Jul 6, 2019 07:47:45 AM Edited Jul 6, 2019 08:02:47 AM by Melinda M
I am SOOOO tired of Freelancers bidding low rates. It's not fair to the rest of us that have been on Upwork for many years and have built up some experience for these people to under cut us. I have read other discussions about people from some other countries possibly doing this as money goes a lot futher there, but that is NO excuse. I believe the bids should at least start at a living wage of $15.00 an hour. I wanted to bid on this job and several others but get this a lot. See photo attached. I have also seen other bids that look like this. Bid range - High- $9.00 / Avg- $5.16 / Low- $3.00
What are your thoughts?? Should Upwork change to a rule that bids can not be lower than a living wage?
Jul 6, 2019 08:07:47 AM Edited Jul 6, 2019 08:08:49 AM by Petra R
In your category, you can pretty much forget "Entry Level" job posts. They will never pay what you are worth and the freelancers who bid on them are not your competition, they are simply playing in a completely different market.
When you say "a living wage" then you have to remember that that differs dramatically from country to country.
Personally, I actually think your solution could be to up your rate rather than lower it, and specifically go for the higher level, well-paid contracts so you remove yourself from the pool of the cheap freelancers. You can't beat them on price, so you have to change your approach.
There are clients for every segment of the market, so position yourself in such a way that you appeal to the higher end. Personally, I think you have such a strong and appealing profile that your low price might actually work against you.
You might want to look to go up to $ 20 (my gut says $ 24.99 but that might be extreme in one go) and make a concerted effort to go aggressively after the high end, high priced contracts.
Jul 6, 2019 08:24:23 AM Edited Jul 6, 2019 08:28:11 AM by Melinda M
Hi Petra,
What you wrote makes sense. I also appreciate your compliment about my profile. I am a hard worker with fabulous work ethics and I am proud of the good work I give to the clients. I will take your advice and cross my fingers. I have been out of work for over a month and I am having a hard time getting one. Have had some bites and invitations for interviews, but have not heard back from the clients in days to weeks now. Thank you for your input.
BTW..... There are clients for every segment of the market, so position yourself in such a way that you appeal to the higher end. What is the best way to go about doing this, in your opinion?
Jul 6, 2019 08:43:50 AM by Petra R
Melinda M wrote:
BTW..... There are clients for every segment of the market, so position yourself in such a way that you appeal to the higher end. What is the best way to go about doing this, in your opinion?
I learned it the hard way lol.
You come across as a premium brand (that is my impression when I open your profile) - you look efficient and very polished and competent.... and have priced yourself cheaply which means the clients who want to pay $ 20 to $ 30 an hour (or more) will see your rate and wonder what is wrong with you. It honestly has to be at least $ 20 and realistically $ 25+ soon. Porsche, Mercedes and BMW don't compete with low end cars on price either, do they? They understand that there is a market for little Nissans and there is a market for Porsche. Armani don't worry that you can order a pair of Jeans from China for $ 5 either.
You get the nicer clients too, and they are no harder to win than the cheap ones and so much more rewarding to work with.
Go after the clients who are looking in the $$$ range and likely US only clients (exceptions prove the rule)
Maybe rewrite your overview thinking / rebranding as "Executive Assistant" rather than "Admin Person" - that long lovely feedback from one of your clients really indicates that that's your niche.
Jul 9, 2019 12:16:27 PM by Jennifer R
Melinda M wrote:Thank you SO much for your input. I appreciate it very much.
While updating you profile you also want to remove the link to your website since that contains your contact information.
Jul 23, 2020 07:35:05 AM by Michael W
I think most of us understand markets; cheap vs high and low quality work vs high quality work. Also, being smart and targeting your market.
The issue of low paying job posts remains valid, in my judgement. UpWork SHOULD raise their game by setting some minimums. They would look better as a company that shows standards that freelancers could look up to. With so many workers srtuggling these days, why make it harder on people?
We all have standards in our work, why can't UpWork? The U.S. is slowly raising minimum wage, for example for fast-food workers. Let UpWork follow suit!
A recent example I saw was for an employer in Malibu offering $2/hour!! What? In Malibu? I reported it as inappropriate to UpWork. Let us not forget-UpWork benefits from higher rates too.
Jul 23, 2020 12:04:04 PM by Petra R
Michael W wrote:I think most of us understand markets; cheap vs high and low quality work vs high quality work. Also, being smart and targeting your market.
