Unauthorized refund

[cecilia_marquez]

Hi, I recently finished a contract with a client on upwork. Things went ok, client got what they asked and finished my contract. Today, a week after the contract was closed I receive an email stating “I refunded” the client money. I haven’t authorized such thing, all hours were under the terms of the contract and logged using the time tracker... I have no idea what just happened.

Please do excuse any possible mistakes, I am currently on mobile.

[wlyonsatl]

Qurtulain W.,

Did you have an Upwork hourly or fixed price contract in place before you started your work for this client?

[c6176e72]

Nope, This was my first hourly contract. Before this I have only worked for some clients with fixed price.

[wlyonsatl]

Quratulain W.,

It looks like Upwork is already working on giving you an answer, but you should never start work for a client who hasn't agreed with you on an Upwork contract. You'll know the contract is in place only when Upwork tells you it is.

The Upwork fees we pay cover many things, only part of which is for payment protection.

[759e32fa]

Hi Quratulain,

Thank you for your question. As a freelancer, you pay the freelancer fee on all billings, including hours, milestones, projects, and bonuses. It is included in the amounts clients see on your proposals, contracts, and profile.

It is not a fee you pay to guarantee that your hours are covered by Upwork's Hourly Payment Protection. As stated in our Terms of Service under Payment Protection for freelancers (Section 6.1 ), "Hourly Payment Protection does not apply to: (a) hours invoiced for work not agreed to or authorized by Client; (b) bonus payments; (c) refunds;..."

Also, we would like to reiterate that any financial transactions outside Upwork such as purchasing for the client are against our Terms of Service. To keep your account secure and avoid getting your account put on hold, we highly recommend that you avoid this moving forward and report any suspicious user activity to our team for review.

[a8db7819]

According to UpWork's own Terms Of Service (Tos) "Low Activity is defined as a segment of time where 50% or more of the screenshots show activity levels below 5. When 50% or more of the hour block is low activity, the entire hour of payment is deducted."

The response from UpWork**Edited for Community Guidelines** was to define this single period at the beginning of the contract as "Low Activity" to deny payment. UpWork conveniently neglected to include the other Time Tracker periods of the contract over successive days (see attached pictures). According to the Screenshots that UpWork included as "proof", there is 1 period of 10 (1/10 = 10%) that could be defined as Low Activity - which occured at the beginning of the contract where the material provided by the client was being read/assessed. However, based on UpWork's violation of its own ToS, they have classified this 10% Low Activity as complete inactivity to deny payment. 

While I have personally resovled the issue with client who provided payment, I am now extremely hesitant to use UpWork for hourly contracts going forward based on their definition of "Low Activity". I can only assume that if as a business, I hire a Freelancer to perform 10 or 100 hours work, then I too can contest it for a single period at any point for activity <50% to accrue free work and deny UpWorkers of their valuable time/money

 

UpWorkers Be Warned!!

**Edited for Community Guidelines**

[feed_my_eyes]

The way that I ensure high activity is by typing notes whenever I'm doing something like reviewing materials or meeting with a client. 

[759e32fa]

Hi Dr. Matthew,

Thank you for reaching out to us. I can see that there is a support ticket regarding this issue and you are now being assisted by one of our agents. If you wish to update the team with new information, I highly suggest that you post it on the ticket thread. Otherwise, please refrain from creating new tickets and spamming the forum.

[c7ca65b1]

I had worked for a client on an hourly project. And it's got ended soon and I was going to get a total of 97$ and as I got that payment suddenly Upwork make a refund of 34$ back to client. And I don't understand why Upwork has done this to me. And in a mail to me Upwork says that the memos were not updated and it is not marked in Upwork Hourly Protection. It was a small piece of work so I don't updated the memos but that doesn't means that I haven't worked for client. I worked for client all the time that is recorded and submitted the file at the end to client in Upwork's chat. But still my payment was reversed I don't understand why Upwork is doing this to me.

