First time going through arbiration, will I win?

[superbb123]

This is the first time I go through arbiration. I have handed on all the work, even done extra work, then the client closed the contract and asked for refund. This is because we had an agruement of the payment that the inital price should be $300 and she funded only $200, it was my fault that I fould it out after I have finished my work. I told her that she should fund another $100 given that's what we had agreed and I have done extra work, she rejected and I said in this case she should not use my work. I have deleted some of my work on our chat, however, I have sent files from time to time, she had plently of time to download it, also I have sent them via email. Now she claimed that she has never received any files, will I lose the arbiration cause I deleted part of the work in our chat? What should I do, resend part the work again?

[bui]

Hi Waki, 

I had once experienced this kind of behavior, works thats been sent or done, usually we still need to send it under arbiration and usually Upwork will try to negotiate with you and client, either client pay as agreed or you finish the job without additional budget so this is so far that I know, and there is an option also we will be asked to do a partial refund for uncompleted work, but this is also will rely on the terms of conditions, if its fixed price, then you are not required to refund but if its hourly method then Upwork will scan the work diary and judge from there.

Hope this can help you..

[afaytaren]

Hourly Contracts dont have Arbitration, so this is definitely a Fixed Price Contract.

The amount being contended is $200 as that was what was put in Escrow although they have an agreement of $300.  You are only able to contest for Arbitration the $200 amount as that is what was only deposited in Escrow.  If work was already sent before and the Client had plenty of time to download it eventhough the Freelancer has deleted it,  you can resent it during the mediation or Arbitration.

[bui]

makes sense... but I think hourly also has arbitration period if I am not mistaken. but for this case yes its a fixed price, and freelancers are not required to return or has the 100% control (if the amount is already paid or released)

[superbb123]

Yes I'm talking about the $200. Now the client claims that I deleted part of the files so she received nothing. (Still 4 files in chat, all files via sent email and 1 in sumbit your work section) I also said that she can't use work if she refused to pay, then now she said she is not allowed to use my work. Is it too late now I send in chat that she can use part of my work if she paid that amount and send part of the files?

[the-right-writer]

I don't understand why you didn't submit the work through the "submit work" program? It still comes through in messages. Were you using Upwork or a social media email?

If you told the client that they could not use the work, then they have an issue. You agreed to do the job for $200, and you agreed to the contract. If you wanted $300.00, then you made an error. You can't punish the client and withhold the work. Understand this was your error. I don't know if the client intentionally put less in escrow, or if you weren't clear in discussion, but the bottom line is you made an error by accepting less, then you compounded your error by blaming it on the client, and denying access to work, so the client has nothing for their money, or at least it looks that way.

Why are you only going to send part of the job? Do you want to make the client even more angry? Why do you want to send part of the files? How many milestones did you have? If the contract said, do this work, submit all of it and get paid, then that's what you have to do. You cannot withhold work because you don't like the contract. The client is saying you did not give them all of the work, and you are admitting it, with the "part of the files."

Yes, I would reach out to the client, politely, and be nice. Do not accuse them of wrongdoing, or try to state your case. Admit that you have made errors, but be firm that you have provided all files, and do so again, through the "submit work" program. I don't think there is anything you can say that will make them give you another $100, or pay the $200 without the work, but stranger things have happened. If the client says no, do not whine, demand, or anything other than say, OK. Your client is already angry, and pleading or demanding won't help. You can be firm about your case, without being accusatory towards the client.

If you don't have every piece of work, and can show it was delivered through "submit work" I don't see how you have a chance. Obviously, you must be going for principle, because it makes no sense to spend $333 and change for $200, minus Upwork's cut, connects, and all other expenses.

If you want any chance to win, you have to give the client the work that was agreed on in the contract.

[superbb123]

No, the initial price was $300, she only funded $200, I have asked her to add the fund but she did not respond to me, I still continued my work cause I trusted her that she would add the fund afterward. I actually provided extra work cause she was keep pushing, that's why I can only provide part of the work, because the initial price was higher plus I have done extra work. I have also submitted in "sumbit work section", chat and email. 

[the-right-writer]

You may have wanted $300, but according to you, only $200 was funded. If you did not have a split payment arrangement, you should have stopped and notified the client that the job was not set up as you wished, and you would do no work until the client funded it. It was your error that you did the work beyond what it was worth to you. You could see exactly what was paid, funded, and in milestones. The client doesn't have to fund the entire job. You say you continued to work because you trusted her. You can't trust anyone online. Upwork is no different from a random chat room, where you don't know who people are or their intentions. You have a contract to ensure everyone follows the agreement.

If there was no communication, how was she pushing you for extra work? If extra work was not in the contract, then you volunteered for it.

The client has the right to have the work done by the deadline, for the amount in the contract. They do not have to accept part of the work given to them on the eve of arbitration.

I don't know how I can make this any clearer. You agreed to a contract for "X" amount of work for "Y" amount of money. The client funded "Y" not "Z" as you wanted, but you agreed to the contract, without saying anything to the client. You then worked beyond "Y" but kept part of the work. Why should it surprise you the client is unhappy and doesn't want to pay you? What you should have done is recognized you messed up, and vow to never let it happen again, by vetting the job and having a detailed look at the job and requirements.

