Connects not returned after a job expired or was closed

[eleanor-creative]

I received a notification from Upwork that a job I had submiited a proposal had 'expired or been closed' but my connects have not been returned. Why are we still spending money on applying for these fake jobs posted, wasting our time and money. Can someone tell me how and when I can expect my connects returned due to timewasters posting jobs they don't intend to hire.

[petra_r]

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Eleanor M wrote:

Can someone tell me how and when I can expect my connects returned.

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Never. Connects are not returned when job posts expire.

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Eleanor M wrote:

 timewasters posting jobs they don't intend to hire.

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How would you know what the client's intention was?

[eleanor-creative]

Can you please supply your source from Upwork where it says connects are not returned for closed or expired posts. Thanks.

[feed_my_eyes]

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Eleanor M wrote:

Can you please supply your source from Upwork where it says connects are not returned for closed or expired posts. Thanks.

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There are hundreds, if not thousands, of posts about this. But here's a direct link: https://support.upwork.com/hc/en-us/articles/211062898-Use-Connects

[eleanor-creative]

Thank you. It is just robbery, in effect paying for a product that doesn't exist. Totally unethical.

[feed_my_eyes]

How dramatic - as if Upwork put a gun to your head and forced you to buy connects. What other type of business can you start, and have no expenses? It costs money to run a website and pay for the advertising that brings clients here. If you can get clients yourself without spending a few dollars a month, then why don't you do so?

[eleanor-creative]

Ok, I have 30 years in the industry and at one time before free market capitalism went crazy,  **Edited for Community Guidelines** to which  **Edited for Community Guidelines**is totally accecptable and normal (IT IS NOT NORMAL) people and companies HAD TO PAY TO PLACE JOB ADVERTS IN SITUATIONS VACANT, they paid a small fortune of thousands for each job advert placed. I worked in the classified for a newspaper, who charged extra for making their job advert availabe online. 

It's totally switched because there are few jobs it's a buyers market, sadly because companies like UpWork, Total, Indeed etc are cashing in on unethical people posting fake jobs.. Truth.

[bevcam]

I can understand that you feel frustrated Eleanor, particularly if you're just starting out and not earning much on UW yet. But while some jobs might be fake, many that don't hire aren't. 

UW clients are no different from employers in the job market - they often cast their nets wide using various different platforms to find the person they want. UW has no control over that.

Learn to be very selective when you apply. I always look at the clients' history including freelancers' feedback and what their hire rate is in comparison to jobs posted. To me, the wording of the post also says a lot. Someone who's serious would at least take the time to give some detail; I ignore posts that give very vague descriptions because they either don't know what they're looking for or they're just casting a line to see who bites (IMO). Employers often do that (as unfair as it is) to get market info on levels of experience, rate of pay, etc. UW would also not know that.

[eleanor-creative]

I'm not just starting out, I have 30 years experience in the industry, when on upwork I do research the posting person/company, this is very time consuming investing time to investigate the posters of each job that 'again from investing time in reading, downloading their uploads etc) isn't worth the effort when they are too lazy to remove the job advert. This of course is giving Upwork a lucrative income. It's in their interest to post these jobs themselves with all the credits they're keeping that will add up to a few million for a product purchased but wasn't available to the consumer of it (freelancer)... It should be illegal, it is legal robbery.

[prestonhunter]

re: "when on upwork I do research the posting person/company, this is very time consuming investing time to investigate the posters of each job that 'again from investing time in reading, downloading their uploads etc) isn't worth the effort when they are too lazy to remove the job advert."

I have never done that. I don't research posting companies or persons at all. I never even do a Google search on them.

It is not necessary to do this.

The only information I look at is what is available on Upwork itself, and what the prospective client tells me.

re: "It should be illegal, **Edited for Community Guidelines**"

You have said that the way Upwork functions at this time is unethical. You have said that it should be illegal. You have said that it is robbery.

Why are you actively working as a freelancer on a platform that is unethical and whose practices you believe are illegal, or should be illegal?

[eleanor-creative]

Ok, so most people say you have to research to some extent ie: if they have Payment Verified if they have a history of hires etc.. Obviously the name of the company/person is not present when they post a job but sometimes there are links to clues of who they respresent. ie: mafia.

When I first came here connects did not exist. Connects not being returned from job expiry or closed is appauling and if you're not appauled there's something wrong with your moral compass.

[bevcam]

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Eleanor M wrote:

Connects not being returned from job expiry or closed is appauling and if you're not appauled there's something wrong with your moral compass.

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Okay 

[prestonhunter]

re: "Ok, so most people say you have to research to some extent ie: if they have Payment Verified if they have a history of hires etc."

Yes. One should do that. I do that.

I look at the client information available on Upwork.

I don't do any sort of research outside of Upwork.

