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Shayan's avatar
Shayan A Community Member

Clients post and just leave without hiring

I is really sad to say that clients post jobs and we apply and waste connects but clients just forget about job. Neither they hire anybody nor they close the job. There must be a system to either close their jobs or an option for freelancers to withdraw their connects. It is not our fault if client does not hire and just lets his job posted for months, so why should our connects get wasted?????

 

 

50 REPLIES 50
Shayan's avatar
Shayan A Community Member

Hello jeanne..

first of all happy new year. Next, save your this comment. We will talk about it soon.

regards

 

 

Tiffany's avatar
Tiffany S Community Member

First, as I and others have mentioned, many clients who "couldn't be bothered" to interact with their posting for 30 days (or even significantly longer) circle back and hire freelancers and end up being great clients. One thing you don't seem to realize is that when you have an active job posting, Upwork so constantly bombards you with emails about submitted proposals that there is absolutely no oneed to "interact" with the posting to keep an eye on the number and quality of submissions coming in. 

 

The bigger issue, though, is the cavalier "why not just give back the connects?" outlook. More freelancers having more connects is bad for everyone in the mix. Your goal may not be to drive clients away from the platform, but clients who are drowning in garbage proposals DO leave the platform--it's one of the reasons you see jobs with a large number of proposals submitted and no hires. 

 

As a client, the very last thing I want is all of the freelancers who create that situation being rewarded with a constant stream of returned connects so they can spam up my job postings. As a freelancer, the very last thing I want is the lowest-end freelancers getting a constant stream of returned connects so they can flood job postings with garbage proposals and drive the clients away. 

 

Even the freelancers begging to get those connects back won't benefit, because they'll be facing worse odds that clients will even see their proposals as their lists fill up with cut-and-paste spam. 

Jeanne's avatar
Jeanne H Community Member

I don't want anyone messing with the clients' ability to post jobs. I have been hired more than 30 days after posting.

 

What is it with the connects? What legal and ethical self-employment only makes money? Connects are a business expense. The last thing we need is more unskilled freelancers throwing free connects at angry clients tired of wading through garbage.

Jeremiah's avatar
Jeremiah B Community Member

I have been hired after 30 days as well.  I have had several clients who hired other freelancers (cheaper), only to figure out that cheaper isn't always better (they hired me to correct substandard work).

 

As stated in a different reply, perhaps Upwork should refund connects if a client doesn't interact with their posting or their account in any way.  See my other reply for my thoughts on this, as I don't want to type it out again.

 

Yes, you are correct that connects are a business expense.  That is just common sense.  However, they are also a way to gauge the health of both the freelancer and client populations.  In the current freelancer environment it's easy to see there is a much larger supply of freelancers than clients/jobs.  In order for Upwork to draw in better clientele with higher spending power, the site needs to shed an unknown excess of freelancers all competing for the same work.  Keep the best talent, shed the worst.


Shedding excess freelancers should be as simple as increasing the cost of proposals (more connects), but is it really the right answer?  Does it really make sense to penalize freelancers via their purchased connects for clients who ghost the site, have zero interaction with their job postings?  Or would it make more sense to refund connects where clients neglect their postings, allowing freelancers to apply more of those connects to the clientele that is serious about hiring?  In my opinion it's probably more beneficial for Upwork to refund connects on null postings and promote a sense of equity despite increasing cost and thinning the extraneous supply of freelancers.  Consider it severance package by proxy.

Jeanne's avatar
Jeanne H Community Member

I"n the current freelancer environment it's easy to see there is a much larger supply of freelancers than clients/jobs. In order for Upwork to draw in better clientele with higher spending power, the site needs to shed an unknown excess of freelancers all competing for the same work. Keep the best talent, shed the worst."

 

This is true.

 

"Shedding excess freelancers should be as simple as increasing the cost of proposals (more connects), but is it really the right answer?"

 

Yes, it is. I don't care about the connects, just make a subscriber fee and be done with it. Then maybe people would stop whining about not getting connects back and learn about being self-employed.

 

"Does it really make sense to penalize freelancers via their purchased connects for clients who ghost the site, have zero interaction with their job postings?"

 

We all get ghosted. This is a business.

 

"Or would it make more sense to refund connects where clients neglect their postings, allowing freelancers to apply more of those connects to the clientele that is serious about hiring?"

 

No, that makes no sense. There are too many unskilled freelancers. Giving away more connects only allows them to annoy and harass clients who will never, ever, hire them.

 

"In my opinion it's probably more beneficial for Upwork to refund connects on null postings and promote a sense of equity despite increasing cost and thinning the extraneous supply of freelancers."

 

Equity? This is a business, not a social experiment. It would be nice if the whole world was on the same page, but I don't see that happening. When you are in business for yourself, there is no whining about business costs. You either spend what you need or lose out.

 

"Consider it severance package by proxy."