The issue of low paying job posts remains valid, in my judgement. UpWork SHOULD raise their game by setting some minimums.
Upwork is a global platform. Upwork DOES set minimum rates. The minimum rate for hourly contracts, at $ 3 an hour, is 15 times the minimum wage of one of the countries with the most freelancers on Upwork....
"Wages" are for employment. Freelancing is not Employment.
Jul 23, 2020 01:29:39 PM by Michael W
Jul 23, 2020 01:58:17 PM by Jennifer R
Michael W wrote:
Then why IS UpWork a global platform? If it is US based, it should be a USA
only platform, instead of driving "freelance rates" down. Seems to me that
they should have international divisions, like other companies based in the
US do. International economics dictate international business policies. I
shouldn't have to compete with impoverished countries. Let's leave that up
to Fivrr!
I agree, globalisation really sucks. Why polute the environment of another country to produce cheap goods if you could do it in your own country.
There seems to be a market for a freelance site that caters ONLY to the US
market. Oh, there is! I found one today. Rates are in the range of $100
plus, per hour. At least for the line of business I am in.
I think you have a typo in your profile. It looks like your hourly rate is $30 not $300.
Jul 23, 2020 02:17:23 PM by Amanda L
Michael W wrote:
Then why IS UpWork a global platform? If it is US based, it should be a USA
only platform, instead of driving "freelance rates" down. Seems to me that
they should have international divisions, like other companies based in the
US do. International economics dictate international business policies. I
shouldn't have to compete with impoverished countries. Let's leave that up
to Fivrr!
There seems to be a market for a freelance site that caters ONLY to the US
market. Oh, there is! I found one today. Rates are in the range of $100
plus, per hour. At least for the line of business I am in.
Good luck with that site then.
Upwork being a global platform has not driven my rate down at all. You claim to understand how markets work, yet you still approach Upwork like it's providing employment. Upwork has nothing to do with my rate. I set my rate. Upwork merely provides me a place to connect to people looking for the service I provide.
Do you think that forcing clients to pay $15/hr means they will pay that or just go elsewhere? They will just go elsewhere. I don't care if those clients use Upwork or not because they aren't my clients, and I'm focused on my clients. If someone passes you over to pay someone else $3/hr, then they weren't in the realm of being your client to begin with, since they aren't looking to pay your $30/hr.
FWIW: I hope your profile on the $100/hr site is better set up than here. 🙂
Jul 23, 2020 03:10:27 PM by Nichola L
Michael W wrote:
Then why IS UpWork a global platform? If it is US based, it should be a USA
only platform, instead of driving "freelance rates" down. Seems to me that
they should have international divisions, like other companies based in the
US do. International economics dictate international business policies. I
shouldn't have to compete with impoverished countries. Let's leave that up
to Fivrr!
There seems to be a market for a freelance site that caters ONLY to the US
market. Oh, there is! I found one today. Rates are in the range of $100
plus, per hour. At least for the line of business I am in.
__________________________
It may have escaped your notice that we are (globally) in the middle of a health crisis that is probably going to result in all of us having to completely restructure our lives, our way of thinking, our way of doing business - in fact everything.
I have certainly moaned and griped on Upwork, but the ship still seems to be floating and I for one, am d****d grateful for it.
It may come about that we will all be grasping at $3.00 straws. So let's inject a little reality into the equation, which doesn't look too pretty at the moment.
Jul 23, 2020 03:26:00 PM by Kim F
Michael W wrote:
Then why IS UpWork a global platform? If it is US based, it should be a USA
only platform, instead of driving "freelance rates" down. Seems to me that
they should have international divisions, like other companies based in the
US do. International economics dictate international business policies. I
shouldn't have to compete with impoverished countries. Let's leave that up
to Fivrr!
Well, not everywhere you're competing with is *that* impoverished. From my perspective, it's often the US-based projects driving rates down.
Jul 24, 2020 11:12:28 AM by Mark F
Kim F wrote:
Michael W wrote:
Then why IS UpWork a global platform? If it is US based, it should be a USA
only platform, instead of driving "freelance rates" down. Seems to me that
they should have international divisions, like other companies based in the
US do. International economics dictate international business policies. I
shouldn't have to compete with impoverished countries. Let's leave that up
to Fivrr!Well, not everywhere you're competing with is *that* impoverished. From my perspective, it's often the US-based projects driving rates down.
That is an interesting perspective I would like to hear more, maybe a sidebar in coffee break if you are interested?
