurate as they believe them to be.)

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Boy, this couldn't be more true. "Hi dears..." with green links is often the magic combination for inanity.  

Personally, when a guru-wannabe posts flat-out inaccuracy and Petra responds with a chart I am filled with a specific kind of joy. 

[boshoffirene]

Much chuckling was done while reading this thread and sipping the first cuppa java. The dog looks at me as if saying...hey...lemme in onnit! And the cat just stares outa the window at the birds...you know...the usual.

[moutcom]

Hello folks,

i missed you ALL and your topics ^^

Now i see a lot happend since my last visit -funny postings and even a closed thread (!!) .... ts ts ts

So now, if i post more, would i have moooore work -which i couldn't handle btw but i could open an agency-, and became famous as a guru ?!?

[renata101]

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@Moutacim L wrote:

Hello folks,

i missed you ALL and your topics ^^

Now i see a lot happend since my last visit -funny postings and even a closed thread (!!) .... ts ts ts

So now, if i post more, would i have moooore work -which i couldn't handle btw but i could open an agency-, and became famous as a guru ?!?

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 Moutacim, 

Not to pressure you or anything, but you haven't been keeping up with your postings! My god!  What are you doing taking time off at this point! If you want to become a guru, according to my calculations, you're going to have to come up with 62 entralling complaints. Or else, you might have to find a group of small furry animals that need to adopt a human helper for those things you need opposable thumbs to do.  That's the only way to become a guru.  This is no time to relax!

[reinierb]

I need advice from gurus that have been gurus for longer than I have been a guru. 

Here is the problem; I have yet to receive private messages from random newbies asking me stuff. What am I doing wrong?

I have however, received private messages from other gurus about all sorts of issues, but those don't count.  

[mthornton-cpc]

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@Reinier B wrote:

I need advice from gurus that have been gurus for longer than I have been a guru. 

Here is the problem; I have yet to receive private messages from random newbies asking me stuff. What am I doing wrong?

I have however, received private messages from other gurus about all sorts of issues, but those don't count.  

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Methinks you might be too male, Reinier. I've noticed that the folks (including myself) who get the insistent PMs from noobs tend to be women. Anecdotal evidence, surely, but it could shed some light. 

[mwiggenhorn]

The only time I ever got persistant and annoying PMs was when I was the featured freelancer (for what seemed like months and months).  Never outside of that.

[jcullinan]

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@Melissa T wrote:

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@Reinier B wrote:

I need advice from gurus that have been gurus for longer than I have been a guru. 

Here is the problem; I have yet to receive private messages from random newbies asking me stuff. What am I doing wrong?

I have however, received private messages from other gurus about all sorts of issues, but those don't count.  

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Methinks you might be too male, Reinier. I've noticed that the folks (including myself) who get the insistent PMs from noobs tend to be women. Anecdotal evidence, surely, but it could shed some light. 

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Wouldn't surprise me in the least. I've only gotten a few of these PMs, but they've had a couple things in common:

1. All from dudes with very poor English (and very poor social skills)

2. Begging for my help while patronizing me (usually accompanied by an "oh, my dearest," GROSS)

3. Issues that not even Moderators would be able to fix

Ka-block. I usually don't even bother to reply because I assume they're spamming a hundred other users at the same time.

[versailles]

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@Jess C wrote:

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1. All from dudes with very poor English (and very poor social skills)

2. Begging for my help while patronizing me (usually accompanied by an "oh, my dearest," GROSS)

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I would say that all this boils down to poor English. Many things can get lost in translation, but also many things can slip in that were not present in the mind of the writer. Especially the dear/dearest thing that you often notice in some Asians. I think this is the typical case of words that may be appropriate in their language and that they simply translate into English. Or a Google Translation mistake that they can't see.

I'm helping English speakers learn French and French speakers learning English and I notice this happening all the time in beginners.

I had to stop an American once because she wouldn't stop saying Je te aime (a misspelled version of I love you) in French because she thought it meant J'aime (I love). 