[eleanor-creative]

There is no product to buy but they're taking money for no product (when a job expires or closes).. **Edited for community guidelines**

[eleanor-creative]

They already make 23% from every hire, why do they need to be so greedy they can't return a few connects.

[moonraker]

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Eleanor M wrote:

They already make 23% from every hire, why do they need to be so greedy they can't return a few connects.

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Greedy?

They lose millions every year!

[eleanor-creative]

They charge for membership and pro and plus accounts as well. Please can you link to the source of their losses. Official. Thanks.

[moonraker]

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Eleanor M wrote:

They charge for membership and pro and plus accounts as well. Please can you link to the source of their losses. Official. Thanks.

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Here:
https://investors.upwork.com/news-releases/news-release-details/upwork-reports-second-quarter-2020-f...

[petra_r]

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Eleanor M wrote:

Please can you link to the source of their losses. Official. Thanks.

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Read Upwork's official quarterly reports. 

Bottom line: You don't like Upwork. Don't use it. You've barely done so anyway, so I am somewhat puzzled why you get yourself into quite such a (very public) state over a website you've hardly used and don't like.

[prestonhunter]

Eleanor:
I have often pointed out that there was a certain purity about the Upwork system when there was absolutely no money required to become a freelancer, and absolutely no money required to apply for jobs.

I preferred things the way they were then.

I admired that system.

Clearly you agree with me about that.

I understand your concerns about the current system.

I do not believe that we have a right to tell somebody else how to set up their website or business when it comes to these specific matters.

I have chosen to accept the system and use it. If you don't want to use the system as it is now, I would completely understand. I think that for many people, whether because the system doesn't work well for them or for philosophical reasons... NOT using Upwork as it exists now is a valid, logical choice.

I would agree with you if you believe that the current paid connects system does not work well for everybody.

[eleanor-creative]

That's a sensible and honest reply, appreciated, thank you. It doesn't mean I agree with everything but I respect your view.

[feed_my_eyes]

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Preston H wrote:

I would agree with you if you believe that the current paid connects system does not work well for everybody.

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It's not supposed to work well for "everybody", though, since there aren't enough jobs for all of the freelancers who want one. If you can't convince clients to hire you often enough, then you're better off not continuing to waste your time or theirs. So when people get bent out of shape saying that Upwork must give them free connects (or refund their connects) or they'll stop using this website, then they're missing the point that that's exactly what's supposed to happen.

[eleanor-creative]

I think you're missing the point, please refer to original post, it's not about using connects, it's about not getting them back when a job was fake, expired or was closed with no hires. Do you understand why this is a real problem of freelancers being ripped off paying for a product (job) that was fake (no hires, no cancel no interviews). In such circumstances connects should be returned as the job applied to was not valid.

[petra_r]

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Eleanor M wrote:
.....real problem of freelancers being ripped off paying for a product (job) that was fake (no hires, no cancel no interviews). In such circumstances connects should be returned as the job applied to was not valid.

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When you buy connects, you are not "buying a job"

You are buying the opportunity to apply. That's all you are buying. And that's exactly what you're getting.

Clearly, if that offers a poor ROI for you, you're perfectly welcome not to buy any connects ever again.

[eleanor-creative]

Ok, so let me make this clear you are buying an opportunity to apply for work that doesn't exist. End of..

[eleanor-creative]

I don't think it's buying a job and I have never bought connects. It's never wise to 'presume' but if the job expires or is closed then surely those connects should be returned. Upwork may employ staff to post these non jobs, raking in millions from connects.

[feed_my_eyes]

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Eleanor M wrote:

Upwork may employ staff to post these non jobs, raking in millions from connects.

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It's rather serious to accuse a company of fraud and theft - do you have any proof whatsoever that this is occurring? Or, if you use your critical thinking skills, is one of the following scenarios perhaps more likely?

1. The client initially received several nonsensical bids from low-quality freelancers and left this website, vowing never to return (this is my personal theory of why most clients abandon their job posts). 

2. The client did find a freelancer to hire, but the freelancer convinced them to go off of Upwork in order to save themselves the service charges.

3. The job WAS fake, but it was posted by a freelancer - not by Upwork - in order to spy on their competitors.

4. The client hired on another website, found somebody through a referral, their project got delayed, they lost their job, their budget was cut, they became ill, a family member died - you get the idea - and perhaps the last thing on their mind was, "Gee, my number one priority right now is to close my Upwork post so that those freelancers don't lose 60 cents."

[m_terrazas]

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Eleanor M wrote:

I don't think it's buying a job and I have never bought connects. It's never wise to 'presume' but if the job expires or is closed then surely those connects should be returned. Upwork may employ staff to post these non jobs, raking in millions from connects.

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Christine and Petra have already given you all the information possible. Is this just a matter of stubbornness?

