🐈
» Forums » Coffee Break » Something about nothing
Page options
richardsmith94
Community Member

Something about nothing

So, I see a job I was thinking about applying for, I click on it, read the (scant) details and then scroll down to feedback....Hello, there's been a spat. On his last job he's given the freelancer 1 star, she, in return has given him 1 star and they've both left comments complaining about each other.

 

I'm intrigued now and click on the freelancer's profile to see what that has done to their JSS. 100%. Jobs in progress 27, money earnt $300k+, hours worked 25,000, hourly rate $8 ("Alexa, how many years is 25,000 hours?" "you must be very bored Richard, it's 3 years"). Okey dokey, so, working an 8 hour day, this person has (approximately) completed 9 years worth of work via the site.

 

Now I'm (sadly) really, really interested at how successful this person has been, because, you know, it's inspirational stuff for an aspiring freelancer, maybe I can learn something...scroll a bit, scroll a bit, bit more...then I see some feedback on a job and it refers to a company, a team of people and not what they wanted. One Google search later and this company 'specializes in delivering a wide range of technology solutions'. 

 

I'm not posting for answers, or because I'm annoyed at all, I just found it all interesting. But it seems very odd (even ignoring their JSS score), that a) this is not actually one person and b) they can have stats and figures assigned to them, which presumably, are figures actually accrued by the company that they work for? 

 

Maybe somebody else feels like typing a few words on a computer screen in reply 🙂

 

 

29 REPLIES 29
sergio-soria
Community Member

You mean it's a "personal" profile but used by several people inside a company? Weird. Isn't it?

Richard, flag the profile and explain the discrepancies.

Once again, an agency posing as a freelancer.  Flag the profile saying exactly that.  I probably flag 10 of these in a couple of weeks.

 


Mary W wrote:

Once again, an agency posing as a freelancer.

Some even have the nerve to place "we" sentences right in their profile. Good grief!

Richard, flag the profile and explain the discrepancies.

 

Hi Wendy. No idea how to flag the profile and maybe this sort of thing is all ok with the site if it makes it money so I'm not looking to make an issue where there isn't one?! If others on here, that know better than me can advise that this is against Upwork's TOS, more than happy to take it further.

versailles
Community Member

 

User Agreement
Effective June 5, 2019

 

2.1 RELATIONSHIP WITH UPWORK

(...)

(vii) (...) Freelancers are free to use subcontractors or employees to perform Freelancer Services and may delegate work on fixed-price contracts or by agreeing with their Clients to have hourly contracts for Freelancer’s subcontractor(s) or employee(s). If a Freelancer uses subcontractors or employees, Freelancer further agrees and acknowledges that this paragraph applies to Upwork’s relationship, if any, with Freelancer’s subcontractors and employees as well and Freelancer is solely responsible for Freelancer’s subcontractors and employees.

(...)

 

-----------
"Where darkness shines like dazzling light"   —William Ashbless

2.1 RELATIONSHIP WITH UPWORK

(...)

(vii) (...) Freelancers are free to use subcontractors or employees to perform Freelancer Services and may delegate work on fixed-price contracts or by agreeing with their Clients to have hourly contracts for Freelancer’s subcontractor(s) or employee(s). If a Freelancer uses subcontractors or employees, Freelancer further agrees and acknowledges that this paragraph applies to Upwork’s relationship, if any, with Freelancer’s subcontractors and employees as well and Freelancer is solely responsible for Freelancer’s subcontractors and employees

 

Rene, I don't think that covers the issue here, this is a freelancer purporting to work as an individual, but actually works for a company, not a company delegating work to an individual(s) unless I'm missing something.


Richard S wrote:

2.1 RELATIONSHIP WITH UPWORK

(...)

