I made an Upfront Payment to a freelancer

[b0cedf81]

Hello Guys,

I made a mistake and unfortunately made an upfront payment to a freelancer. For various reasons, I now have a bad feeling about the delivery now! Yes, I know that I should never do this, but unfortunately, I let myself be talked into it 😞 I have not done it before!

According to Upwork support, the freelancer can pay out the money only after 5 days. I created the job on August 31 and released the payment (3 days ago). That means I may still have a chance to get the money. I am already in contact with Upwork support about this case.

Here briefly some more details about the case:

• 2 milestones: first mile stone (upfront payment), second-mile payment only after reaching the goals.
• Freelancer told me, she needs the money for Beautragung of the Freelancer which she assigns herself, otherwise, she could not start
• She told me that nothing could happen because she will get the money after 15 days anyway and everything is safe through Upwork -> lie! - According to support it is only 5 days.
• She also told me that she created a great profile on Upwork, but it was closed by Upwork because of inactivity (inactive because of her mother's death). So now she created a new profile and it is under construction (only made $600) -> lie! Answer from Upwork Support: A freelancer can request to activate their account at any time if it is inactive. 

• I have also talked to the freelancer on the phone, but she has deactivated the video (should have been a warning sign already!)

• She also sent me screenshots of previous jobs on Upwork with the amounts the clients paid. There are also some customer names on the screenshots. I have sent these to Upwork support and am having them check them!

My concerns are (based on the above narratives) that she is now waiting for the money, paying it out, and then deleting the Upwork profile and creating a new one. Unfortunately, I now have a totally bad feeling and can well imagine that this can be a rip-off.

These are all signs that she wants to rip me off, right? Is there anything else I can do besides reporting the case to Upwork Support? After the first response from Upwork, I don't feel that they can help me. This is what I got in response:

"Now that the funds have been released, you do not really have security as a client anymore. You still do have the option of submitting a request for dispute assistance for 30 days from when you released the payment to her but even with a dispute, there is no guarantee of a refund because we do not have control over funds that a freelancer has withdrawn from the platform."

Has anyone ever had a case like this? If so, how did you solve it? Did you still get the money back?

Looking forward to your help!

Thank you so much!

[yofazza]

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And as you now know, be very careful  on this site where its business model has now changed from providing quality freelancers into something I'm not sure of. Fake portfolio and manipulated profile are common even before the changes.

In general it's safer to test a freelancer with small work first, but it's not really feasible for marketing tasks.

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You should try the dispute but if it fails what's left is a forbidden option.

[b0cedf81]

Thanks, Radia for your quick feedback. How do I open a dispute? Doesn't the freelancer have to agree to the dispute?

What do you mean with "forbidden option"?

[yofazza]

I'm not sure how to dispute a released milestone, but I've seen it happen. I'll just keep talking to support. You're right about the money will be withdrawable in 5 days and you can still get assistance even after that.

For disputing funds still in milestone, you can take a look here.

And it's also true what Support said about there being no guarantee whatsoever.

As for the forbidden option, it's so forbidden that explaining it means breaking the community forum rules. I can only say that you should still have a way to get your money back if Upwork can't help you with the scamming freelancer.

[b0cedf81]

Ok, then I will wait for the answer from support.

I am no longer sure about the 5 days, because there have been some freelancers here in the forum who have asked why they have not received their money after 15 days. So the 15 days can also be true!

As for the forbidden option, it's so forbidden that explaining it means breaking the community forum rules. I can only say that you should still have a way to get your money back if Upwork can't help you with the scamming freelancer.

>> So I have theoretically still this option, right? Maybe I give the freelancer wrong, but currently speaks much for a great rip-off method! 🙂

[prestonhunter]

re: "Ok, then I will wait for the answer from support."

As a client, I have hired over 180 freelancers. One of the reasons I am so successful as a client is that I know where the buttons are and I know how to use them.

I never contact Support form help managing my freelancers and projects.

You too can learn where the buttons are.

That is far less frustrating than asking Support for help.

[feed_my_eyes]

The OP was very obviously the victim of a scam and IMO should absolutely try to get their money back; plus the freelancer should be reported for ToS violations. Maybe you don't mind when freelancers screw you over, but that doesn't mean that everybody else wants to turn the other cheek and reward a scammer with free money, thus encouraging them to scam other clients.

[b0cedf81]

I have already admitted that I made a mistake! 😉 And I know where the buttons are 😄

[yofazza]

15 days (14 actually) is the time limit where a client must "act" (approve, or request a revision) on a milestone release request by the freelancer. Once it's released (either by the client or by the system after 14 days), it will enter the 5 days security period.

Btw if you look at Preston's reply below, hourly project is actually safer and more convenient for both client and the freelancer, provided it's done in the correct way.

