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mwatson1982
Member

Connects application rates -- Thoughts

My Upwork acct has just rolled over into the new "pay to play" connects system. While I am unconvinced of Upwork's statements on why these will be "improvements", I am trying to give things a chance. While I complete some jobs, I am looking through my job stream and seeing what kind of rates (of the connects) are being applied to what kinds of jobs. 

 

As suspected, Im definitely seeing some ads that still are getting bombarded with 20-50 applications within a short time.  These same jobs, before the new connect system, definitely gave advantage to the freelancers in countries with a lower cost of living.  Definitely goes against the result that Upwork staff purported during its town hall and explanation of the new system.  While I am taking a more conservative stance on what jobs I apply for, I have felt more liberal in marking more ads as "Budget Too Low" when compared to how often I would do that in the old connects system.  Unfortunatley, between the available flags the "Budget Too Low" designation is the closest choice to apply to this situation.  Really, I figure that for a while, there are going to be mistakes in the connect rate that Upwork staff assesses for jobs.  It would be nice to have a more direct flag to just say "hey, this advert might be requiring an incorrect number of connects for the circumstances and description of this ad" . Again, trying to be patient here and see how things look a month from now.

 

Update: Here is a rundown of the types of sectors my job search and skill set fall into

 

  • 3D Modeling (and some crossover into CAD)
  • Web Design (and specifics to E-commerce websites)
  • Content Management (and related, Data Entry)
  •  *** Between those types of searches and concentration, I also get a bit of product copy writing, and customer service falling into my feed (even If I dont take too many of these jobs on)

One respondant to this thread was correct in that "what I am seeing" may highly depend on what Upwork job categories Im working in.

 

Simply put, I dont think that the analysis of "how many connects to charge" is effective.  Still seeing the same amount of low ball jobs, and the same amount of jobs submitted by those who havent verified payment. I already was disinclined to apply for those before this new system, but Ill tell you... how can they charge 4 connects for such low pay jobs, or for the jobs that have no guarantee of follow through (because payment is not verified).  If there was a "Charging Too Many Connects" flag for ads, I would use that instead.

141 REPLIES 141

I must say that I am confused by Kristine's problem.

 

For instance, and judging by most of the excellent feed back she had received from clients, she had no problem making tough decisions for these clients, **Edited for Community Guidelines**

Dear Rene,

 

Let me also answer in all honestly. I guess certain people were nuts already 5 years ago when as a newbie I appeared here, on this portal, and they were as horrible as today. Not more, not less. I think that I would definitely be better than without her comments, as she wrote me then (and I remember it so well) that with my approach to what is fair and what is not, I will definitely not be able to be a freelancer and I should better leave this platform. 

 

**Edited for Community Guidelines**

Weak and pathetic...


Kristine S wrote:

Weak and pathetic...


What is? 

I understand where you're coming from Kristine, but it's almost always the case that people who are frequently mean or sarcastic to others in comments are actually acting out frustrations for their own problems or issues of self-worth in life, try not to think of it as a reflection on you, I usually feel sorry for them, and hope one day they manage to solve their personal issues. We've only got one life, it's not good to waste it on being mean to others or on worrying about what others say about us. 


Rene K wrote:

Kristine S wrote:

Petra, what is wrong with you? Do you have a bad day? Or bad days? Why can't you just answer kindly, respectfully and compassionately? 


In all honesty, one can do that only so much before going nuts here. Petra spends a lot of time guiding newbies and answering questions and there are so many people who just can't handle their business. They need Upwork to hold them by the hand and when they become argumentative, I can understand how regulars can be POed. Me included.

 

Sometimes I feel like telling some people to just get the **Edited for Community Guidelines** out of here if they don't like Upwork and to find another place to work. And to moan. And then, I shut my big mouth because I know that others may genuinely need some help and that people who already made all kinds of mistakes, like me, can share their experience so it helps others avoid them. But FLers who are demonstrating a total lack of business management skills and who come here to moan makes it hard not to lose one's temper.

________________________________________________________________________

IMO this is an excellent explanation.

 

 


 

If by "modicum of attention to detail", Petra, you mean a willingness to explore, detail and even sometimes just guess at every nuance of Upwork's opaque maze of rules, protocols, undeclared policies to the point I could be condescending and dismissive to every poster on this board who brings up questions that concern them and their ability to be treated fairly by clients - nah, that doesn't interest me.

