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saidurhira
Community Member

A client is trying to manipulate escrow system and feedback mechanism. What can Upwork do for me?

I have been a top-rated freelancer on Upwork for many years now. It has been an amazing journey so far, with only two or three occasions where I received 4+ stars from my clients, all the rest was 5 stars.

In all honesty, I'm not saying this to brag but to clarify my situation. I always go the extra mile for my clients in order to earn five-star reviews. But unfortunately, one of my recent clients appears to be manipulating me in this matter.

Please allow me to give a brief overview of the whole matter. Two months ago, I bid on a simple article writing job. The client's budget per article was $30. Considering it was a long-term project and he was a new user on Upwork, I offered him a competitive rate of $20 per article.

The client is from China. Upon completing the hiring process, he asked if I could speak Chinese and also said that he had trouble communicating in English. The job description did not mention this, so I became a little confused. Nevertheless, I decided to do my best to make his first Upwork project enjoyable for him.

During our conversation, I assured him that he can type in Chinese language if he wishes, and that I will interpret his message using Google translate. His next request was even more bizarre. His niche, he said, lacks enough information on the web. His preference was that he would write the articles in Chinese first and then I would convert them into properly written English articles (editing, proofreading included). There was no mention of it in his job description. In spite of that, I wanted to assist him. So, we decided ... after I received the Chinese texts, I would first translate them via Google Translate and then rewrite and edit them in English.

From the beginning, he displayed stubbornness. He would never listen to any of my requests, nor would he oppose them. No explanation was offered either. He would simply give orders as if he were trying to establish a master-slave relationship between himself and the freelancer he hired.

My plan was to write 10 articles for him, complete my first milestone, and then request that the contract be terminated by mutual consent.

Once I gave him the first eight articles, he stopped responding to my messages. However, my service appears to have pleased him, as he explicitly mentioned it. Additionally, I offered him unlimited revisions. Whenever I sent him a completed article, I would ask him if he needed any revisions. Never once did he ask me to do this.

After he stopped communicating with me, I sent him several messages asking if he needed anything from me or if he could give me a rough estimate of when I can expect to receive the next batch of articles from him so that we can close out the contract quickly. I eventually sent him a message telling him I would contact Upwork support if he didn't respond.

That did the trick and he eventually responded and said that he would like to pay half of what he paid for the articles before (which would be $10 per article). I was surprised by the low payment given the difficulty of the task. Due to the arduous nature of the work (translation, editing, checking technical terms, etc.) I asked for a rethink. He simply refused to do so.

Even so, I was still interested in finishing the first milestone and ultimately wrapping up the contract. Thus, I requested him to terminate the existing contract first, and create a new contract with a new payment structure. He refused to do so as well and told me I had to create the contract myself. I created a new contract and asked him to terminate the previous contract as soon as the due payment was released.

Then, to my surprise, he paid $100 for 8 articles. It does not fall under either the $20 per article or the $10 per article rates. Again, I was confused, so I politely asked how the payment rate was calculated and if a small bonus could be added just to make it more aligned with the original contract terms. After another terse refusal, he gave me the order to return to work.

This is the first time I've had a client break contract terms like this while still being so stubborn. After a few days, he did add a $20 bonus to the previous contract. Maybe out of remorse?!

On the other hand, if I wanted to maintain my 100% job success rate, I had no choice but to begin working on the new project since it was already in progress. My hope was that somehow, by the end of the next batch of articles (10 in total), I would manage to end the contract on a positive note. As of now, I have given him seven articles under the new contract. He has now stopped responding again, just like before. He may be contemplating a similar move to the one he did previously. I haven't heard from him for more than a week now.

I know Upwork's escrow and feedback system ensures quality for both clients and freelancers. But there will always be some people who will try to manipulate the system. My question now is, can Upwork help handle situations like this better? Would Upwork be able to help me get rid of this extremely cunning individual without hurting my JSS score?

17 REPLIES 17
a_lipsey
Community Member

Close the contract. If his review drops your JSS below 90%, then you can use your perk to remove it. But wait to see what impact it has. 

feed_my_eyes
Community Member


Saidur R wrote:

My question now is, can Upwork help handle situations like this better? 


