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web_dezine
Community Member

Is payment process not so long ?

Regarding my question, for example:

1. You work on a hourly job and it takes 3 days to complete.

2. Then 4th or 5th day you should get the payment as generally, but on Upwork system if the job started on Monday, and completed on Wednesday then you will have to wait till Sunday to get the hours processed for billing.
3. And Then you have to wait 5 days for client's review on the work diary.

4. And Then 5 more days as security hold.

5. And Then if it's near to weekend then need to hold to request the payment as it gets processed on Weekstart days.

6. And Then it depends on country, bank, etc to reach hard earned money to your account.

So basically If a job started on Jan 6, 2020 the Freelancer will receive funds for sure after Jan 22, 2020.

 

Thanks

23 REPLIES 23
filip_knezevic
Community Member

So let's say you accepted the job this week, and you have worked for one hour.

You colud have worked on Monday or Saturday, it's the same. 

After the week ends, the customer has next week to review your hours and accept/dispute them. After Sunday, hours are approved (or not?) and you will recieve money on next Wednsday. 

So in other words, if you have worked this week, you will get money in 10 days afrter Sunday.

Hope this answers your question.

Now is it too long? That's the entirely subjective question only you can answer.

It's not too long for me, if you ask me.




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Hey Filip,

 

Thanks for showing interest in replying.

 

Yes I understand the process as have been working on Upwork since 2014.

 

Yes the process is long for me, because it can be simply done by having the client review the hours logged / worked by freelancer the next / after 24 hours. Why wait till Sunday if some has worked in starting of week.


Sunny L wrote:

Why wait till Sunday if some has worked in starting of week.


Because the work week does not end until Sunday, and the client is not charged until Monday.

 


Sunny L wrote:

Yes the process is long for me,


Try freelancing in the real world, with many clients paying on net 30 or even 60 day terms...

 

That's the main point, why make Freelancers to wait for the end of "work" week, I think it still doesn't make sense to wait for a whole "work week" followed by security hold and etc.

 

When job is completed, the client should be able to review the work and accept or ask for revision in next 1 or 2 days, and if client is satisfied and accepts the hours logged, then still Freelancer will have to wait for whole "work" week.

 

I have been doing freelancing in real world too, and most of clients make payment as soon as work is done. Even I take 50% upfront and rest 50% just after work is done and client has reviewed / accepted it.

 

30 or even 60 days terms takes place when the work / contract is for long term, only then it looks fine.

 

Just because of a fixed system of "work" week, all freelancers have to wait for whole week to end and then wait for security hold and then working day for withdraw to get processed.


Sunny L wrote:

That's the main point, why make Freelancers to wait for the end of "work" week, I think it still doesn't make sense to wait for a whole "work week" followed by security hold and etc.

The better question is why expect Upwork to invest in a massive revision of its processing system so a few freelancers who did small jobs early in the week can get paid a few days sooner.

It's not about few Freelancers and small jobs which were done starting of week. It's about thousands of Freelancers doing small, medium sized jobs completing anytime of working week.

 

It's as simple as when the fuel is up, you pay the money. While fuel can be checked in seconds, and a technical work takes time to review it doesn't means you have to wait for whole of a week.

 

Also many new clients don't understand the complexity of their work requirement and post the job as hourly thinking about the hourly estimation, so this happens with so many Freelancers, not few, not on small projects.


Sunny L wrote:

It's not about few Freelancers and small jobs which were done starting of week. It's about thousands of Freelancers doing small, medium sized jobs completing anytime of working week.


Have you ever had a conventional job? Did you finish your work day and run to the boss's office to be paid instantly for your eight hours? When you get a bill in the mail from someone who provides services to you, do you race to your computer and make an instant online payment? That's just not how the business world works. There are platforms that promote the fact that they make near-instant payment, but they have one thing in common: they tend to pay absolute bottom-of-the-barrel rates and trade instant gratification for fair wages--in other words, they prey on the desperate. 

 

 

It's as simple as when the fuel is up, you pay the money. While fuel can be checked in seconds, and a technical work takes time to review it doesn't means you have to wait for whole of a week.

 

Okay, if it's as simple as that, then you redesign Upwork's hourly payment system so that it's no longer reliant on a consistent schedule and still ensures that clients have adequate time for review and that Upwork is protected by allowing an adequate escrow buffer. I'm sure Upwork's development team will be surprised and delighted by how simple this task is for you.

