Client scammer

[04478534]

Since few weeks I tried to contact a client. He doesn't answer me anymore. The probs? We open a milestone of 72$, and he added lot of more work because he was in rush. As 99% of freelancers in this situation, we make a deal and work with the client on a good flow. Unfortunately this client never answered me once the work was done. In 5 years, it's the first it happens to me.

Upwork support speaks about the procedure that every freelancers know, it's ok. But why Upwork let this kind of client on his platform? I checked his feedback and I am not the only one to be in this situation. In short, this client ask freelancer to do not request milestone, add work again and again, and never paid or answer when the work is done.

It's an agency, not a small client. So my question, why don't investigate more? Is client more important for you than freelancer? Are you afraid to ban client from your platform?

I hope you will understand that this story is just a beginning for me, cause I personally hate injustice, and I will find a way to have justice.

[petra_r]

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Jean-Laurent B wrote:

You know why Amazon is number 1 in the world? Cause once their clients have this kind of problem they find for them a solution.

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Have I got news for you: You are not Upwork's client. The CLIENT is Upwork's client. You are (or rather your work is) the product being sold on Upwork.

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Jean-Laurent B wrote:

Here, hope it never happens to you otherwise you will be like me.

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It won't happen to her because she knows how to choose clients intelligently and how to use milestones correctly.

And if it did happen to her, she'd know why it happened, and wouldn't run amock whining that nanny did protect her from making bad choices. She'd chalk it up as a lesson learned and move on making better choices.

[04478534]

Have good news for you, before the needed client, Upwork need freelancer, they spend millions to have, like Malt, Freelancer, Fiveer or so on. But if freelancer leave, client will leave. The better you should do, is to try to improve freelancer experience, not telling them to read ToS or privacy, but to help them.

[feed_my_eyes]

You're being helped by being told how to avoid getting scammed like this in the future. If you choose to ignore the good advice - just as you've ignored all of Upwork's recommendations to ensure that you get paid - then that's on you. 

[04478534]

It's not for me, it's for people. You really think I am the only one and I will be the only one like this? No. If upwork has less fee, if Upwork has a support who tell us, at least, we will check with the client, and discuss with him, or so on, I would be ok. But here, you tell me "it's your mistake" so, you will tell to other people will come in the future "it's your mistake", ok.

The day where someone in India or in Madagascar will work and get scammer by someone in US or in Europe like this, and loose a lot, because for him it's one month of work of month, I hope see your message tell him/her "it's your fault". At this moment, you will give a perfect definition about selfishness.

[m_terrazas]

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Jean-Laurent B wrote:

It's not for me, it's for people. You really think I am the only one and I will be the only one like this? No. If upwork has less fee, if Upwork has a support who tell us, at least, we will check with the client, and discuss with him, or so on, I would be ok. But here, you tell me "it's your mistake" so, you will tell to other people will come in the future "it's your mistake", ok.

The day where someone in India or in Madagascar will work and get scammer by someone in US or in Europe like this, and loose a lot, because for him it's one month of work of month, I hope see your message tell him/her "it's your fault". At this moment, you will give a perfect definition about selfishness.

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How are we going to say anything else if really, as has happened to you, it is their fault?
For your information, it has been many freelancers of all nationalities who have ended up on the forum because they did not do their due diligence and fell for deceptions.
And for your information, the vast majority acknowledged their guilt and learned, the hard way, what NOT to do.

So will you join the club of those who will never admit they made a big mistake and only blame Upwork for what they have done wrong?
If you look in the forums, they are out there.

[martina_plaschka]

You are still assuming that 99% of freelancers act like you did? There is no basis for that assumption. It is more likely the other way around, 99% of people would never agree to work without a milestone. Upwork would be out of business pretty quick if nobody paid any fees, right? Which you also didn't, since you didn't get paid. 

[BojanS]

Everyone, 

This thread will be closed from further replies. As a gentle reminder, please be mindful of the Community Guidelines when posting in the Community.

Thank you for participating in this thread.

[petra_r]

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Jean-Laurent B wrote:

contact his client and tell them about it.

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Oh, I look forward to your "My Upwork account was suspended for NO REASON" post when you've done that. Maybe take some time out to calm down and read Upwork's terms of service.

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Jean-Laurent B wrote:

. And make justice action against him, cause in France freelancer are protect too.

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So the client is in France as well? Great! Take them to court then if you like.

[04478534]

And you're happy to support client who scams freelancers?

[petra_r]

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Jean-Laurent B wrote:

And you're happy to support client who scams freelancers?

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Absolutely not. Nobody is. I also don't support freelancers who train clients how to get away with such behaviour by being negligent (not checking the client's history" and not using the system correctly (not working with funded milestones).

[04478534]

Yeah you support client who scams freelancer, that's what I am telling.

[feed_my_eyes]

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Jean-Laurent B wrote:

Yeah you support client who scams freelancer, that's what I am telling.

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You are the one who supported a scammer client. You could have refused to work with them and reported them for asking for free work, but instead, you rewarded them for their behavior. 

[04478534]

I am not this kind of man. Report is not a part of my vocabulary in a such case.

[feed_my_eyes]

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Jean-Laurent B wrote:

I am not this kind of man. Report is not a part of my vocabulary in a such case.