She was pretty, but in the context it wasn't the point. 😀

[renata101]

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@Rene K wrote:

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@Jess C wrote:

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1. All from dudes with very poor English (and very poor social skills)

2. Begging for my help while patronizing me (usually accompanied by an "oh, my dearest," GROSS)

---

I would say that all this boils down to poor English. Many things can get lost in translation, but also many things can slip in that were not present in the mind of the writer. Especially the dear/dearest thing that you often notice in some Asians. I think this is the typical case of words that may be appropriate in their language and that they simply translate into English. Or a Google Translation mistake that they can't see.

I'm helping English speakers learn French and French speakers learning English and I notice this happening all the time in beginners.

I had to stop an American once because she wouldn't stop saying Je te aime (a misspelled version of I love you) in French because she thought it meant J'aime (I love). 

She was pretty, but in the context it wasn't the point. 😀

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I'll explain what I think is going wrong with Asians and the word "dear."

In English, it's a common convention to start letters with "Dear."  It's probably fairly archaic use but we still do it in everyday practice (for example, "Dear Sir or Madam"). I think many people in Asia may get the idea that "Dear" is an honorific, something you use when you want to convey respect. What they don't understand is that "dear" can also be used as a term of endearment, at least by older adults. 

There's probably a cultural logic behind it that gets lost in the translation because Westerners don't use honorifics in casual communication such as forum posts or everyday conversations (not to mention that the North American standard for communication in certain business sectors is fairly casual -- much more so than many other countries). So it may be a mistranslation of a cultural application that they have and we don't, rather than simply a misunderstanding of the word "dear." 

An example would be the use of the word "sensei" (teacher) in Japan. Teachers are highly respected in Japan and students will always use the word "sensai" after your name when they speak to you. If I had a French teacher in North America, I might just call him René. But If I was a Japanese student studying French in Japan, he would always be called "René Sensei."  You also use this word when you're talking to your karate or judo instructor for obvious reasons. 

Of course, I'm not in any way implying that the other thing people are interpreting this as is not also going on...  Just that if someone calls you "dear" in an unexplained context, there might be something else happening.

[renata101]

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@Reinier B wrote:

I need advice from gurus that have been gurus for longer than I have been a guru. 

Here is the problem; I have yet to receive private messages from random newbies asking me stuff. What am I doing wrong?

I have however, received private messages from other gurus about all sorts of issues, but those don't count.  

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You want P&A (persistent and annoying) PMs? There are more satisfying ways to feel needed, Reinier.  But just for the thought experiment, I'm going try to analyze what's happening with Phyllis.

I can see Phyllis's problem right away. She's got  that "universal friendliness" thing going on big time - like the Dalai Lama. Just looking at her makes me want to send her P&A PMs about my recent JSS score decline and the fact my clients have given me nothing but five star ratings since time began.  

With Mary, I think she might have found herself saying, "Well, bless his heart" about 30 - 80 times a day while she was Featured Contributor. This expression is generally lost on anyone who without a firm grasp of Southern US English and since there's no way to convey voice tone on the platform,  the situation likely escalated.  

[versailles]

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@Renata S wrote:

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With Mary, I think she might have found herself saying, "Well, bless his heart" about 30 - 80 times a day. This expression is generally lost on anyone who without a firm grasp of Southern US English 

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Megalol 😀

So **bleep** true!

[gilbert-phyllis]

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@Renata S wrote:

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@Reinier B wrote:

I need advice from gurus that have been gurus for longer than I have been a guru. 

Here is the problem; I have yet to receive private messages from random newbies asking me stuff. What am I doing wrong?

I have however, received private messages from other gurus about all sorts of issues, but those don't count.  

---

You want P&A (persistent and annoying) PMs? There are more satisfying ways to feel needed, Reinier.  But just for the thought experiment, I'm going try to analyze what's happening with Phyllis.

I can see Phyllis's problem right away. She's got  that "universal friendliness" thing going on big time - like the Dalai Lama. Just looking at her makes me want to send her P&A PMs about my recent JSS score decline and the fact my clients have given me nothing but five star ratings since time began.  

With Mary, I think she might have found herself saying, "Well, bless his heart" about 30 - 80 times a day while she was Featured Contributor. This expression is generally lost on anyone who without a firm grasp of Southern US English and since there's no way to convey voice tone on the platform,  the situation likely escalated.  