 

Also many new clients don't understand the complexity of their work requirement and post the job as hourly thinking about the hourly estimation, so this happens with so many Freelancers, not few, not on small projects.


True. That's why professional freelancers use their experience to advise clients on the best way to approach a project rather than simply accepting the best guess that the client was able to make when posting.

Respectec Tiffany, Its not about convential job here, it's not a company where we work on weekly or monthly basis, except the jobs having a long term contract.

 

Yes it's as simple as that for sure, if could have been in the power to redesign the Upwork system, this would have simpler and easier for all of the Upwork Freelancers and Clients, but if you ask me do that for what I am not capable of, this is not very useful to discuss.

 

Many clients who are not aware of the system are not always convinced or are ready to setup job as the Freelancer suggests that because of sometimes they are in rush, they don't want to understand and follow what the system is built of, they don't respond, and many other reasons.

 

It is a Freelancing platform and should allow Freelancers, who have a profile after so much validations, verifications and qualifying for the skills. So they should not wait for a simple Job like a redesign of Logo in a day to get payment after 2-3 weeks.

Also Upwork should invest time on all of the Freelancers / Contractors, not the ones with small jobs or large ones. Even in small jobs the fee is high. Many small jobs converts many small fees.

 

 


Sunny L wrote:

Also Upwork should invest time on all of the Freelancers / Contractors, not the ones with small jobs or large ones. Even in small jobs the fee is high. Many small jobs converts many small fees.

 

 


But it's much more expensive and labor intensive for Upwork to collect many small fees on many small jobs than it is to collect one mid-sized fee on one larger job. You can tell how much more Upwork values those ongoing relationships by the fact that they are willing to accept 1/4 the amount of fees for an ongoing client relationship in excess of $10,000 as they charge for those tiny jobs.

I am not against the fee on small jobs, but as you said, answers the question. As they are already doing everything to process the fee on small jobs on weekly basis, the system and technology is not manual. They can make it like they do for Fixed Price jobs where a Freelancer works, Clients approves the Milestone and the funds are directly in the security hold period (which is also long, 5 days!).

 

Also stands for bonus payments. Which I understand is about Client making the bonuses intentionally without having to review the work done.

 

Thanks


Sunny L wrote:

They can make it like they do for Fixed Price jobs where a Freelancer works, Clients approves the Milestone and the funds are directly in the security hold period (which is also long, 5 days!).

 

One benefit of hourly jobs for clients is that they require no maintenance. The client can check in on hours if he/she wants to, but can also choose to do nothing--in that case, credit card payments are processed automatically and no participation from the client is required at all. 

 

The client also knows exactly when the review period is each week, and it is the same for every freelancer. So, a client who has many freelancers working on hourly contracts can do a review once a week, rather than 10 different times during the week as different contracts are completed. The consistent schedule also reduces the likelihood that a client will miss the review window, belatedly discover that the freelancer was playing Halo instead of working on the project during billed time, and eat up Upwork resources trying to correct that after the fact. 

 

To me, it seems that you are only thinking about how the system affects you and others in your circumstances and not how a change would impact Upwork clients and staff.

Yes this can be one benefit for clients. But does this means it's all about clients who are having multiple jobs going on together and not the freelancers who worked for a particular job for same client with multiple jobs open.

 

And is it okay for client to review all 10 freelancers' work on same day ? Any client will review the work as soon as possible for him / her the work is done, not all of the clients.

 

So this still has the topic to get discussed.

 

Freelancers who plays "Halo", have to win the the tracker, the activity level, the screenshots, etc to get reviewed by the clients. But that too should not depend on the weekend.

 

Thanks Respected Tiffany,

Sunny


Sunny L wrote:

Yes this can be one benefit for clients. But does this means it's all about clients who are having multiple jobs going on together and not the freelancers who worked for a particular job for same client with multiple jobs open.

 

I would say it's more balancing how important the interest is. Order, predictability, reduction in complications and Upwork disputes, increased likelihood that clients will continue to use the platform, etc, seems to me to clearly outweigh "some freelancers would like to get paid faster."

