Client ended a Contract because I wouldn’t agree to extra cheap work

[nsustainable]

Hi,

I have a previous Client who came back and proposed a quick, short project to me at lower than my normal price (or even previously with them). We re-negotiated something higher and a deadline and I started work. 

A couple days in, they asked me if I would do an additional 3 pieces of work for a $10 tip. That was so unbelievably low I thought they meant $10 for each piece but no, they were insistent I had to accept it for $10. Eventually, I said I would do all 3 for $20 but couldn't go lower (it wasn't part of the contract yet). Everything was polite even though they were obviously trying to really lowball me after I had accepted a project already. 

Anyway, after I said I felt $20 was as low as I could reasonably go, they got angry and immediately cancelled the contract and requested I refund the Escrow (even though this wasn't related to that and they knew I had already completed a substantial part of the project). 

I'm guessing the answer is that this Client is not great to work with anyway if they were doing this and to refund the money but wondering your thoughts or any advice. 

[25005175]

Hmm... They technically didn't ask for free work. Did they threaten you with negative feedback at any point?

[nsustainable]

Hi Jonathan,

I'm wondering if you maybe misread the above because the two questions mainly apply if you think I ended the contract.

I started the contract, was halfway finished and then they asked me to do some extra work for a very low fee (part of it included work not even related to the project in any way). They weren't clear with what the rate they were offering so I queried this and when it became obvious they wanted me to do about 1.5-2 hours extra work for $10 total (which is well below my rate) I said I would do for $20 just to keep them on-side which is what I think they hoped (only that I would also agree to their price as well).

They tried to say I had to do it for $10 but I said that I had already gone as low as I would on this project and thought I was giving them a great price overall but also on this additional work and that they could offer this other piece of work to someone else if they felt my $20 rate was unreasonable. There weren't any direct threats or rudeness just when it became clear I didn't feel I could negotiate a lower price for an additional tiny portion they wanted to add on to a project they then cancelled the whole thing. 

Basically, they ended the contract at that point immediately without any further notice. 

Thanks for your thoughts but I think it's clear they just wanted to get this done as cheaply as possible and when I wouldn't go lower sought to punish me. It's a pity because I enjoyed the the work itself. Ah well. Love and learn. There were a few red flags will keep in mind for the future. 

[25005175]

I read it. I was just wondering if they were even less scrupulous than you described. Most similar posts recently included feedback threats as part of the tale.

[nsustainable]

Hmm, direct threats? Upwork can definitely be a sketchy place with lots of scam artists. I've had to learn to listen to subtext and my intuition more closely because every time I've felt a Client might be a little sketchy, and then ignored it because they hadn't said anything obvious, it turned out to be true and they went on to misbehave.... So, in some ways it's almost more easy if they're straightforward jerks because then the lines are much more easily defined. Sadly here this was just one of those cases when the Client started slowly (and then increasingly) pushing boundaries subtly and then more overtly in every conversation we had and then over-reacting if I didn't immediately agree to what they want. So more subtle but same end result I guess because threat was definitely implied. I think they finally ended the contract because I wasn't having it anymore so they realised they would have to go try to cheat someone else? Someone else suggested below that maybe I was too lenient at the beginning and this is what made them think they could get away with that. I wish he wasn't right, but think he has a point I need to learn from. 

[jeremiah-brown · Accepted solution]

I had a repeat client that used to do this to me.  Used to...

I landed the initial project with the client, everything went fine, the client was polite, courteous, and professional.  About part way through the contract they asked if I could add an additional task - it was small, and I agreed.

Nearing the end of the contract, they asked for even more items that were not covered under the original scope of work.  They also offered very low pay for these tasks, similar to your situation.  Wanting to please the client, I reluctantly accepted.  Once those tasks were complete, they asked for another.  See where I'm going with this?

Anyhow, I ended up telling the client that we would need to finished the current scope of work before I would be able to start on anything else.  Once the original contract was closed and feedback given, I was presented with the additional work.  I then changed my pricing from fixed rate to hourly and gave them my price.

I did this because the hourly rate seems to deter clients from requesting frequent changes and additional tasks (sarcasm...) - funny how that hourly thing works...

Next time you encounter this, you may need to use your best judgement, but consider falling back on closing the current contract and opening a new one for all additional out of scope work.

[nsustainable]

Hi Jeremiah,

thanks for taking the time to share your story. I've sort of answered this in my Reply directly above but I take your point.  Thanks for the advice. 

[tlsanders]

Don't agree to the refund. Dispute and try to negotiate to get paid for the part of the work you'd already done.

[nsustainable]

Thanks for suggesting this Tiffany. As soon as you did that, I realised that I don't want to support them with my work which is of very high quality and will help substantially promote and increase the value of their brand. So just not going to submit the work and refund. Thanks anyway to you both for your replies. Much appreciated. 