Why not learn how to handle situations like this yourself?

 

1. If a client offers you less money than you find acceptable, simply say, "I'm sorry, but I believe that I've quoted you a fair rate, and unfortunately I cannot offer you a discount." If they keep trying to haggle, walk away.

2. If a client wants you to do tasks that you didn't previously agree to, either quote them a new rate or tell them that you're not able to offer the services that they're requesting. Agreeing to work as a Chinese-English translator - when you don't speak Chinese nor have experience as a translator - was a very bad idea.

3. If a client is difficult to work with, don't start a second project with them.

4. Never, ever offer unlimited revisions - if you do that, you shouldn't be surprised if a client doesn't value your time.

5. Clients can't "order" you to do anything. They are not your master or even your employer. You are your own boss and you can - and should - learn how to stand up for yourself.

6. At the same time, you shouldn't threaten to report a client to Upwork just because they're not giving you more work at a pace that you deem acceptable. It's the client's project, so they're allowed to decide when they need more work done, and Upwork can't force them to hurry up and respond just because you're anxious to close the contract.

 

Maybe I'm not understanding your post correctly, but I'm failing to see how your client is "cunning" or trying to manipulate you. He tried to get a discounted rate - it happens. Simply say no, and make sure that the full amount of money is in escrow before you do any more work.

Hi Christine, 

Thank you for taking the time to comment on my post.
But I strongly believe that you are oversimplifying the issue here.

Regardless of what you say, I think freelancers will continue to seek new clients and undertake new projects. The nature of this job demands it. We get paid when we take a new client. It's as simple as that.

Similarly, why did the client ask me to work on a Chinese-English translation project? Because he knew that he could also benefit from my service. Thus, it's mutually beneficial. And that's why it'll continue to happen across all freelance platforms.

I don't see anything wrong with this.

So...what do I seek here? Why did I write this post? Why did I refer to the client as a "cunning individual"?

Well, I thought I made it clear in my post. I apologize if it wasn't clear to you.

Let me put it this way:

We agreed to work on a new project, and we both knew we would have challenges. As both of us had our own reasons to work on this project, it's pretty obvious that we'll both try to maximize the benefits of the contract, which is for me to be paid on time according to the contract terms and for him to complete the work at an affordable rate and with excellence.

Now, no matter what our respective agendas are, we cannot cross some lines.
And in my view, the client has crossed the line multiple times here.
Here's how:

1. He stopped responding to my messages to get eight free articles. This is known as cheating. It would be polite and courteous of him if he would inform me if he wishes to delay. He ignored my messages because he didn't want to pay. We both knew what was going on. We both knew that I was actually messaging him to get my due payment. We both knew I was not interested in getting any more work from him.

2. He again cheated me by breaking the terms of the original agreement. There is no justification for this. I don't believe you can either! Having started a contract, you must abide by the terms of the agreement. If you still have another opinion, I would like to hear from you.

3. He hasn't responded for weeks now. Once again, it is I who chases him. Common sense would tell you I'm not chasing him for more work, but trying to get paid for the work I've already done for him. To finish those 7 articles that are still unpaid, I had to work late at night.

4. He couldn't pay what he agreed to pay in the first place. He still has no remorse. I think he is trying to get more free work from me by using terse language.

For all of the above reasons, I believe any freelancer in my position would feel the same way. Naturally, when we are cheated, we think that the perpetrator is cunning or somehow more sophisticated than us. In my opinion, I did not make any unjustified claims.

Still, I would appreciate a response from Upwork support agents who can further investigate my issue. Thanks.

tlsanders
Community Member

This whole post is an odyssey in absurdity.

 

You hae been a top rated freelancer for years, but volunteered to work for 2/3 of what the client was offering and then, despite him adding multiple layers of bizarre extra requirements, you agreed to cut your price even further and continue working with him? 

 

It's a bad client, for sure, but about 85% of the problem here is a long chain of stunningly bad decisions on your part.