 

But, if there is a choice to be made then yes, of course it is much more important to please clients who run multiple jobs through the platform than freelancers. Upwork has at least 10x as many freelancers as it needs to run optimally, but every new client who hires here brings new money to the platform, for freelancers and for Upwork.

 

And is it okay for client to review all 10 freelancers' work on same day ? Any client will review the work as soon as possible for him / her the work is done, not all of the clients.

 

Yes, of course it is okay for a client to run his business efficiently, rather than making the terrible business decision to drop everything and run over to review the work diary the minute each freelancer finishes a job. Smart business decisions keep clients in business and able to afford freelancers. And, Upwork's process being fixed protects clients who run their businesses rationally from the sort of whining and harassment that many clients face when using fixed-price jobs.

 

So this still has the topic to get discussed.

 

Freelancers who plays "Halo", have to win the the tracker, the activity level, the screenshots, etc to get reviewed by the clients. But that too should not depend on the weekend.

 

The point is that with a bunch of different review periods based on when each job ends, clients are much more likely to fail to catch that sort of thing during the review period. Having the review period the same every week and the same for every freelancer means the client can easily keep track of those deadlines and use the system as intended.

 

Thanks Respected Tiffany,

Sunny


 

Hi Sunny,

 

I'm new to Upwork, but have been freelancing for 5 years (after being a newspaper journalist for a long time). You are very lucky if your clients in the "real world" pay you that quickly. I have had to send pleasant emails more than once reminding about payment. As a newspaper editor on staff, we had to wait for our twice-monthly paychecks, based on the prior two weeks. The weeks were always based on a set weekly period (Sunday through Saturday), even when paid hourly, which we all were, even as editors. I don't find the Upwork system much different than waiting for a paycheck at work. Just my 02.

Hi Respected Susan,

 

I competely agree about the ways of getting payments on weekly or monthly basis, but important is that this is why the Upwork like portal is in place. Connecting the peope around the world.

 

What about those Freelancers, who design a Logo in a day (5-6 hours) or etc and have to wait for 2-3 weeks to get their income. This is the topic to discuss.

 

I am sure Upwork doesn't focuses only for the Freelancers who "only" have long term contracts. Because when Feeelancers apply for jobs, it's no always a long term job.

 

Upwork is a Freelancing platform as well as a opportunity giving platform where a Freelancer can build a long term working opportunity, but still the Hourly Jobs' payment schedule should be modified.

 

Regards,

Sunny

wlyonsatl
Community Member

Yes, Sunny, your estimate of starting work on an hourly project on Jan. 6 (which will be included in the Upwork work week ending Jan. 12) and actually being paid by Upwork on Jan. 22 for the hours you tracked during the Jan. 12 work week is correct.

 

Your bank or other account will actually receive funds on or after Jan. 23, depending on what country your account is located in. 

If you want to get paid sooner, Sunny, it is possible you can make that happen using fixed price arrangements. But even there the client has up to 14 days to release payment for completed work.

Yes Mr. Will, the fixed price contracts are more quicker. But not fixed price jobs leads to have Freelancers wait for 14 days because in fixed price jobs clients can release the payments by approving the milestones once the Freelancer has complete the work and they have reivewed and are satisfied.

I don't ever remember waiting the full 14 days to be paid a fixed price milestone, but I don't do nearly as many fixed price projects as hourly projects.

 

I also don't start work on any milestone until a) all previous milestones are fully paid to me by the client and b) the client has fully funded the next milestone. 

Sunny,

 

In my experience, most companies process payroll every week, every two weeks or monthly so they can do all of the accounting, transfers of funds between accounts, etc. 

 

Upwork also has a massive amount of accounting to do when processing billings to clients and payments to freelancers, so it makes sense they only do it once a week rather than daily. (It may not even be doable daily, even with today's technology.)

 

They also need to give clients time to review work submitted by freelancers and give clients time to make payments to Upwork for that work.

 

 

I mostly agree with you Mr. Will.

 

But when the fixed price contracts are given the functionality to get the funds processed from clients accounts to security hold to Freelancers account (without having any wait), then the hourly accounts should also have some sort of system to move forward.

 

Thanks

Yes, Sunny, it could probably be a better system. But it isn't going to change, so each client and freelancer just has to decide if they can live with it.

 

I can, so I don't give it much thought anymore.

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