I'm telling you how to prevent this from happening again, because while I appreciate your interest in the principle of the matter, you need to understand the errors you made, because you, and only you, can prevent them in the future.

[superbb123]

I have asked her twice why the $100 was missing, she didn't answer me and she said she needed it urgently so I focused on my work. She kept asking for extra work like revisions and to add some design elements. I kept pushing back but she was not listening to me. There was no communication after the 3rd time I asked her to fund the milestone, at that point I have already handed on all my work, she just closed the contract. It's not only about does she have my files, she has seen my design, my concept. She could have stole my concept and hire a cheaper designer to do it, she can't unseen my concept at this point. Yea I was stupid, I thought I was helping her so I didn't expect she would did it to me now. 

[the-right-writer]

You aren't stupid, you made bad choices. It's a hard way to learn. The good thing is, now you know how to avoid this situation. When you set up the contract, it's crucial to deal with scope creep. You must have everything in the contract. If it isn't in the contract, then there needs to be extra milestones or additional hours allotted. Or another contract might be needed.

Try to let this go for now, because you have the arbitration coming up. If you have submitted the work, there isn't much more you can do now.

When you work with a client, they will own the property, and can do with it what they want. The client is going to get the work before being paid, so you run the same risk with them taking your design.

[superbb123]

upwor didn't help me at all, they didn't even read my info. They asked to give them full refund cause the client didn't receive any file, that's why now we need to go trought arbration. 

[the-right-writer]

The client is going to win if you did not give them all of the work. Resubmit though the "submit work" program.

[wlyonsatl]

Arbitration costs both you and the client $337.50 each. Are you sure you are willing to pay this fee for arbitration to potentially receive an award of the amount you believe you are owed?

Arbitration – Upwork Customer Service & Support | Upwork Help

Upwork Legal Center (See Appendix A)

If not, Upwork also provides no cost non-binding mediation for such disputes.

[superbb123]

Yes we both agreed, my question here is I have deleted some of the files in chat, however I have sent her files in email and sumbit work section, will they consider that I didn't hand on anything so I will lose?

[wlyonsatl]

If you can't prove you sent the required files to the client, I'd guess you have less chance of winning the full amount of payment your were expecting.

[superbb123]

Does email also count? I have sent via there. 

[the-right-writer]

If you submitted the work properly through Upwork, it is still there. If you only sent it through chat, it should still be there. Even if the client deleted their messages somehow, your work should be showing.

If you used the program properly, your messages and work would still be there. Even if you delete the work from the messages, it is still in the Upwork system, and will show you what files you have submitted.

No one can tell you the outcome. I will say that if the client is going to spend $333+, they must feel pretty confident and have some reason they feel you did not complete the project. If the client says they never received any work, you should have the proof t hand, or you will have a problem.

[superbb123]

$100 was missing from the milestone, hence I told her that she should fund it or she shouldn't use my work, her stance now is that I have deleted part of the files and I have said that she shouldn't use it. The arbitration hasn't started yet, can I resend the files now and tell her she can use part of it? 

[bui]

Sometimes client tried to make use of our eagerness on getting a job, getting hired etc. But if you have done your job well, and client still wont pay, sometimes its just our loss to take it in, its not easy but either way you can start by communicating with your client, and see if she can agree to add in more or you go down a tune, but anyway both of you need to agree on some things that will work out. 

to keep the arbitration.. In my case last time, I still allow clients to use my work and I let go of the payment as I know I have to bite it hard. 

[the-right-writer]

If $100 was missing, you shouldn't have started the work. You are responsible for everything you do as a freelancer. With fixed price you make sure the current milestone is funded or if only one milestone, you make sure the whole job is funded before beginning work. You should have sent a file, been paid for that milestone, then made sure the next one was funded.

Please read my full response in another post. If you have any intention of winning, you have to give the client the files.

[superbb123]

I have sent them via sumbit work button and email, it's just I have deleted part of it in my chat. Can I resend part of it again while we are going to arbitration?(will start to

Tomorrow I think) but I guess my client will argue it's too late, she doesn't want it anymore. 

[the-right-writer]

Yes, that is what the client will probably say, since you were hired to deliver them and didn't.

[spectralua]

Will already said that arbitration cost is $337.50

You will fight for $200. Your profit -$117 if you win or -$337 if client will win.

What a goal? It isn't a money for sure.

My advice: send all works and take your $200. Leave true feedback about client trick. Take lesson. Next time check escrow before start.

[superbb123]

The point is the client has to spend 337 with me together, it is only for justice. Can I still send the works even we are going to have arbitration? We have both paid but it has not start yet.

[spectralua]

Sure, you still can send files. But if arbitration will be at client favour (full refund) then client cannot use works because it is unpaid.

[afaytaren]

If you already sent the file or work before,  just provide evidence that you sent it as well as what were the contents.  As you said you sent it via email,  you can provide a screenshot of it to the Dispute Agent as they only have access to the messages you have with your Client in your Contract Room.

[superbb123]

Do they also consider email screenshot? 

[afaytaren]

As far as I know, yes.

[wlyonsatl]

This is a very good reason to always send files to a client via Upwork messaging.

Even if they ask for files via email, send a copy of your message and the files via the Upwork message board for the project.

Freelancer defensively!