You're going around and around something for which there is plenty of information, both in the help and on the forums.
Have you read the TOS and help? Have you looked for this same topic in the forums?
You're just one more accusing Upwork of posting fake jobs.
Do not give it more laps, if this system does not work for you (and they will not change it to your liking), nobody forces you to continue on the portal.

And if you have really read the TOS and the help, you should know that, to avoid problems, it is better not to have contact information in your profile.

[eleanor-creative]

It's a conversation, a disgussion, there clearly is no solution here, I didn't know connects were not returned when a poster didn't  hire or didn't remove the job. I am shocked to discover this. This is news to me because this wasn't the TOS previously. If we didn't express our disgust at corporate greed and be active then we're massively oppressed by powerful shareholders wanting more and more profit. Now I know they are unethical I will have to reasses my own involvement but one thing is for sure, I will not be buying membership or connects. 

[petra_r]

I will have to reasses my own involvement. 

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Please do! You're not "involved" anyway. 

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Eleanor M wrote:

one thing is for sure, I will not be buying membership or connects. 

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Valid choice. It's not as if you've done any contracts in a year or much at all ever.

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Eleanor M wrote:

345 million  revenue expected for 2020 for Upwork and you guys think that is perfectly ok to not return a few credits for bogus job posted.

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Please get someone to explain the difference between "revenue" and "profit" to you.

I am still not clear why you are so obsessed with this stuff when you don't even use the platform

[eleanor-creative]

Obviously if I haven't had connect returned I am 'involved' (sigh).

[petra_r]

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Eleanor M wrote:

Obviously if I haven't had connect returned I am 'involved' (sigh).

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You said you've never bought any connects so how are you in any way hard done by? 

[eleanor-creative]

Because as a member I am given connects to use as part of my membership. There would be no point me being here if I had no connects as I'm not a stupid person who's willing to buy connects to waste on bogus jobs. 

[lysis10]

Well this thread was entertaining.

I hope Daddy Upwork keeps doing all the things to me people claim he's doing because I"m pretty happy.

[m_terrazas]

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Eleanor M wrote:

It's a conversation, a disgussion, there clearly is no solution here, I didn't know connects were not returned when a poster didn't  hire or didn't remove the job. I am shocked to discover this. This is news to me because this wasn't the TOS previously. If we didn't express our disgust at corporate greed and be active then we're massively oppressed by powerful shareholders wanting more and more profit. Now I know they are unethical I will have to reasses my own involvement but one thing is for sure, I will not be buying membership or connects. 

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This has been active from a time.

This is definitely just stubbornness. 
First, you have to be up to date with what changes in the portal, you can go from time to time in the forums or you go through "Annuncements". 

Since you are so worried about connects, do you know, for example, that now they will give 10 free connects every month and another 10 each time you get a response to a proposal (there is a maximum amount, but you can get the rest of the information by yourself)?

You can't blame Upwork that you don't have all the information.
And even less, blame them for a crime.

[eleanor-creative]

345 million  revenue expected for 2020 for Upwork and you guys think that is perfectly ok to not return a few credits for bogus job posted.

https://www.upwork.com/press/releases/upwork-reports-fourth-quarter-and-full-year-2019-financial-res...

[feed_my_eyes]

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Eleanor M wrote:

345 million  revenue expected for 2020 for Upwork and you guys think that is perfectly ok to not return a few credits for bogus job posted.

https://www.upwork.com/press/releases/upwork-reports-fourth-quarter-and-full-year-2019-financial-res...

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So again, in what way are jobs "bogus" just because the client decided not to hire anyone? (Judging by some of the profiles that I've seen on Upwork lately, not hiring anyone is often the right decision.)

Bottom line, if you're struggling here, then might it be a better idea to ask for advice, instead of claiming that jobs are fake and you're being oppressed (seriously?). Presumably you're here because you need to make money, so do you want to figure out how to do that, or not?

[eleanor-creative]

I'm not struggling here, please don't presume things, it's very ignorant to presume things. I just got a notification a job I applied to had been closed or expired, I don't even remember the job, I only ever looked for small jobs of 'a day' or less while I have a little time awaiting clients getting back to me in the real world. I have good clients this is just something to browse when I'm bored and have free time. Whatever my reason I am justified in complaining that Upwork keeps profiteering unethically by not returning connects from bogus jobs. You prove to me they arn't bogus. Expiry or closed jobs, is a non job, return my credits (I have never bought credits but I would be angry if I had, it's daylight robbery).

[VladimirG]

Hi all,

Hope you're having a great weekend. Please note that a few posts have been removed and edited on this thread since their content violated Community Guidelines. I'm closing this thread for further responses. Thank you for your feedback and participation, please do keep in mind our Guidelines when posting in the Community forums.