Jul 25, 2020 03:02:18 AM by Kim F
Kim F wrote:Well, not everywhere you're competing with is *that* impoverished. From my perspective, it's often the US-based projects driving rates down.That is an interesting perspective I would like to hear more, maybe a sidebar in coffee break if you are interested?
If it makes you happy, I'm up for chatting though I haven't anything deep to say 🙂 The main thing is that I was extremely miffed when I lost access to US projects. I got less miffed when I realised I now make more per project as well as find it easier to discuss decent rates even if I don't get a project.
(And I no longer get people being baffled at me not working weekends.)
Jul 25, 2020 07:42:03 AM by Christine A
Kim F wrote:Kim F wrote:Well, not everywhere you're competing with is *that* impoverished. From my perspective, it's often the US-based projects driving rates down.That is an interesting perspective I would like to hear more, maybe a sidebar in coffee break if you are interested?
If it makes you happy, I'm up for chatting though I haven't anything deep to say 🙂 The main thing is that I was extremely miffed when I lost access to US projects. I got less miffed when I realised I now make more per project as well as find it easier to discuss decent rates even if I don't get a project.
(And I no longer get people being baffled at me not working weekends.)
LOL - I completely agree. When I first started here, most of my clients were Americans, but they're almost all Europeans now. But I wonder if American clients with decent budgets are only - or mainly - posting in the U.S. marketplace now, that's why us foreigners aren't seeing the better jobs. It would make sense if the ones who are opening up their projects to global bids are more likely to be looking for cheap prices.
Jul 25, 2020 04:08:25 PM by Mark F
Kim F wrote:Kim F wrote:Well, not everywhere you're competing with is *that* impoverished. From my perspective, it's often the US-based projects driving rates down.That is an interesting perspective I would like to hear more, maybe a sidebar in coffee break if you are interested?
If it makes you happy, I'm up for chatting though I haven't anything deep to say 🙂 The main thing is that I was extremely miffed when I lost access to US projects. I got less miffed when I realised I now make more per project as well as find it easier to discuss decent rates even if I don't get a project.
(And I no longer get people being baffled at me not working weekends.)
Do you have a theory why you make more and it is easier to discuss decent rates?
Jul 23, 2020 07:41:25 PM Edited Jul 23, 2020 07:52:16 PM by Petra R
Michael W wrote:
Then why IS UpWork a global platform?
LOL....
Michael W wrote:
If it is US based, it should be a USA only platform.
Why? How would that make Upwork more profitable?
Michael W wrote:
I shouldn't have to compete with impoverished countries.
You're not "competing with "impoverished countries" - Looks like despite your low rate, you're not competing with anyone at all.
Michael W wrote:
There seems to be a market for a freelance site that caters ONLY to the US
market. Oh, there is! I found one today. Rates are in the range of $100
plus, per hour. At least for the line of business I am in.
Good luck there then. Maybe you'll manage to win a contract there after having failed to do so here.
I'd suggest you do some serious work on your profile first though.
Jul 24, 2020 07:02:48 AM by Michael W
Yes, my profile needs some work, but how to do that if I don't have a history on this site? I have only been on it just over a week. What would you suggest? How did you get started? I've worked in Corporate jobs my whole car
I find it interesting that you are an UpWork "Guru", but yet you insult inexperienced users on this forum.
Also, I did not start this thread. It was started by somebody else who obviously agrees with me. I was simply agreeing with that person and agree that us freelancers need to bring each other up.
Jul 24, 2020 10:04:00 AM Edited Jul 24, 2020 10:45:19 AM by Petra R
Michael W wrote:
Also, I did not start this thread.
It was your statement that Upwork should be for US freelancers only and your rather ill-informed comments that wound people up.
You don't walk into a bar and tell the owner that most of the regulars are lowlives who should be kicked out and rant how badly the bar is run? All whilst demonstrating rather large gaps in your knowledge of bar-running? Without as much as saying "Hello?"
Jul 24, 2020 03:25:02 PM by Phyllis G
Michael W wrote:Yes, my profile needs some work, but how to do that if I don't have a history on this site? I have only been on it just over a week. What would you suggest? How did you get started? I've worked in Corporate jobs my whole car
I find it interesting that you are an UpWork "Guru", but yet you insult inexperienced users on this forum.
Also, I did not start this thread. It was started by somebody else who obviously agrees with me. I was simply agreeing with that person and agree that us freelancers need to bring each other up.