And this is the second time in a row that my payment is reversed. I don't think that Upwork Platform is now safer for some new Freelancers like me as this was just my second job/contract on Upwork that I got after alot of struggle and at end of all my work I just get some payment from which Upwork reversed some amount.

When will Upwork stop doing this to me?

I am really stressed out at this time.

[ArjayM]

Hi Akkaz,

I'm sorry to hear about the unexpected refund that's been processed on your account. Please note that when the client fails to pay for hours logged by the freelancer, any hours that aren't covered by Upwork Hourly Protection may be reversed.

It looks like you were able to coordinate with the team via the email notification you received about this issue. You can also access the support ticket and communicate with the team on this page. We seek your patience and utmost understanding while we take care of this incident.

[c7ca65b1]

But all my hours were logged in according to the Upwork Hourly Protection and were recorded through the Upwork Desktop Time Tracker App. Just I have not updated memos in it as there was no requirement of any memos. So, I should have got all my payment. Now, kindly take a review into that and please give my payment back to me that is refunded.

[luckuye]

Hello. My name is Viktorija.

Last week my account was suspended because a client made a chargeback. I received an email from Upwork about it and I did everything they asked. Later on, The client wrote me on Upwork and told me there was a mix-up and the chargeback is canceled. Since I received the message from that client, I try to contact Upwork Support about it. But no one answered me on my ticket. I thought that I would try "Get Support", but all I get was a message that says "You already have an open ticket about this issue, you have to contact support on that ticket. " Of course, I try to write there, that client has canceled the chargeback, but till this day no one has messaged about anything. 

I looked up that Upwork will remove your suspension within 24-48 hours or will contact you. I understand that Upwork Support is very busy, but I have waited a week.

I have worked on Upwork for almost two years and everything I do is going through Upwork. 

Soon will be Christmas and I am afraid that, when my account will be available, my earnings will be removed... Upwork is the only place I earn my money. I tried very hard to get started on this platform and I succeeded. Now, I am just waiting and hoping that everything will be all right, but the longer Upwork Support take to answer me, the more hope is just vanishing... 

I want to know if someone has an experience with this and if someone has good thoughts on this one. 

[759e32fa]

Hi Viktorija,

Apologies for the delay as our support teams are currently experiencing a higher number of contacts than usual. Rest assured the team will address your concerns and questions in the ticket as soon as possible.

Please also avoid creating several tickets or posts for the same concern so that the team could assist you more efficiently. We seek your patience and utmost understanding while sorting this out for you. Thank you!

[adhanet_]

I'm so sorry to hear that, yes similar things have happened with me.

[luckuye]

What happened? Did you get your earnings back or did the client get money?

[adhanet_]

Something similar happened to me. Now I take Upworks payment protection as something for the client. I also let the client know that this is the case so I require more verification on them and their business. I also offer a really agreeable trial period so they can also feel secure. The good thing about scammers is they quickly remove themselves.

[adhanet_]

These stories are insane, thanks for posting

[junaidshahs]

I think this is a cybercrime & Upwork is also involved in it.
I will sue Upwork in the American court.

[junaidshahs]

I think this is a cybercrime & Upwork is also involved in it.
I will sue Upwork in the American court.

[luckuye]

Has this happened to you too? And why would you think that Upwork is in it too? 

From the start, I was thinking that this is the best platform where to work as a freelancer and earn money for yourself. I wouldn't think Upwork would be in it too. But now, as they answer me about my case and everything else, than I wouldn't disagree with you. 

[junaidshahs]

Hi,

Because the client says he never wants a payback, he didn't file a case in his bank for payback or receive any amount. Upwork blocked the client's account, soon after, he said he never filed a complaint.

Upwork was the best platform some years ago, but now the policies are severely against freelancers.

Every second, freelancers complain about payback.

Now, either the client lies or Upwork is involved in this cybercrime.

[NikolaS]

Hi Junaid,

This is a difficult situation and I understand your frustration. Some reversals (chargebacks) are a result of the client contacting their bank and asking them to reverse the payment.