@Tiffany
Well, according to you, I made some bad decisions. Now, how does this justify the client not paying me what had been agreed upon? How does it justify that I have to write seven articles for him without being paid and that he does not respond to my messages for weeks?

If the money was in escrow - which it should be before you start working - then you should have submitted the articles using the "submit" button and you would have been paid automatically. There was no need to chase the client nor seek more work nor agree to do more articles for less money.

@Christine

I'm not sure if you're aware of the real world applications of the 'submit work' button. If I hit the submit button each time I write an article for a client, they will get annoyed by having to approve so many milestone payments.

"There was no need to chase the client nor seek more work nor agree to do more articles for less money."

Your comments here seem to be based on assumptions. Life situations vary from person to person. How can you be sure I do not need to pursue more clients even if they offer a lower rate?



re: "How does it justify that I have to write seven articles for him without being paid and that he does not respond to my messages for weeks?"

 

Clients are not obligated to respond to freelancers.

 

As a freelancer, I get paid AUTOMATICALLY, regardless of whether or not the client responds or does anything.

@Preston

I think there's no need to twist it unnecessarily.
In this type of situation, both parties know what they are doing.

We are all capable of identifying these things, I'm certain. By asking for any updates, I am in effect politely requesting him to release my due payments and say goodbye. 

I agree that this whole thing is completely bizarre and a perfect example of a very, very poorly managed contract.

 

For starters, you don't accept a translation job if you aren't a translator, let alone a job translating from a language you don't understand a word of. That is beyond absurd.

You don't offer to communicate with a client in a language you don't understand,

You also don't translate into a language that isn't your native language.

You don't keep bombarding a client with messages.

 

You are now deep down in a hole you dug yourself. Submit for payment for what you have done so far and then sit quietly in the hope that the client won't do anything and the milestone will release automatically. Then quietly end the contract yourself, hoping the client won't leave poor feedback.

Hi Petra ,

I think you totally missed the point of my post and gave me some random advice that I wasn't looking for.

It may not have been clear, but the purpose of my lengthy post is to seek some help directly from Upwork. Here, I saw several Upwork representatives responding to freelancers' requests. To be honest, I was hoping for that kind of reply, but all I get is some random criticism.

 

As a matter of fact, I intend to continue doing what I already do. For me, it is working. It seems that Upwork's algorithms or talent specialists have also detected this. That's why they often introduce me to new clients who are looking for affordable solutions. This client and I also got acquainted through an Upwork invite.

 

However, it's one of the rare cases when a contract did not work out. It could happen, and I don't think my strategy is bad based on this single case. As long as I am confident of my ability to complete the job well, I will continue helping new clients on Upwork.

 

In terms of my competence, I don't believe I needed to reevaluate it either. It doesn't make sense to me why you are highlighting it here. The client did not mention it. According to him, I was the right person for the job. No, I don't speak Chinese. I was the one who understood how Asian languages work and was able to translate them into plain English for him. I was even offered the chance to work with him on a different project. Also, I enjoyed translating those articles and learned a lot along the way.

 

The only reason I'm here is to ask the Upwork representatives whether they can dig deeper into the matter, try to determine whether the client has personal problems or is just planning to lower the budget yet again, and if yes, how can I get paid without sacrificing my JSS score.

I will simply remove the feedback using my perk if there is no way out. However, you can rest assured that I still believe this to be a unique situation and that my strategy is not flawed. The criticism here isn't actually helping me.


Saidur R wrote:

 

I will simply remove the feedback using my perk if there is no way out. 


Then do that.

Then be careful not to accept contracts that require skills you don't have again for at least the next 3 months and 10 contracts, as you won't get the chance to remove the consequence of your actions from your profile again for 3 months and 10 contracts.

 

Considering how horrible you say the client was to work with during the first contract, it is incredibly strange that you not only left glowing feedback for the client, but eagerly accepted another contract from the same client.


What made you think anything would happen any differently?

 


Saidur R wrote:

The only reason I'm here is to ask the Upwork representatives to dig deeper.