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 Ha. Glad my concerted effort to cultivate a congenial persona is working! What I really long for is for UW to institute a licensing system for new FLs whereby anyone who can't pass a reasonably rigorous quiz about the fundamentals of UW is not allowed to submit proposals (or whine in the forum, especially about how to get paid for work performed with no contract).

Now, let's go off on a tangent... Some time back, I switched my profile to "Upwork Users Only" thinking that anyone signed onto UW can see it. Is that not the case? It is not my intention that it appear "Private" as it does in the screenshot above.

[jcullinan]

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@Phyllis G wrote:

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Now, let's go off on a tangent... Some time back, I switched my profile to "Upwork Users Only" thinking that anyone signed onto UW can see it. Is that not the case? It is not my intention that it appear "Private" as it does in the screenshot above.

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Known glitch - it will show as "private" from the Community, but you can be searched on the main site.

[versailles]

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@Reinier B wrote:

Here is the problem; I have yet to receive private messages from random newbies asking me stuff. What am I doing wrong?

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Because you're the grumpy mechanic. They don't dare.

[reinierb]

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@Rene K wrote:

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@Reinier B wrote:

Here is the problem; I have yet to receive private messages from random newbies asking me stuff. What am I doing wrong?

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Because you're the grumpy mechanic. They don't dare.

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 Grumpy? Me? Never!

[moutcom]

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@Renata S wrote:

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@Moutacim L wrote:

Hello folks,

i missed you ALL and your topics ^^

Now i see a lot happend since my last visit -funny postings and even a closed thread (!!) .... ts ts ts

So now, if i post more, would i have moooore work -which i couldn't handle btw but i could open an agency-, and became famous as a guru ?!?

---

 Moutacim, 

Not to pressure you or anything, but you haven't been keeping up with your postings! My god!  What are you doing taking time off at this point! If you want to become a guru, according to my calculations, you're going to have to come up with 62 entralling complaints. Or else, you might have to find a group of small furry animals that need to adopt a human helper for those things you need opposable thumbs to do.  That's the only way to become a guru.  This is no time to relax!

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Yeah Renata, i missed you 2 !

and found 'em :

 

[moutcom]

I just saw that i my profile changed to a (Community)Leader ...

[wendy_writes]

@ Melissa, to avoid those pesky PMs develop a bit of sarcasm or snark. I very rarely get unsolicited (i.e., begging and pleading) messages.  😉

[mthornton-cpc]

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@Wendy C wrote:

@ Melissa, to avoid those pesky PMs develop a bit of sarcasm or snark. I very rarely get unsolicited (i.e., begging and pleading) messages.  😉

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Wendy, I minored in snark in college. I often find myself feeling like I need to rein it in a bit! 

[luce-neidert]

Oh, my God! Just noticed that I had become a COMMUNITY  GURU! I was just wondering whether me, a simple human being, would be allowed to participate to this thread, which seems to be like a giant Guru party and - miracle - here I am, I've become one of you!!!

[wendy_writes]

Melissa,  sometimes snark is so subtle people fail to reconize it .....  LOL

[renata101]

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@Luce N wrote:

Oh, my God! Just noticed that I had become a COMMUNITY  GURU! I was just wondering whether me, a simple human being, would be allowed to participate to this thread, which seems to be like a giant Guru party and - miracle - here I am, I've become one of you!!!

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Luce, do you feel any different? Are you aware of any unusal changes in your demeanor? You might notice that you have a faint glow or an aura about you.

Also, you might notice that you're feeling, well, snarkier... It's okay. You'll get used to that. 

[luce-neidert]

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@Renata S wrote:

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@Luce N wrote:

Oh, my God! Just noticed that I had become a COMMUNITY  GURU! I was just wondering whether me, a simple human being, would be allowed to participate to this thread, which seems to be like a giant Guru party and - miracle - here I am, I've become one of you!!!

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Luce, do you feel any different? Are you aware of any unusal changes in your demeanor? You might notice that you have a faint glow or an aura about you.

Also, you might notice that you're feeling, well, snarkier... It's okay. You'll get used to that. 

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 Renata, I haven't had the time to add that info to my profile yet, but will certainly add it to my proposals, I'm sure it will help. 

Hope to get weird PM's, but haven't noticed the faint glow yet. Too busy at the moment!