 

But you digress, so let's return to the subject of this thread, shall we?

 

Do you know whether freelancers are submitting proposals on projects where the client has no intention of hiring more freelancers? Just a "Yes" or "No" is all you need to post in response, but I expect we will have to let the usual barrage of irrelevance continue.

Hi All,

 

I would like to remind you all to be more professional and mindful of our Community Guidelines when posting in our Community.

Thank you.

~ Goran
Upwork

Dear Goran,

 

You deleted my texts where I was saying that people here are bullying others on this Forum. Instead of taking our bullying texts, you took out the texts that reported this bullying. How come?

 

Let me tell you again - I do believe that many old users of this forum are bullying new forum members. And this is the problem and not the problem that I am talking about that!

 

 


Will L wrote:

 

Do you know whether freelancers are submitting proposals on projects where the client has no intention of hiring more freelancers? Just a "Yes" or "No" is all you need to post in response, but I expect we will have to let the usual barrage of irrelevance continue.


I guess I'm allowed to answer by more than just yes or no? ๐Ÿ™‚

My own opinion is that yes, this happens often. The thing is, you never know if the client has any intention to hire. You can get an idea, though, by looking at their history. If their hiring rate is close to 100% then you're pretty sure they intend to hire, while a hiring rate below 50% is not worth applying if you ask me.


 

(And still, the number of hires appear clearly on the job post...)


 

 

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"Where darkness shines like dazzling light"   โ€”William Ashbless

Rene,

 

It is impossible for Upwork to design its systems so it makes every freelancer and every client happy in every transaction, but Upwork could reduce this problem by a) asking the client to declare when they create a job how many freelancers they would like to hire and b) notifying the client the job will not be shown to freelancers further once that many freelancers have been hired. It appears a) if already happening, but b) is not?

 

As I have said previously, I don't apply to the type of jobs where a client would reasonably expect to hire more than one freelancer. I have seen job postings where the client states how many clients they are looking to hire, but if a client says they only expect to hire one freelancer the job posting should be automatically removed from further proposals by freelancers, with Upwork telling the client they can easily re-pen the job posting at any time.

 

Or maybe Upwork already does this? 


Will L wrote:

but if a client says they only expect to hire one freelancer the job posting should be automatically removed from further proposals by freelancers, with Upwork telling the client they can easily re-pen the job posting at any time.

 


I agree that something like this could be implemented. They could take this into consideration and tweak the process abit. I don't know, I think it's not a big deal since the information is available to all to see and to act accordingly. And also because I once applied to a filled position and closed a deal mind you, so my view may be biased.

 

 

 

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"Where darkness shines like dazzling light"   โ€”William Ashbless

Will L wrote:

 

Upwork could reduce this problem by a) asking the client to declare when they create a job how many freelancers they would like to hire and b) notifying the client the job will not be shown to freelancers further once that many freelancers have been hired. 


Perhaps an additional solution could be Upwork adding a "Number of Hires" filter to the job search feature. This would enable freelancers to filter job postings by respective hiring history. It would also support clients' option to maintain open job postings when additional applicants may be considered after a prior hire.


Will L wrote:

If by "modicum of attention to detail", Petra, you mean a willingness to explore, detail and even sometimes just guess at every nuance of Upwork's opaque maze of rules, protocols, undeclared policies


No, I mean looking at the "activities on this job" field which clearly states if one (or more people) have already been hired. That's hardly obscure or particularly difficult.

 


Will L wrote:

 

Do you know whether freelancers are submitting proposals on projects where the client has no intention of hiring more freelancers?


I'm sure they do.

If they want to apply to a project despite the fact that someone has already been hired, that may well be the outcome.

 

Let me also remind you that I merely responded to your demand that  "the project's Upwork page should clearly note when at least one freelancer has already been hired,"  to let you know that this is already the case.

 

clear enough.jpg

 

hired.jpg

 

 

Will, as  noted, when posting a RFP, the client has the option of closing the RFP or not.  It is not Upwork's purview to make that decision for the client.

 

Stop nitpicking nonsense, please.