Fixed price project can be quite safe also, by separating the project into smaller milestones. But, "beauftragung" shouldn't be used as milestone. It's by default not allowed to 'outsource' a project.

The 'deleted profile' thing is also means that the freelancer is banned forever because they're not allowed to create a second account.

There are so many wrong there. Looking at how Upwork has 'failed' to 'educate' the client (aka the money source), we freelancers (me at least) should understand a few things that is happening on our side as well.

[spectralua]

I think no deleted profile there. Lie is not a violation here so tricky freelancer is safe.

But at other platforms such freelancer will be banned asap.

[yofazza]

It's on bullet point #4. Don't know the detail but creating a second account is a no-no for sure.

[spectralua]

Freelancer got own $600 so was verified. It is not possible to pass verification for double account. Thats why i think it is a firs account.

ps. Or with new Upwork policy verification no more actual and any scammer free to register bots now.

[feed_my_eyes]

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Mykola A wrote:

Freelancer got own $600 so was verified. It is not possible to pass verification for double account. Thats why i think it is a firs account.

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Of course it's possible; freelancers have reported getting away with starting new accounts multiple times. 

[yofazza]

Not using the same ID card, I'm sure there are tricks to pass ID verification. Having multiple accounts might be more common than we think.

The freelancer in question also deactivated video when called.

[b0cedf81]

I have to correct that. The disabled video was because she is a woman Muslim and it is not allowed according to faith!

[yofazza]

I'm a muslim, and that really sounds like an excuse for having a different picture in the profile photo. Some "levels of faith" may prevent muslim women from doing that, but in that case they should avoid becoming freelancers on sites like this in the first place.

Currently we are on day 05. I have asked the freelancer that she gives me a detailed plan for the next few days, so I know what will be implemented the next few days. I have to intervene before day 15 at the latest!

This is for milestone two? Let's assume the worst that you're really scammed. You should at least stop working with the scammer.

If it's for milestone 1, the "upfront payment", for where you said the funds have already been released, the money is withdrawable to the freelancer's bank account on day 5. I'd recommend that you first ask support to try to get the money back.

What was the job btw? And what have she done so far? Is Support being slow or not helping?

[b0cedf81]

With the same ID it will not work, but a profile for daughter, brother, etc is possible 😉

[feed_my_eyes]

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Mykola A wrote:

I think no deleted profile there. Lie is not a violation here so tricky freelancer is safe.

But at other platforms such freelancer will be banned asap.

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Creating a second profile is absolutely a ToS violation and the freelancer will be banned.

[b0cedf81]

Currently we are on day 05. I have asked the freelancer that she gives me a detailed plan for the next few days, so I know what will be implemented the next few days. I have to intervene before day 15 at the latest!

[tlsanders]

You don't have the option if you want to continue to use Upwork, because issuing a chargeback through your bank or credit card company is a serious violation of Upwork's TOS.

[prestonhunter]

re: "I made an Upfront Payment to a freelancer"

I am sorry to hear that.

I agree with you: You made a mistake.

Refund thinking hurts clients.

I always advise clients to proactively plan to never ask freelancers for money, no matter what. Never dispute, no matter what. Never ask for a refund.

If a client will follow these simple guidelines, they can save time and save money.

Thinking about refunds costs money.

How to save money?

Monitor a freelancer's work and fire them if you don't love their work.

How to lose money?
Let a freelancer do work, but you are not checking the work. Then find out you can't use the work. Try to get money back, only to find out that you can't get any money back.

[b0cedf81]

So you mean that I should let the freelancer work and if the work is not as desired, then I should intervene? My concern is that the freelancer will let the 15 days pass (after 15 days freelancers get paid) and then close the account!

[yofazza]

The 'intervention' is simply to stop working with the freelancer.

You need to use small milestone for the "test", or an hourly project where you can limit the hour to 1.

[joansands]

Clemens - If I was a client, I would run - not walk - away from a freelancer like that. Why on earth would you want to continue working with her? Ask her to return the money you gave her up front. If she doesn't, close the contract and view it as lesson learned.

[57f44441]

Uowork has lost all credibility.  I'm posting jobs for UK and US freelancers, but am still being spammed by people in Asia.  Even worse,,profiles with fake profile pictures and names.  I try to verify and interview over video call (as is the norm when hiring anyone), but they refuse.

it's a **Edited for Community Guidelines** platform and it's now redundant. 

[PradeepH]

Hi Jay,

I am sorry to hear about your experience. You have the option to choose if you’d like U.S. or U.K. based freelancers or are open to freelancers from around the world while creating a job post. If you choose the U.S., you can even specify the state or time zone. 

I encourage you to use the "Flag as Inappropriate" option throughout the site to report any suspicious activity or fake freelancer profiles. Our teams will review and take action based on our internal guidelines.

- Pradeep