What Petra, Nichola, Kim, Amanda, Tonya and Christine said. Also...
Your profile is valuable real estate that doesn't need to include your reason(s) for freelancing. Clients don't care that you were downsized. They care whether you can solve their problems.
Freelancing is not simply a matter of hanging out your shingle to do the same work you were doing for an employer. In addition to your professional expertise and experience, successful freelancing requires a whole separate set of wraparound skills. Do yourself a favor and read all you can about it, and figure out how to ramp up your abilities in those areas: identifying good-fit clients and good-fit projects; vetting clients; managing projects, clients, and relationships; understanding inherent pitfalls and learning to recognize them before things slip completely sideways; learning how to handle the inevitable (but hopefully, occasional) sideways slip. When you're freelancing, you're running your own small business and you have to operate in that mindset. Think of UW as the working waterfront that gives you access to the ocean. It's up to you to decide what you're fishing for, how to outfit your boat, what kind of bait to use, and how to catch the kinds and sizes of fish that will make you the most money. It doesn't matter who else is using the wharf or what they're going after or how they're doing it. You do you.
And not for nothing, but the FLs you've been bickering with in this thread represent some of the deepest and most successful experience on the platform. You'd be well served to go out and come in again. We don't suffer fools but we don't hold grudges, either. If you have skills and grit and a thick skin and the ability to look at what you're doing objectively and constantly learn and refine how you're doing it, you'll succeed and there's no reason why UW can't be one of the tools you use.
Jul 24, 2020 04:17:57 PM by Tonya P
Phyllis G wrote:
Michael W wrote:Yes, my profile needs some work, but how to do that if I don't have a history on this site? I have only been on it just over a week. What would you suggest? How did you get started? I've worked in Corporate jobs my whole car
I find it interesting that you are an UpWork "Guru", but yet you insult inexperienced users on this forum.
Also, I did not start this thread. It was started by somebody else who obviously agrees with me. I was simply agreeing with that person and agree that us freelancers need to bring each other up.
What Petra, Nichola, Kim, Amanda, Tonya and Christine said. Also...
Your profile is valuable real estate that doesn't need to include your reason(s) for freelancing. Clients don't care that you were downsized. They care whether you can solve their problems.
Freelancing is not simply a matter of hanging out your shingle to do the same work you were doing for an employer. In addition to your professional expertise and experience, successful freelancing requires a whole separate set of wraparound skills. Do yourself a favor and read all you can about it, and figure out how to ramp up your abilities in those areas: identifying good-fit clients and good-fit projects; vetting clients; managing projects, clients, and relationships; understanding inherent pitfalls and learning to recognize them before things slip completely sideways; learning how to handle the inevitable (but hopefully, occasional) sideways slip. When you're freelancing, you're running your own small business and you have to operate in that mindset. Think of UW as the working waterfront that gives you access to the ocean. It's up to you to decide what you're fishing for, how to outfit your boat, what kind of bait to use, and how to catch the kinds and sizes of fish that will make you the most money. It doesn't matter who else is using the wharf or what they're going after or how they're doing it. You do you.
And not for nothing, but the FLs you've been bickering with in this thread represent some of the deepest and most successful experience on the platform. You'd be well served to go out and come in again. We don't suffer fools but we don't hold grudges, either. If you have skills and grit and a thick skin and the ability to look at what you're doing objectively and constantly learn and refine how you're doing it, you'll succeed and there's no reason why UW can't be one of the tools you use.
I totally hold grudges. 😉
Jul 25, 2020 02:33:15 PM Edited Jul 25, 2020 03:47:42 PM by Joan S
Michael - I would suggest for now that you just work on improving your profile. Flesh out what you have and really spell out what you can do for a client. Leave out personal stuff like being let go from your position. The first two sentences are the most important. Some people won't read beyond that. Once you get a really good profile, make proposals but make really good ones to job posts that you feel qualified for and that you can do - and spell out how you can help the client based on what they said their needs are. Forget those who are cheap. And maybe you should start off with a higher rate. Then - accept the fact that Upwork has in reality millions of freelancers and that to get started you will have to spend some money buying connects and using them. It can be discouraging at first but it does take time to get started. Once you get a job, do the very best you can and try to provide work that is superb. You can do all this but it will take time and effort. Finally, you might want to try to have other income sources than Upwork. Also, don't pay attention to the "guru" designation. That just means the person has made a lot of posts. It doesn't mean they are any kind of expert, just opinionated.