 

This is exactly my point. A severance package is for employees. No freelancer is an employee. That's why you have to pay fees, workers compensation or similar, and taxes, etc. So many freelancers act like the "free" part is all they recognize. Free money, no expenses, no taxes.

 

No one promises fair in life or business. Every freelancer started online with no money and no clients. Why should I or any freelancer who is following the rules and working hard, be burdened with unskilled freelancers who put up a photo of their cat and claim to be bilingual when they can't write in their own language? This clogs the clients feeds to the point the clients give up and leave. No, do not give anyone any extra benefits, including connects. I'm getting very tired of those who want their path made suddenly easy and simple. Be an adult and treat freelancing as self-employment with responsibilities or find another path.

Jeremiah's avatar
Jeremiah B Community Member

 

 

Yes, it is. I don't care about the connects, just make a subscriber fee and be done with it. Then maybe people would stop whining about not getting connects back and learn about being self-employed.

 

A subscriber fee is an interesting idea, but what about the mechanics of it?  You still need to set the barrier to entry high enough that it generates turnover among the extraneous supply of new freelancers.  A low barrier to entry and low turnover is no better than bottomless connects. 

 

We all get ghosted. This is a business.

 

That is true, and it is a fact of business.  People change their minds.  People are chaotic and unpredictable.  A business owner needs to adapt and overcome or get out of the way.  However, this is still a site where people spend money to have access to opportunities. 

While I personally understand that there are a certain number of zombie job postings, others have paid for access with the expectation that those zombie postings are being managed in some way.  Upwork is basically a brokerage, and at some point a customer still expects a brokerage to provide access to a certain level of quality. 

 

No, that makes no sense. There are too many unskilled freelancers. Giving away more connects only allows them to annoy and harass clients who will never, ever, hire them.

 

I agree that there is likely an oversupply of unskilled freelancers.  Even when I started on the site, I can remember job postings regularly and consistently showing 5-10 proposals.  Now, its regularly and consistently 20+ proposals and I havent been here that long.

I disagree about annoying and harassing clients though.  Submitting a proposal isn't harassment and it shouldnt be an annoyance to the client.  After all, the client is the one soliciting the interactions.  Proposals can only be submitted once, unless the client initiates multiple job postings - in which case they are soliciting a greater response from more freelancers. 

Its my understanding that once a freelancer submits a bid and proposal, they are no longer able to continue bidding and are knocked out of the pile if they are outbid by someone else.  One proposal, once chance to bid, unless this is incorrect.

 

Equity? This is a business, not a social experiment. It would be nice if the whole world was on the same page, but I don't see that happening. When you are in business for yourself, there is no whining about business costs. You either spend what you need or lose out.

 

Sure, and I can mostly agree with that.  However, my specific point is being missed here.  The point is the perception of equity among the least productive, lowest performing, lowest skilled freelancers.  The chaff.  The extraneous volume of freelancers that need to be purged from the site in order for the site to be succesful.

One of the tough realities of being a business owner is conceding to people for the sake of maintaing good relationships, access to business opportunities, and sometimes closing the deal itself.  Sometimes, as a business owner, we have to bite our tongues and just finish the work to appease difficult customers.

With that in mind, this is why I use "severance by proxy" and "equity" as specific terms within my comment.  In corporate america, severance is given as a way to make an amicable split.  If the connects are being spent either way, the idea is to let those most likely to NOT succeed, do so with a smile on their face.  From a business perspective its better to calm the challenging customer with a free pen then it is to let them go off into the world and run off a big spender in the parking lot.     

The comment is not about employees and is not about freebies or endless supplies of connects.  Its about how the lowest performing freelancers talk about the site once they are gone.  Customers (freelancers, for the sake of this comment) remember how they are treated.

 

No one promises fair in life or business. Every freelancer started online with no money and no clients. Why should I or any freelancer who is following the rules and working hard, be burdened with unskilled freelancers who put up a photo of their cat and claim to be bilingual when they can't write in their own language? This clogs the clients feeds to the point the clients give up and leave. No, do not give anyone any extra benefits, including connects. I'm getting very tired of those who want their path made suddenly easy and simple. Be an adult and treat freelancing as self-employment with responsibilities or find another path.

You are correct, and I agree that there are no promises.  I get it, I do.

Unfortunately, this site thinks up features like connects, boosts, refunds, etc.  Given that this is the reality of this site, I am simply making a talking point within those operational boundaries.  If it were up to me, I would probably agree that a moderate subscription fee and open competition is the best model to generate turnover and maintain a healthy pool of freelancers and clientele - but thats not what we have.

Jeanne's avatar
Jeanne H Community Member

"A subscriber fee is an interesting idea, but what about the mechanics of it? You still need to set the barrier to entry high enough that it generates turnover among the extraneous supply of new freelancers. A low barrier to entry and low turnover is no better than bottomless connects. "

 

This is not rocket science. Upwork can figure out how much they need and are getting from connects. I'm so sick of the whining, if it would settle things and stop the ridiculous mega-boosting practices, yes, get rid of them and charge a standard fee as some platforms do.