[prestonhunter]

A client may end a contract at any time.

For any reason.

A client doesn't need a reason to end a contract.

But that doesn't mean that a client should ask for a refund. And it doesn't mean that a freelancer should agree to give a refund.

If a client wants to end an hourly contract, he should just end it.

The freelancer will be paid for the time that she worked. Period.

If a client wants to end a fixed-price contract, the proper way to do it is to release any remaining escrow funds to the freelancer and close the contract.

No discussion or negotiation is needed.

[nsustainable]

Hi Preston,

All good points. I always mention this to my Clients as well and it's true for Freelancers being able to end contracts as well. However, this Client both ended the contract and wanted a refund even though they knew I had already spent days working on the project and was almost complete. They also agreed they think my work is of extremely high quality so, regardless of the reason as ending the contract is always their choice, they asking for a refund was the issue. 

The Client obviously cancelled the contract in order to request a refund to punish me for not agreeing to do a number of hours of some tangential and some also unrelated work for almost free. 

Shouldn't have happened, but it did. 

[wlyonsatl]

Nadine, Please leave accurate feedback for this client so other freelancers will know to avoid them.

[nsustainable]

I can't. Think this was a main reason the Client ended the contract and requested a refund: this means I won't be given an option to leave feedback for them. Ah well. 

[dereksey]

Upwork pays you for whatever job you do and also helps settles payment grievances. You should have reported this client's behaviour to the Support team. 

[nsustainable]

Hi Derek,

That's an interesting point. Thanks for raising it. My understanding was that they charge $300 for a mediation which is what I think would happen in a scenario like this? That was just over the price of the job as this was a short two day job... but as I'm still relatively new to Upwork I understand I may have misunderstood and would appreciate any links or more information on if you've done this before and if it's worked for you. 

Thanks!

[25005175]

Mediation is free. Arbitration (which is binding) is $875, evenly split between Client, Freelancer, and Upwork.

[nsustainable]

Thanks for explaining this Jonathan. Will re-look at this again as clearly don't have it all straight in my mind. 

[prestonhunter]

Mediation is free.

But keep in mind what mediation means:

Upwork encourages the freelancer and client to come to an agreement.

During mediation, Upwork will NOT make a decision, and Upwork will not "look at evidence."

[nsustainable]

Good clarifications here. Makes it clear that mediation probably would not have worked because, in my opinion at least, the Client was not acting in "good faith" and that's what a positive outcome for mediations usually depend upon. 

[prestonhunter]

Sometimes even if a client is not acting in good faith, they'll be willing to agree to a compromise during mediation. Because otherwise, they are blocked from getting any money back.

For example:

If there is a contract with $100 in escrow, and the freelancer offers to return half back to the client immediately... A client might agree to that, rather than getting nothing. Or the client may feel like getting $50 back is better than going to arbitration, which would require the client to pay $291, which is non-refundable.

But none of it is ever pleasant. Going to the dispute/mediation step means that the whole process has broken down. We all want to avoid this.

[nsustainable]

Hi Preston,

This was an especially helpful response that gives me a much better understanding of what I could have done instead of assuming since arbitration costs $291 it just wasn't worth pursuing. 

This knowledge, and that from the contributions of others, makes me feel much more confident about staying on Upwork. 

Thanks, Nadine

[9ea40837]

I am here wondering if these clients believe they can treat us as slaves.

[tlsanders]

Generally, clients think they can do what you've allowed them to believe they can get away with. If you act like a business and take charge of the relationship from the beginning, you'll find clients more likely to respect you as a B2B provider and respect the terms of your agreement. 

[nsustainable]

Fair enough. I actually think that's why the Client ended the contract. It was clear I wasn't going to let them get away with any more bad behaviour and was very calm and clear about my needs. As soon as that came through, they ran!

[nsustainable]

Hi Dian,

Exactly! I've had some fab clients but come across some really shocking attitudes in my 6 or so months here. Some of worst experiences though are definitely connected to ghostwriting where the market and attitude is definitely getting worse even in the short time I've been on here. It's sort of convinced me not to do this type of work anymore. Initially, I saw it as just an extension of copywriting but the proprietorial attitudes are very different in my experience and already find myself turning down a lot of work because of clearly problematic red flags (this was yet another I decided to ignore).

Anyway, I listened to an NPR podcast awhile back that talked about ghostwriting and the history of its etymological connection to race/slaves in French. Great podcast on a depressing subject: https://www.npr.org/transcripts/718729150

Anyway, thanks for your sympathetic response. Breathed a huge sigh of relief when I read that others get annoyed with this too!

N