In these cases, we look to our Terms of Service (TOS) for guidance and follow it by taking two steps:

1. We seek reimbursement from freelancers/agencies in cases where their client makes a payment, asks their bank to reverse it, and the bank does. (see more detail in sections 6.3-6.5 in our TOS).

2. We review the client’s Upwork account because reversing a payment, in most cases, is against our TOS and can result in us permanently suspending their Upwork account.

Aside from these steps, the Upwork team also helps the freelancer or agency challenge the reversal.

Our team can submit a rebuttal to the client’s bank on the freelancer’s behalf if they provide a proof of the work or deliverables. They would need to move quickly, so please provide the requested proof within 48 hours of being notified of the reversal if you’d like us to proceed. Keep in mind that it can take the bank up to 90 days to review and provide their final decision. The client’s bank will have the final say regarding the rebuttal and we have no control over the outcome.

Additionally, if you have further questions or need additional assistance feel free to follow up with our team directly on your support ticket and they will be happy to assist you further. 

[feed_my_eyes]

Why would Upwork be involved in a chargeback? In cases where there's a chargeback, Upwork doesn't get paid either, so they have nothing to gain from taking your money back. Don't you think it's more likely that your client is lying?

[ahmedabdallah09]

Hello everyone , i have just entered into an hourly contract, and you have verified that the customer Payment method is verified, But at the time of payment, I did not contact the client to make sure that everything is in order, but he did not respond.Then I entered our contract and found that the Payment method became unverified ، 

Does this mean that it is a quorum? 

And if it's a scam, will Upwork guarantee my money, and pay me for the number of hours? 

I've been using upwork time tracker for most of my work hours, only some of the few hours I've logged on Manual hour 

Please answer it in an explained way, thank you.

[feed_my_eyes]

If the client had a verified payment method when you started using the time tracker, and you used it properly, following all of the rules, then you'll get paid. You will not get paid for any manual time. Read more here: https://support.upwork.com/hc/en-us/articles/211068288-Hourly-Payment-Protection

[ahmedabdallah09]

Does this mean that only the number of manual hours will be deducted and I will be paid for the rest of the hour that I registered with time tracker 

Tracker or will all hours be deducted because I added some of them manually?

[feed_my_eyes]

I have no way of knowing whether you followed all of the payment protection rules or not - did you read the link that I gave you?

[ahmedabdallah09]

Yes, I have followed all the conditions (payment protection ), only some hours have been added manually. Will this affect the rest of the hours with (time tracker) or not?

[759e32fa]

Hi Ahmed,

Thank you for reaching out. Christine is correct, manual hours are not qualified for payment protection. Please refer to the article she provided.

I can see that you've already raised a support ticket regarding your concern. You can access your support tickets here. Note that support requests are responded to in the order they are received. Kindly allow 24-48 hours for the team to follow up with you and assist you further.

[ahmedabdallah09]

Does this mean that only the number of manual hours will be deducted and I will be paid for the rest of the hour that I registered with time tr

Tracker or will all hours be deducted because I added some of them manually

[evesion]

Hi, 

I worked for a client (fixed contract) and received my 150 dollar payment. A few days after the payment the contract was put on hold by upwork and a week later the contract was ended by upwork.

Now almost 2 weeks later the system/upwork made a refund for 41 dollar.  How is this possible?

Why 41 dollar?

What happened to upwork payment protection?

[759e32fa]

Hi Frank,

Thank you for reaching out. I can see that you've already raised a support ticket regarding your concern. You can access your support tickets here. Note that support requests are responded to in the order they are received. Kindly allow 24-48 hours for the team to follow up with you and assist you further.

[evesion]

Still waiting for support to get back to me.

[wlyonsatl]

Frank, There is no payment protection on fixed price projects. Upwork taking escrow might give you some comfort, but if the client used some else's credit card or asks his/her bank to reverse the charges, you will automatically give Upwork a "refund", which Upwork passes on to the credit card-issuing bank.