(vii) (...) Freelancers are free to use subcontractors or employees to perform Freelancer Services and may delegate work on fixed-price contracts or by agreeing with their Clients to have hourly contracts for Freelancer’s subcontractor(s) or employee(s). If a Freelancer uses subcontractors or employees, Freelancer further agrees and acknowledges that this paragraph applies to Upwork’s relationship, if any, with Freelancer’s subcontractors and employees as well and Freelancer is solely responsible for Freelancer’s subcontractors and employees

 

Rene, I don't think that covers the issue here, this is a freelancer purporting to work as an individual, but actually works for a company, not a company delegating work to an individual(s) unless I'm missing something.


I think that you and others are missing the part of the user agreement that I quoted. There is nothing to report here. Freelancers are allowed to subcontract. Period.

 

 

-----------
"Where darkness shines like dazzling light"   —William Ashbless

I think that you and others are missing the part of the user agreement that I quoted. There is nothing to report here. Freelancers are allowed to subcontract. Period.

 

*Sighs* Yes Rene, but are they able to just clearly and deliberately give the impression that they are working as an individual, when clearly they are not?


Richard S wrote:

I think that you and others are missing the part of the user agreement that I quoted. There is nothing to report here. Freelancers are allowed to subcontract. Period.

 

*Sighs* Yes Rene, but are they able to just clearly and deliberately give the impression that they are working as an individual, when clearly they are not?


There is nothing as far as I know in the user agreement that says that they have to disclose on their profile that they are subcontracting, or may subcontract. As a consequence, while you can flag the profile as much as you want, this won't trigger any action from Upwork.

 

 

 

-----------
"Where darkness shines like dazzling light"   —William Ashbless

Rene is right. They are allowed to subcontract and I doubt Upwork will kill an account that's made $300k over something like this. Don't even waste your time. 

 

They have a high volume farmer from Elance who made $3 million + that does this too and she has no agency either. She actually said they told her to remove the agency and just farm out on her main profile. Upwork doesn't care if someone is making bank.

Thank you, Jennifer for your solid response.

 

Richard, I was about to ask you,

You said the FL had a spat with a client. Is it your spat?

Does Do you have proof that the freelancer is not actually the one doing the work?

Did the client involved in the spat tell you he doesn't know how to report a freelancer to Upwork?

 

It is possible the FL did not fully disclose how he goes about completing his projects. This is not the same thing as scam, the last I checked. Do you know if the FL also owns the company?

Just FYI, whenever you see the words "full-stack", "chief", "manager", "consultant" or similar next to a freelancer's title, the likelihood exists the freelancer didn't do all the tasks by himself. The percentage of tasks the FL is actually completing by himself makes the difference between "farmer", project manager, agency and freelancer.

Just so when you finally see the Upwork FL that has 3 million USD in earnings on his profile, you don't go about dreaming that that was his take-home pay.

For avoidance of doubt, note that I'm not endorsing farming or any of the above. I work as a freelancer, and complete my projects myself (you can check my profile since you were curious {set to Upwork users only} ).

 

Just saying why I maintain, just like your title says, that this is quite some ado about nothing.

 

There is nothing as far as I know in the user agreement that says that they have to disclose on their profile that they are subcontracting, or may subcontract. As a consequence, while you can flag the profile as much as you want, this won't trigger any action from Upwork.

 

Thank you Rene .As I explained in my initial post, this wasn't about my being annoyed, wanting to flag them etc (although the more you tell me that what they are doing is apparently ok, the more inclined I am to raise it), simply something that I thought was worthy of discussion. I have to say though (again) that they are not subcontracting (unless the profile is a misleading cover for the Agency involved), but an individual the work is being sub-contracted to. Either way, it dosn't sit right.

 

allpurposewriter
Community Member

So, OK, Richard -- 25,000 hours worked times $8 per hour is $200,000, right on the nose, not $300,000 -- that's my first thought.

Secondly ... what kind of company makes a profit charging $8 an hour ... which means they have to have overhead and whatever (whatever means expenses) and that makes their take less than $8 an hour? What services do this guys provide where they can make a profit at $8 per hour? Is this a service where people look out the window for you? That's about half the minimum wage last I knew. 

Furthermore, they get one-star reviews and have a job success rating of 100 percent? Did I catch that right?