This is a public (!) discussion forum. This is not customer support. There isn't really anything to "dig deeper". If you want to ask customer support something, ask customer support (who will tell you that as long as the client didn't violate the terms of service, which the client did not, they won't interfere with the feedback from you to the client or the client to you).

 

If the milestone is fully funded, simply submit for payment for the proportion of work that has been done. If the milestone is funded for less, that was another mistake you made.

 

How did the client manage to pay only $120 for the first contract? Wasn't there $300 in escrow if you agreed on 10 articles at $30 each? If not, you should only have sent him as much work as there were funds in escrow.

Petra,

I'm not sure if you actually read my comment before responding.

Nevertheless, I would like to reiterate a few key points:

1. Neither my client nor I believe it was a skillset-related issue. It would never be a problem for him to tell me if something needs to be edited or improved.

2. I think your statement about customer support is misleading as well. I can see that the Upwork representatives here are very helpful. There are specific examples where they assist freelancers to resolve this type of problem.

3. What makes you think that I am asking Upwork representatives to remove client feedback on my behalf? There has been work done. The client has stopped responding without paying the freelancer. That is where I need their help. Upwork takes this seriously, in my opinion. Neither do I ask the client to give me additional work nor for good feedback. My real request is for the money that is still in escrow at Upwork for the work I did. I have heard that Upwork, when dealing with this type of case, looks into the issue further and if they find a freelancer has been working, they ensure they are paid if funds are in escrow. Even feedback provided by clients that was untruthful has occasionally been removed.

I still think this is a good direction to go in and I will be patient until someone from Upwork replies.

Since the milestone is for ten articles, and I am due payment for seven articles, I cannot request Upwork to release it.
Again, I will simply wait for someone from Upwork to contact me and take the next step based on their suggestion.


Saidur R wrote:

Since the milestone is for ten articles, and I am due payment for seven articles, I cannot request Upwork to release it.


If the milestone is funded (!!!) for 10 articles and 7 articles have been done, you should simply submit for the price of 7 articles. So if the price per article were $20, and there are $200 in escrow, submit for $140. If the client doesn't respond, you get the $140 after 14 days. Then you can close the contract, take your $140 and the remaining $60 go back to the client.

 

If the money in escrow is less, you shouldn't have done $140 worth of work and there is nothing that can be done. You can still submit for $140, but all that would be automatically released after 14 days is what is in escrow.

 

How much ***IS*** in escrow?

 

You still haven't answered how you managed to only get paid $120 on the first contract if you used the system correctly. How much was funded on that first contract? SURELY, if the first contract wasn't correctly funded and this resulted in you not getting paid correctly, you would have made sure the second contract was (most people wouldn't work with that client again, why would anyone do that)?

 

Saidur R wrote:

Neither my client nor I believe it was a skillset-related issue. It would never be a problem for him to tell me if something needs to be edited or improved.


Considering that the client doesn't speak much English, he wouldn't know how good or bad those translations are. As the client isn't communicating, you have no idea what the client believes.

 


Saidur R wrote:

My real request is for the money that is still in escrow at Upwork for the work I did.


Then simply submit for the lower amount by editing the amount while submitting...

 


Saidur R wrote:

I have heard that Upwork, when dealing with this type of case, looks into the issue further and if they find a freelancer has been working, they ensure they are paid if funds are in escrow.


No, they don't. As licenced escrow agents they can't. 

 


Saidur R wrote:

 

3. What makes you think that I am asking Upwork representatives to remove client feedback on my behalf?.


I never said anything about "removing" any feedback and you're the one who wanted Upwork to help you with the feedback you might get. See your other posts and the title of your post.

re: "I will simply wait for someone from Upwork to contact me and take the next step based on their suggestion."

 

It is important for freelancers to learn how to use the Upwork tools without needing to ask Upwork personnel any questions, and without calling on Upwork personnel to intervene.

martina_plaschka
Community Member

You have 171 jobs, the impact of a single one will be very small. You should have ended the drama at the first mention of anything that was not agreed beforehand, such as you expecting to be able to work in Chinese, that's just silly, and slightly unprofessional for you to agree to this. 

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