I have had a question for a while now, and it's never been answered but a comment in this thread made me think about it again. I always used to think that more than 50% of jobs posted on here get taken off platform right away, while other freelancers might do one job for a client on UW, and THEN go off platform. They think this is equitable somehow and I figured once someone knows you skype handle or phone # then how would Upwork know? But then someone posted that Upwork CAN look back at their correspondence. So they'd see that a job was posted, a FL applied, the client contacted the FL and set up a phone interview, and then the client disappeared and the job stayed open forever (because they worked with the FL outside of UW).

 

Am I just totally off base? Because otherwise I don't get why so many jobs would get posted and then just get abandoned.

 

 

Kelly, many RFPs are posted on multiple sites + potential buyers are under no obligation to hire anyone.

 

While searching the job postings, I've noticed that some jobs where the client has set it as hourly and UpWork requires 6 connects ..... I think should not be 6.

 

One I ran across today was 6 connects, but at the end of the job the customer was only paying $50.00. 

 

Is it just because of the hourly status?

 

What's going on with the connnects required to submit a proposal? Over the last two weeks or so there have been huge inconsistencies, enough to be noticeable. For instance, to bid on a simple, one time design for a brochure, using an hourly rate of 25.00 - 50.00, the required connects are 2, which seems reasonable. HOWEVER, the reason I'm writing is that while viewing "similar jobs" by client for the above posting, there was a second job the client had posted. The ONLY difference is that their hourly budget was 25.00 - 55.00, which bumped the connects requirement up to 6! This confirms my suspicion that over the last couple weeks, connects seemed unusually high for simple, quick and easy, one time postings.

 

Also, I wish to address that the spread required for connects, which seems incorrectly listed. When the new connects program was rolled out, it was explained that there would be three tiers: 1-2, 3-4, and 5-6 connects in order to submit a proposal. However, every post reviewed either requires 2, 4, or 6 connects, not 1, or 3, or 5. So there is a second obvious glitch that needs addressing. Otherwise, just be straight forward with your terms and say that it will be either 2, 4, or 6 connects, which translates to 30 cents, 60 cents, and 90 cents per bid. At the end of the day, it is about using a budget to bid. Labeling dollars and cents as connects makes no difference, especially at the end of the month when plans renew.


Kelly B wrote:

I have had a question for a while now, and it's never been answered but a comment in this thread made me think about it again. I always used to think that more than 50% of jobs posted on here get taken off platform right away, while other freelancers might do one job for a client on UW, and THEN go off platform. They think this is equitable somehow and I figured once someone knows you skype handle or phone # then how would Upwork know? But then someone posted that Upwork CAN look back at their correspondence. So they'd see that a job was posted, a FL applied, the client contacted the FL and set up a phone interview, and then the client disappeared and the job stayed open forever (because they worked with the FL outside of UW).

 

Am I just totally off base? Because otherwise I don't get why so many jobs would get posted and then just get abandoned.

 

 


Yes, this is happening. There is little that Upwork can do against this. At some point they hide FLers' profiles from search when they fail to earn on Upwork for a month. One of the reasons is that some use Upwork to connect with clients and then go off-platform and thus earn nothing here.

 

But yes, this is a problem for Upwork.

 

But abandoned job postings have other reasons too. For instance, it happens that a client posts an hourly job and that after discussing with the FLer, they decide to go fixed rate. Or the other way around. In this case, they may send a direct offer or a direct invite and the initial jobs is abandoned, but somebody has actually been hired.

 

 

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"Where darkness shines like dazzling light"   โ€”William Ashbless
cmdcodemaster
Member

For, its good. Because of high proposal on the job. Now other simple job post just have a 10 proposal unlike before it ahs 20 - 50 proposals.

a1_zafar
Member

6 connects to apply should be abolished. 

Contractors/freelancers should be given at least 60 ot 90 applications quota per month. And freelancer with paid plus membership should be given unlimited numbers of applications to apply on jobs.

6 connects to apply for a job is forcing basic plan freelancers to get paid plus membership. 

This is unjustified. Upwork also charges 20% service fee+$0.99 on each withdrawal.

This 6 connects to apply condition is killing those poor and hardworking freelancers those are providing services at meager lowest cost as compared to market rates of full time employed workers with all  beneifts. Long term freelaners don't get any medical, pension or benovelant financial assistance.