In other words, nothing adds up here. Then did you write, "They can have their stats assigned to them?" 

OK, without being too crude here, WTF is going on? And what service do they provide? Am I being underbid by companies earning $8 per hour? That doesn't add up either. What am I missing here?



Anthony H wrote:


Furthermore, they get one-star reviews and have a job success rating of 100 percent? Did I catch that right?


More contracts one has under their belt, less the JSS varies. It the present case, one isolated bad outcome won't make it move.

 

 

-----------
"Where darkness shines like dazzling light"   —William Ashbless

Hi Rene, this 'person' has plenty of 4 star reviews under their belt too and yet no impact on their JSS.

 


Richard S wrote:

Hi Rene, this 'person' has plenty of 4 star reviews under their belt too and yet no impact on their JSS.

 


How old are the 4 stars? Also stars are nice, but there are other factors that weight into the JSS, for instance long contracts and returning clients.

 

Your Job Success Score on Upwork

 

 

-----------
"Where darkness shines like dazzling light"   —William Ashbless


Anthony H wrote:

So, OK, Richard -- 25,000 hours worked times $8 per hour is $200,000, right on the nose, not $300,000 -- that's my first thought.


The hours only count for hourly projects, so they must have $100k+ in escrow jobs.

Richard, as has been explained .... a FL is EITHER independent or affiliated with an agency - or, in the case you're  pointing out, a farmer.

 

If is AGAINST ToS to masquerade as an independent FL if with an agency .. and far more unsavory and against ToS if doing do so as a farmer.

 

Report the dang profile.  It probably won't do any good but at least you did the right thing.

Wendy, I explained that I didn't know how to 'flag' it, anyway worked it out now and done. Thanks to everyone that took the time to reply.

You're right.

This post is actually something about nothing.

Richard, In my honest opinion, I'd suggest you mind your Upwork business and leave the dang profile alone!

This is not the FL preventing you from making it on Upwork.

 


Abinadab A wrote:

Richard, In my honest opinion, I'd suggest you mind your Upwork business and leave the dang profile alone!

This is not the FL preventing you from making it on Upwork.

 


Scamming freelancers reflect badly on Upwork as a whole and IMO, should definitely be reported. Therefore, Richard IS minding his business. 


Christine A wrote:

Scamming freelancers reflect badly on Upwork as a whole and IMO, should definitely be reported. Therefore, Richard IS minding his business. 


I don't think any freelancer successfully scammed clients, on Upwork, to the tune of $300k.

I don't think any freelancer successfully scammed clients, on Upwork, to the tune of $300k.

 

Abinadab, do you want to explain ( in more than 10 words) how someone purporting to be here as an individual freelancer, but actually be working for a company, is not misleading or scamming clients? **edited for Community Guidelines** just interested why you've told me 'to mind my own freelancer business'. Why, does this cause a problem for you?


Richard S wrote:

I don't think any freelancer successfully scammed clients, on Upwork, to the tune of $300k.

 

Abinadab, do you want to explain ( in more than 10 words) ...


No, I don't want. I don't work well in word limits. I like to be curt or verbose as need is.

Excellent.

Richard, In my honest opinion, I'd suggest you mind your Upwork business and leave the dang profile alone!

This is not the FL preventing you from making it on Upwork.

 

Hey, thanks for taking the danging time to reply out of your busy day and for completely misunderstanding why I decided to post.   

lucioric
Community Member

Yeah, really I don't know how he did. After a year working here, some times are good, bot some times one gets dissapointed of that the clients appear to have vanished. When you could't complete the job is a relief, but when you completed it that situation is a nuisance, and you have to control your impulse to pick up new jobs, because if one have much jobs at a time, one risks not delivering on time in none of the projects. But yes, it is unavoidable to think that the clients are in a summer vacation, one wondering when earnings will suffice for a simple day in the beach.

Latest Articles
Upcoming Events
Jun 25
Crafting Your Compelling Story
Talent Toolbox English
Learning Paths