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It's not? So you haven't just made a dozen posts reporting the client and demanding action from Upwork? It must have been my imagination.

[04478534]

After he lies to me. That's a small difference, but the meaning is big. Meditate.

[martina_plaschka]

So the point of your post being? Just ranting, not reporting?

[04478534]

Find a way to avoid newcomers or freelancers live that same stuff. We are already 3 with this client, I don't imagine how many on Upwork could facing that. Ofc you could tell them "it's your mistake", but it's not my conception of life.

[versailles]

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Jean-Laurent B wrote:

As 99% of freelancers in this situation, we make a deal and work 

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What hat did you pull this figure from? Do you have access to some internal Upwork metrics that nobody else has access to?
No funds in milestone -> no work. That's the rule most of the seasoned people here follow.

[04478534]

So you are telling to me, that all the work you do in your life, you sign a contract before to do this? **Edited for community guidelines**

[a_lipsey]

"So you are telling to me, that all the work you do in your life, you sign a contract before to do this? **Edited for community guidelines**

Yes, because contracts are the protection you have in business and even the best of friends should outline scope of work and expectations before working together. It's actually not a poor life at all. My clients are always happy, and I always get paid. The people I hire understand their jobs/roles/tasks, always get paid, and I get work delivered to me on time. 

A contract is a form of communication. It communicates an agreement. If you choose to go without this important communication tool, then you are setting yourself up not only for a lot of risk of loss, but also mismanaged and disorganized projects. Exactly what are you CEO of? 

[04478534]

It's a poor life, definitely. If you go on street and let 10$ to a homeless, think to ask him/her a donation receipt to report it on your tax deduction.

[a_lipsey]

That has absolutely zero to do with business contracts. Aside from the fact that money given to a homeless individual is not tax deductible in the US, it has zero to do with establishing contracts with business partners. It's just a strawman because you have no legs to stand on. Stop needing to be "right" so badly and actually listen to yourself and what you sound like. 

[04478534]

You're in US, we are in Europe. Our work and life conception is not the same, same for business contracts, and same for tax deduction. Fortunately 😊

[a_lipsey]

It still had zero to do with establishing a business contract. 

If this is the way you communicate, then I would guess that you misunderstood whatever the client told you and the other side of this story, the client's side, will be far different than your claim that they told you to work without a milestone. 

[04478534]

You bet? I send you the full discussion if you want 🙂

[m_terrazas]

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Jean-Laurent B wrote:

You're in US, we are in Europe. Our work and life conception is not the same, same for business contracts, and same for tax deduction. Fortunately 😊

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Such nonsense!

Do not put all Europeans in the same bag, most of us know how to run our business. I have a contract, I fulfill it and I take care that it is fulfilled.
Do not put us all in "your" 99%, the vast majority will not commit the same stupidity as you. And if they commit it and come here, they will not be stubborn and will listen to the comments made by people who know much more than they do.

[04478534]

I put europeans in it. In Europe we have companies who care about freelancers, if you are happy to see freelancer get scammed and paid 20% fees, and thousand USD of fees and find no support**Edited for community guidelines**.

[m_terrazas]

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Jean-Laurent B wrote:

I put europeans in it. In Europe we have companies who care about freelancers, if you are happy to see freelancer get scammed and paid 20% fees, and thousand USD of fees and find no support**Edited for community guidelines**.

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This ..., I can't answer you as you deserve because they would edit the answer and possibly take me off the forum for a season.

[feed_my_eyes]

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Jean-Laurent B wrote:

So you are telling to me, that all the work you do in your life, you sign a contract before to do this? **bleep**, what a poor life.

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Look, make up your mind. Either you want to follow the rules and get paid, or you don't care about things like contracts and funded milestones and are happy to take your chances with getting scammed. Pick one, because you can't have it both ways.

[roberty1y · Accepted solution]

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Jean-Laurent B wrote:

I hope you will understand that this story is just a beginning for me, cause I personally hate injustice, and I will find a way to have justice.

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The only justice that exists on Upwork is incorporated in the terms of service and the advice it gives to users. If you abide by that, you won't be scammed. On the other hand, if you do jobs without a milestone and the client won't pay, it's too late. If Upwork tried to help freelancers in that situation by pursuing the clients for the money they owe them, they would need to charge them 90 percent commision instead of 20. 

Upwork has a very well thought out system for ensuring that people get paid, probably the most efficient and cost effective one that any such site has come up with. Anyone who works outside that system, e.g. by doing a job that's not funded, can't come back and expect Upwork to solve their problem at the company's expense. This would incur costs that would have to be passed on to other feelancers. I don't want to pay for the mistakes of others.

[04478534]

"I don't want to pay for the mistakes of others" <--- The difference between you and me. 
You prefer to let others with their probs <--- This difference btw you me.

That's the perfect solution Robert, thanks. You show one thing with your post, money before all. Hope one day you will open your eyes, because the day you will make a mistake, someone will answer to you "I don't want to pay for you", and you will understand what humility means.

[a_lipsey]

I said the exact same thing to you. Seems like you just don't like listening to women. 

[04478534]

I was kidding, sarcasm, you know. if you really thing Robert Solution was THE solution, try to read my reply to him and thinking how sarcastic I was.