Client issues

[jswaringen]

I just had a client who had me work hours past what my contract hours were for the week.  For example hp paid me for 13:10 on UpWork but I worked 113:12 hours.  I kept track in Harvest.

I sent him an invoice for all the Hours I worked minus what I was paid through UpWork.  I told him if he didn't pay the invoice I would turn it over to a collection agency.  However he told me if I did that he would call and demand a refund from UpWork.

My question is can he get a refund on what UpWork has already paid.  These contract was ended by me after he lowered the  approved hours to 1 per week.  I know why he lowered the hours that low.  

It's very frustrating to put in over 258.75 hours for a month and only get paid for 53.10.

[prestonhunter · Accepted solution]

John:

Clients can not make you work.

You did that of your own accord.

This client may be a terrible client. He may be a wonderful client. I don't know.

But no client can force you to work. He probably doesn't even live in the same country as you.

re: "I sent him an invoice for all the Hours I worked minus what I was paid through UpWork. I told him if he didn't pay the invoice I would turn it over to a collection agency"

That's not how this works.

You were out of line.

It is against Upwork ToS for a client to ask a freelancer to work for free.

If the client was demanding that you work past the hours that the contract allowed, then the client should have his account terminated. That is completely inappropriate.

Separately: NOT talking about the original poster, but speaking hypothetically and generally:

If I heard that a freelancer was using Upwork inappropriately and demanding payment for hours which exceeded the maximum number of hours allowed per week, and threatening to turn over the matter to a collection agency, then I would consider that grounds for suspending or terminating that freelancer's Upwork account.

[prestonhunter]

Some basic Upwork rules:

- Clients may not ask freelancers to work for free.

- Technically, freelancers are NOT violating any Upwork rules if they work for free.

- Freelancers may use the Upwork desktop time-tracker OR use manual time logging to track hours PAST the weekly maximum number of hours allowed by their contract. Doing so is NOT a violation of any Upwork rule.

- Freelancers are not paid for hours worked beyond the maximumm number of weekly hours.

- Clients may set the maximum number of hours that may be worked in a week to any integer number. They may choose to NOT have a limit. Clients may change this setting at any time.

====

Some best practices:

Sometimes a client wants more work done than can be accomplished within the maximum number of hours allowed per week.

What options does a freelancer do when this happens?

The freelancer may continue working, without getting paid. This is not recommended. (But IF a client works beyond the maximum number of hours allowed, he should continue using the Upwork time-tracker. That keeps a record of the time worked. And if the client raises the hours limit, the time will be automatically paid and covered under Upwork Payment Protection.)

But rather than working for free...

The freelancer SHOULD talk to the client and explain that the maximum number of hours allowed during the week has been reached. The freelancer may ask the client: "Would you like me to wait until next week to continue the work, or would you prefer to increase the maximum hours setting?"

The client needs to choose one of those options, or thank the freelancer for his time and end the contract.

The client does not have the option to ask the freelancer to continue working without getting paid, because it is a violation of Upwork ToS for a client to do so.

If the freelancer is working too slowly to meet the client's needs, or if the resulting billing is turning out to be too expensive for the client's budget or preferences, then it means this is not a good match between the freelancer and the project. This means that it is time for the client to close the contract and work with other members of his team which provide the client the value that he needs.

[jswaringen]

Thanks Preston,

I guess I chalk this one up to “hard lesson learned”.  Just a bit frustrating.  I won’t turn over to a collection agency and I sure won’t make the same mistake twice!

[prestonhunter]

I appreciate the fact that you turned it into a learning experience.

If I'm completely honest with you... I've been here for 5 years this week.

And I still make mistakes. I'm still learning.

Even after 5 years, I have run into contracts where things go south and I have worked free hours for clients for various reasons.

But... yeah... that's not what we want to see happen. It's not good for freelancers OR clients when that happens.

[martina_plaschka]

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John S wrote:

I just had a client who had me work hours past what my contract hours were for the week.  For example hp paid me for 13:10 on UpWork but I worked 113:12 hours.  I kept track in Harvest.

I sent him an invoice for all the Hours I worked minus what I was paid through UpWork.  I told him if he didn't pay the invoice I would turn it over to a collection agency.  However he told me if I did that he would call and demand a refund from UpWork.

My question is can he get a refund on what UpWork has already paid.  These contract was ended by me after he lowered the  approved hours to 1 per week.  I know why he lowered the hours that low.  

It's very frustrating to put in over 258.75 hours for a month and only get paid for 53.10.

---

Why did you not simply use the framework that upwork supplies to get paid? Use the time tracker, never work an hourly contract without it. 

You should know better than to advertise your attempt at circumvention to the whole world in the forum, and most importantly upwork employees, which can get your account suspended real fast.