 

"That is true, and it is a fact of business. People change their minds. People are chaotic and unpredictable. A business owner needs to adapt and overcome or get out of the way. However, this is still a site where people spend money to have access to opportunities."

 

Yes, people spend money to have access. So, what's the problem?

 

I'm not anti-new freelancer or other country freelancers or those who speak other languages. Some people, have tried to make my comments into some sort of anti-non- English thing, which it is not. I have been saying forever, if you have the skills, charge for it, no matter where you live or your cultural background. If you don't, go find a way to make money before you get scammed and spend your money on connects and then complain.

 

Trash is trash. And there are a lot of total trash proposals. You keep talking about severance and terms that are never, ever used in freelancing, in any context.

 

I'm not concerned about people who can't make it, complaining to others. Honestly, do you think most people are going to believe them when most of the complaints I have seen were broken English, from English speakers. You can tell a lot from people's complaints. I do not pay attention to people who claim that a business is out to get them when millions of people do not have that problem. Let them talk, and complain, and whine. No client is going to read that and believe it. Upwork is not going to be damaged by freelancers complaining about not being given jobs.

Tiffany's avatar
Tiffany S Community Member

Yes, it is. I don't care about the connects, just make a subscriber fee and be done with it. 

 

This may be a decent idea, but I would almost certainly leave the site. I'm not sure how many other freelancers are in a similar position to mine, but it's a variable to be considered. 

 

I also suspect the fee would have to be very high to come close to matching the amount Upwork is currently taking in in connects. 

Jeanne's avatar
Jeanne H Community Member

Upwork could have a basic fee of a few dollars. You are probably right, with 18 million x throwing connects, their income is substantial.

Tiffany's avatar
Tiffany S Community Member

I would guess that to replace connects after accounting for exodus that came with the monthly fee, it would take a charge of upwards of $100/month to balance out the losses. That's kind of a wild guess and maybe I'm completely wrong (or maybe it's a low estimate). But, I see people in the forums all the time talking about how they're spending $30 or $50 or $100/month on connects, and I have no idea how many of them there are. 

 

 

Ameer's avatar
Ameer H Community Member

Brother, you spoke very well, I am also with you and I have also done how many parts are the same, land port and in the next verse, it is not a good one, Upwork think about it

upwork community

 

Christine's avatar
Christine A Community Member

Shayan, you're wasting connects because you're trying to get writing jobs despite making lots of mistakes in your writing; you also have no portfolio, no work experience or training of any kind listed in your profile, and an hourly rate that's much too high for a beginner. If you don't fix these issues, Upwork could give you hundreds of connects and it still won't help.

Akash's avatar
Akash P Community Member

Hello mam ..... Any kind of tips for me

Christine's avatar
Christine A Community Member

Replace your profile photo with a headshot, lower your hourly rate to $3, and go through all the learning paths to improve your profile and find out how to spot scams. The data entry category is extremely competitive and it could take a very long time to get any work. 

Yousaf's avatar
Yousaf Y Community Member

$3.....why not $2 or $1

Jonathan's avatar
Jonathan L Community Member


Yousaf Y wrote:

$3.....why not $2 or $1


Upwork has a bottom cap on hourly rates at $3.

Yousaf's avatar
Yousaf Y Community Member

Facepalm.

Joan's avatar
Joan S Community Member

Christine - You have given the best answer to Shayan, in my opinion, and I hope he pays attention to it. So many would-be freelancers complain about Upwork instead of looking to themselves or having any knowledge of the real world. In addition, I think Upwork would be successful if they thought more in terms of running a business than engaging in a social experiment.

William T's avatar
William T C Community Member

Hey Shayan, I will only apply to Jobs that are less than 3 days old and never old Jobs. I also will only apply for Jobs with a maximum of 15 proposals. This helps somewhat with not wasting Connects. Have a great day!

Apinia's avatar
Apinia R Community Member

If I were a client, I won't hire you. Your hourly rate is $45 which is very high when compared with the graphic designer I know from your country. He charges only $10 and his Upwork profile looks much better than yours. I don't think that you're serious to work here if you do, your Upwork profile won't come out this way. Show clients, you're a Pro. 🤗 

Shayan's avatar
Shayan A Community Member

Hi Apinia!

The value clients derive from my work is 1000x times greater than this $45

Jonathan's avatar
Jonathan L Community Member

The value clients derive from my work is 1000x times greater than this $45


If you actually believe that you are worth that, then charge them $45000 per hour.

 

ETA to include quote

Jeanne's avatar
Jeanne H Community Member

Then you should have testimonials on your profile because it would help for clients to see that since you have no jobs and no portfolio and barely an introduction.

Tiffany's avatar
Tiffany S Community Member

Why doesn't your profile say one single word about the value you offer a client? 

Robin's avatar
Robin R Community Member

Can you tell something about my profile for improvement?