[evesion]

Here it says differently:

https://support.upwork.com/hc/en-us/articles/211062568-Upwork-Payment-Protection

Fixed-Price Protection for Freelancers and Agencies

• Your client deposits funds into escrow before you start working and you submit work for their approval
• Funds are automatically released to you 14 days from submission if your client does not approve the work or request changes
• You can file a dispute if your client refuses to release the payment for a completed milestone. See the Upwork Terms of Service and Fixed-Price Escrow Instructions for full terms and conditions.

[wlyonsatl]

Frank, Where does the text you quote say, " if the client used some else's credit card or asks his/her bank to reverse the charges, you will NOT automatically give Upwork a "refund", which Upwork passes on to the credit card-issuing bank?"

What do you think happens if the "client" has used someone else's credit card to pay Upwork on your behalf or the "client" instructs his/her credit card issuing bank to reverse the charge Upwork uses to pay you for your work?

[evesion]

Who says the client used somebody else his credit card? If that is the case and I am paying for that I want to see proof.

And what does payment protection than actually protect for? Also, we're not talking about an amount in escrow were talking about an amount that was paid out already.

And why 45 dollars?

If a bank refunds the money the will refund the full amount.

I can understand that some people above fell for a scam buying bitcoins. But this was a job transferring an e-commerce website from 1 server to another server. What best practices can I use to prevent this? This user had a work history and his payment was verified and the money was in escrow.

[wlyonsatl]

Frank,

The only way to ensure good payment from a client is to use hourly contracts and precisely follow the requirements for hourly payment protection.

If you don't use hourly contracts or don't use them properly, amounts already paid out to freelancers can be clawed back by Upwork:

Chargeback after completion of project succes... - Upwork Community

Re: Facing a huge problem due to chargeback - Upwork Community

Client chargeback request of $12,500 after on... - Page 2 - Upwork Community

Solved: Re: THIS CAN HAPPEN WITH ANYONE - Upwork Community

[the-right-writer]

Fixed price jobs are not evil. If they make sense for a freelancer, they should use it. Not every job is suitable for tracking. I believe it is far more important to talk to the client before anything is decided.

How many times do we see freelancers here upset because they lost everything in a scam because the time tracker wasn't recording the right number of keystrokes or mouse movements? There are no completely without-risk jobs. Talk/chat with the client, and use tracked or fixed price jobs correctly. Jobs should always be funded before the contract is accepted. Contact with the client about their objectives and goals for the project should be mandatory for every freelancer. If you don't communicate with the client, how do you know what they want?

The bottom line is that every freelancer needs to act like they just met this client in a random chat room. You don't know how they are, where they come from, their financial status, and most importantly, their intentions. Upwork has obligations, but making sure you are not scammed is not one of their responsibilities as written in the rules.

[vaskezz]

Hello,

I've been working with a client for a couple of months under hourly contract. Last week I worked with them I logged some hours and then was notified by Upwork that the client has some payment issues and the contract will be put on hold. Then while I was still waiting for the remaining payment for that last week of work, Upwork notified me again that I've issued a refund to the client.

To summarize: a freelancer who was working with the client and logged all hours in agreement with them had to wait for their money because of the client's payment issues, yet in the meantime Upwork deducted some amount (an amount that also makes no sense) from MY ACCOUNT and refunded the client who is responsible for not sorting out their payment issues in the first place.

What happened and why? I simply can't understand how could this be and by what logic? I keep getting default responses from Upwork support and I'm starting to think they're not able or willing to help. 

Very grateful in advance for any kind of reasonable explanation,

Vasja

[williamtcooper]

Hey Vasja, I can't speak to what Support is viewing and considering - you will need to wait to get an offical answer. However, it wouldn't be uncommon on Freelancer sites for a Client's payment to not work or for the Client to get removed from the respective platform. Again this may or may not be your specific issue, but instead is a broad based comment since you are seeking some thoughts while you wait for Support. Have a great day!